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My story and my choice: A skilled WoTB player who can't seem to fit in to WoT properly


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ArmoredMustelid #1 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 01:46

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Hello.

 

To introduce myself, I am pretty much a typical gamer who has been going around various games trying to keep myself in a good sense of enjoyment with whatever I can access that meets my interests. And those interests are looking for a neat military-themed game to play. And a great level of appreciation is applied to for when it's available for free as well.

 

I've played a lot of games like this for the past few years. My first F2P historical military-themed experience was with War Thunder back in the summer of 2013. Back then, I had a mid-range laptop that was a refurbished 2012 model with an AMD APU that I would play PC games on. Not the ideal machine for gaming as I would learn later on, but I made it work, and I used a lot of my free time on it whenever I could.

 

Anyways, I played War Thunder because I liked fighter planes, whether modern or WWII-era. I earned that interest thanks to a sort-of obscure video game franchise called Ace Combat and a really obscure simply-made WWII flight game from 2001 called Pearl Harbor: Zero Hour. Oh yeah, there's also the documentary series Dogfights too.

 

About a year after first playing WT, I met some people in a match who were, at the time, recruiting members for their clan. By then, I carefully made an decision that would benefit me in the future, joining a clan and have people to play WT with. This was a good decision for me because I have been pretty much lacking in being social my entire life, and realizing having someone or some people to play games with and to eventually call friends made me feel happy in a way that I didn't realize would happen then.

 

After getting my first experiences in playing games with other people in a connected community with, something new happened. WT was introducing American tanks. Now note that I said American tanks and not tanks in general; WT originally had Soviet and German tanks when the ground forces branch of the game went out of closed beta (this was quite obvious because the WT developers, Gaijin Entertainment, were Russian). However, I didn't decide to play WT ground forces until the American tanks came, mainly because I was kind of patriotic about my nationality *chuckles*.

 

After getting my first interesting taste of WT ground forces (which was made a bit more interesting as I was running a fever that made me feel pretty lightheaded), I took the though of World of Tanks into my mind (yes, I finally mentioned that). Now I have heard of World of Tanks prior to playing WT ground forces for the first time thanks to TV and maybe some online ads. However, I never considered playing WoT up until that point. I asked about playing to one of my WT buddies who was experienced in the game, and he said there should be some things to take into consideration. I also posted on the WT forum about it which you can find here: https://forum.warthu...world-of-tanks/ (Yes, I'm ACMDogfight1997, more into that in a moment.)

 

Eventually, I decided to give World of Tanks a shot and I can tell you that my first time playing the game was both weird and unsatisfying. My first game I can remember many details about my experience: I take a T1 Cunningham into a battle, the map is Malinovka (I can remember greatly because of the small field in between the team spawn points), the timer ends, I take off taking what I learned from WT ground forces at the time into this game, I run across the field, I get shot at by invisible enemies, I die, that's it. Honestly, I can't really blame myself for what I did and what it got me into because I didn't know what would happen. Eventually, my team lost. No worries, it's okay to lose, except when it happens 6 times in a row and lets remember that this is your first time playing.

:amazed:

 

As you can tell, my first experience in playing the game was not great, and it didn't seem that way for the rest of my time playing this game, great. Yet, I continued playing the game mainly because I wanted to play with my buddy who I played WT with and was experienced with WoT who wouldn't play with me in the latter until I got a tier 6 (later saying tier 7) because for what I assume he couldn't get one because vehicle slots were full and couldn't afford another or didn't feel like playing mid to low tier (btw, he personally calls the game World of [edited]; perhaps, based on my experiences, I wouldn't disagree either [sorry Wargaming]). Unfortunately, I never got the chance to play with him in WoT and I still don't know if I ever will.

 

The highest tier I've gotten in WoT is tier 6 which I have achieved in my first account, which goes under the same name in my WT account: ACMDogfight1997. I have a second account, Mustelidae, which I made a year after my first one after I felt like I need a refresh in the game. The account I'm making under this forum post now, I'll explain momentarily.

 

After making my second account, Mustelidae, I joined a clan on WoT which the people on were nice and were willing to accept me. I played some battles with them and even played clan wars with them once which we didn't win of course but it was nice to participate in something like that. Unfortunately, the clan, which that I'm technically still a part of on my second account, disbanded and moved on. However, before that, I found something while searching through the games on the Windows 10 App store that would ultimately give me a reason to stop playing WoT. And that was World of Tanks Blitz.

 

When I first opened up World of Tanks Blitz, I wasn't expecting much. However, after my first few battles, I was hooked to it. WoTB has some key differences compared to WoT: smaller match sizes, more hit-points on vehicles, no artillery; but I didn't realize that I would fit into this game much better than I did with WoT. Eventually, I favored this game over WoT greatly and abandoned the latter realizing that my true arcade tank game was not what I originally anticipated until I played this game.

 

So I abandoned WoT altogether to play WoTB. Great! But why am I making this?

 

Well you see, as much I as I like playing WoTB, for whatever reason, there's that feeling inside my head that made me realize that WoTB isn't perfect. That there were actually something about WoT that I can't explain make me feel like going back to it and get that unique feeling I can't get when playing WoTB. So I did, this time with my third account that I made when I first played WoTB, the one that I'm using now (now you know).

 

However, the first time going back to WoT, made me realize why I ditched it in the first place. So I did, but not until I grinded some early tier tanks. And, I came back, again, and left it, again. And I came back, yet again, and this time it felt different. For the first time, I felt satisfied playing the game when I was sniping with the T56. This was 3 days ago.

 

Eventually, I got hooked in to playing World of Tanks, not World of Tanks Blitz, which is something I didn't see coming. After grinding the T56, I played the M3 Lee, which if you may not have heard is possibly one of the worst, if not, the worst tank in World of Tanks. I don't remember having any problems playing the Lee in WoTB, but in WoT, I can see why a lot of people hate it. I was having trouble playing games with it too, but I sort of got around when I finished grinding it leaving with just a 1.04 damage ratio. But I didn't realize my real troubles until after I started playing the M4 Sherman today.

 

My first battle in this thing was actually pretty good. I got a lot of damage in a down tier round with Tier IVs and even though I died and the team lost, it was still good for me. But as I kept playing it, the battles I would get would not even be close to what I achieved in my first battle playing the Sherman. I would keep dying and dying without dealing enough damage to break even (dealing more damage than the amount of hit points your vehicle has) and as a result, my damage ratio dropped below 1.0 and I kept playing battles to try and get it above 1.0, yet, it didn't improve and as of now, it stands at 0.62.

 

At this point, which led me to make this forum post, I questioned about what my future with World of Tanks is. And I know that's a silly question to ask but let me give you some insights into why I'm so disappointing in this game. You see, I abandoned playing WoT to start playing WoTB is because, in the latter, I was actually really good in it. If you don't believe me, here are the statistics of my profile in WoT and WoTB respectively. Feel free to look up the statistics for each in whatever website you like:

 

ArmoredMustelid in WoT

ArmoredMustelid in WoTB

 

As you can see, my performance stats in WoT are nothing in compared to what they are in WoTB, In the latter, I'm actually really good whereas in the former, I don't stand out from the crowd. I've considered myself a better fit for WoTB than I do from WoT, but after playing the latter recently and received a feeling like I have never felt before in it, now, I put that statement into serious questioning. I could just quit WoT and go back to playing WoTB exclusively again (as well as play some WT which I still do nowadays), but, as you see from what I said before, history repeats itself. What makes me put into bigger questioning is whether I'll enjoy WoT ever?

 

These are questions that are too difficult for me to decide alone. And because of that, I post this long-[edited]thread explaining my history and what issues I'm dealing with in this game and what I should do about it. All this took me a few precious hours to type just so you would know so don't make me feel like I typed it for nothing. I honestly don't know what it is about this game and I ask you guys, the community, to help me decide my answers. Thanks.

 

Some things to mention before I leave:

  • I play WoTB on PC and only on PC; I don't plan to play it on a phone.
  • Games I've also played are World of Warplanes, World of Warships, and Armored Warfare.
  • The guy I played WT with who also plays WoT has not seems to have played the former anymore in the past few months or so and I also haven't had contact with him for months yet I still find him online on discord sometimes, the question if I ever will soon is...

 

...maybe ;)



Silversound #2 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 01:59

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+1 for best post of the day.

CodyJW #3 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 02:06

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Hi,

 

 - Well, honestly, getting to Tier 6 is not very far into the game. You probably chose a Bad Line and the tank sucked, or maybe you did (because you were new of course). I think it takes more than a few hundred battles and high tier tanks to make you have a Final Decision. I have played this game for 6 Years and am still going strong on this account. My first account was (iowaswarm), but i did not like it because the name was my dads Fantasy Football team name (he made the account). In 2016 i quit WoT because my PC was bad. I just recently returned to the same group of people in BOND and i am playing hard again. 

 

- Point is, i think that you went up a Bad Line and got rekt against more experienced players. I was terrible and still am, but u still play with a Top 40 Clan (which i was once in and soon will be again) so that i can learn more about the game aswell as make friends. I do not enjoy playing Alone in this game unless im grinding a Tank. Maybe you can come back and give this game another go someday, because Wargaming focusses on this game more than others, and the new graphics are much better than War Thunder. 

 

Thanks for reading, Merican



BlackwaterXe #4 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 02:18

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If you're not having fun, don't force yourself to play WoT. It'll just ruin your mood. Go play whatever you're good at or have the most fun in. Drinking games are always a good alternative---you win no matter what.

Elevendy #5 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 02:19

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Most of the real fun and challenging gameplay is at tier 7+.

Drone157 #6 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 02:32

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I'd like to know what your experience in War Thunder was like. As you may have noticed these two games are very different. Almost none of the skills in one carry to the other.

 

WOT is a very simple game on the surface (IE. just drive around and shoot red tanks) But it has a very deep learning curve beyond that. Just the spotting/camo system alone takes time to learn and perfect.

Here's a couple reasons you may be better on Blitz than the regular game

  • Blitz is teams of 7, WoT is teams of 15 (your contributions have less impact with larger teams)
  • Blitz has no arty, WoT does (Your positioning is more important and fragile)
  • Your Blitz account has higher tiers than your WoT account (gameplay is vastly different between low tiers and the rest) I'm actually terrible at anything below tier 5.
  • I believe Blitz has a different crew system, so your tanks start better than WoT (Your stock grinds are easier in Blitz)

Just a few off the top of my head, the team size is the biggest difference though. Your contribution is basically cut in half as far as effect on the battle goes.

 

World of Tanks is not something you can jump in and be good at, the amount of information you need to learn is much higher.

 

I'm very happy with this game and have played it for years. The main reason is there's always something new to learn. My biggest advice is to not compare your stats to others, the game is about knowledge more than reaction or skill, it's something you teach yourself to get better rather than practice for muscle memory. Treat it like a subject for learning and you'll have a much easier time.



dave1y #7 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 03:01

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I'm a little confused.

 

In the one and only battle you had in your T1 Cunningham you got 11 kills for a wn8 rating of 16,267.  The rest of that account (ArmoredMustelid) has perfectly good stats for a WoT noob.  So I'm not sure what you're having problems with other than the realization that Blitz is more fun for you.  If you're wondering if you're missing something in regular WoT, don't.  If it doesn't start out as a cool, fun game, than things will not improve when you start a serious grind for your first tier 10.


 

I'll tell you this, WoT is interesting to me because of its quirks and complications.  You should try it for more than a few hundred battles.  A good tier 8 with a 4 skill crew would be nice, too.


Edited by dave1y, Apr 05 2018 - 03:02.


mrmojo #8 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 03:03

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"I took what on learned on WT and ran across the open field on Malinovka" and died.

What did WT teach you?

LAPPELduvide #9 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 03:04

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To begin with, WoTB to WoT doesn’t transition well; really they’re different games with completely different metas and playstyles, and most of all no arty. I mean even for me, stats don’t carry over at all. So I mean considering you’re an average WoTB sealclubber it’s no wonder it’s even more difficult for you to transition to WoT

ArmoredMustelid #10 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 03:10

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View Postdave1y, on Apr 05 2018 - 03:01, said:

I'm a little confused.

 

In the one and only battle you had in your T1 Cunningham you got 11 kills for a wn8 rating of 16,267.  The rest of that account (ArmoredMustelid) has perfectly good stats for a WoT noob.  So I'm not sure what you're having problems with other than the realization that Blitz is more fun for you.  If you're wondering if you're missing something in regular WoT, don't.  If it doesn't start out as a cool, fun game, than things will not improve when you start a serious grind for your first tier 10.


 

I'll tell you this, WoT is interesting to me because of its quirks and complications.  You should try it for more than a few hundred battles.  A good tier 8 with a 4 skill crew would be nice, too.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot, I used up the training battles which were included in the stats.

ArmoredMustelid #11 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 03:13

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View Postmrmojo, on Apr 05 2018 - 03:03, said:

"I took what on learned on WT and ran across the open field on Malinovka" and died.

What did WT teach you?

 

I don't know. It was a long time ago, times have changed. I should've disassociate those two lines.

hellheaven1987 #12 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 04:12

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I think people need to play at least 5000 games first before judging this game.

Drone157 #13 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 04:30

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View Posthellheaven1987, on Apr 04 2018 - 22:12, said:

I think people need to play at least 5000 games first before judging this game.

 

I believe this is the crux of the issue in World of Tanks.

 

Think about it, what other game do you need to spend 5,000 matches (apr. 600 hours) before you're considered experienced?

At 200 hours in Playerunknown's, I felt I had a pretty good grasp of the game, it's mechanics, and whether or not I found it fun.

That would only give you about 1,500 battles in world of tanks, which is still easily considered a NEWB. It's a big risk for new players due to the time investment, is it worth playing all this time for a game that MAY be fun at the higher tiers?

 

Wargaming have stated they're rebalancing the game from top to bottom. We've seen some of that with the tier 10 shuffle, hopefully they start getting to the rest of the tiers soon, though I'd expect that to take place around the end of 2019.

 

At this moment I don't think there is a fix, but this is probably a big reason many new players don't make it past 500 battles.



NewportReb #14 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 05:08

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Welcome back to WoT,

 

So here is my take. First off I don't think anyone is ever done learning in this game. Hell I am still learning the ins and outs of this game. Someone said it takes 5000 games to not be a noob. I disagree. There are multiple stages of learning in this game. First you start off learning to pen tanks, block damage, and set up your tanks and crews. Then you learn map knowledge and how to exploit the strengths and hide the weakness of your tank on map xyz in tank _______. Then you start learning how to read team comps for both you and the enemy team and how to "carry" the match and all of these steps are just a quick overview. There are many more steps in between those. Finally nothing replaces experience. My question to you is how high do you want to go in this game? Do you want to do CW's and win tanks? Do you just enjoy pubbing around? 

 

Whatever you want to do in game, there is corresponding "work" that you got to put in. If you want to play cws, you need to gain proficiency in high tiers, grind the necessary tanks that are used in cw fights and have good crews in them. You also really need to know the maps so the callers don't have to explain everything to you in the middle of a battle. But hey maybe you don't want to do all the bs that cw clans typically have to do and you just want to pub it and shoot tanks. That's fine as well. There are a ton of social clans on the NA server. Just go to the recruitment section of the forums, find a clan that seems fun, talk to them, and if you get in and its a fit, make new friends to blow crapup with. 

 

At the end of the day this game is a marathon not a sprint. You wont become a good player over night. You need to work on your ability to play well and eventually, depending on how much work you put in, you should get there. There are many ways to learn but might I suggest playing with better players, and when you mess up, ask them what they would do differently. Or if you die early and are playing solo, watch a good player and see what he/she does instead of just hitting exit and going to your next battle. If you have questions message them. They might be an [edited]and say go away, but chances are they might also help you out and take time to help you understand. If they are an [edited]...oh well block them and move on with your life. You aren't any worse off then you were a minute ago.

 

Hope this helps and good luck tanking.



hellheaven1987 #15 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 05:44

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View PostNewportReb, on Apr 05 2018 - 05:08, said:

Someone said it takes 5000 games to not be a noob. I disagree.

 

I would rather say 5000 games is just a milestone of finishing basic training and ready to enter tier 8; the issue of tier 8+ match is that tank line after tier 8 become vastly diverse so it is absolutly necessary to learn your tank and enemy's tanks well in order to be competitive. 5000 game also often is the time when player finally understand what his best playstyle is and should be time to choose his future tank line basing on that.

Edited by hellheaven1987, Apr 05 2018 - 05:45.


Haruhi_Suzumiya_ #16 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 05:52

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World of Tanks is one of the most difficult games to master for a game that isn't based around competitiveness like LoL or Dota or anything of the sort. It's okay to feel inadequate here, I still do even though I easily have over 4,000+ hours. 

 

If you have the time, take a look at the Options and Game Mechanics columns in the wiki for clearing your doubts or learning something you never knew. I know it firsthand. 

http://wiki.wargamin.../World_of_Tanks

For a closer look at tank armor models and their statistics go here

https://tanks.gg./

News

https://thearmoredpa...world-of-tanks/



ArmoredMustelid #17 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 14:28

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I appreciate all the responses you people have given me. I guess World of Tanks is not what I thought it was and turned out to be something else. As for what I would do next, well, there's many choices for me of what I would do in the game or for it. For now, I've got some work outside of gaming to do that's due shortly. But keep it coming with the advice if any of you have any just to keep this an active discussion.

OwenGlendower #18 Posted Apr 05 2018 - 18:33

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You got lots of good replies. The bottom line is: WoT is *hard*. Oh, the basic mechanics of pew-pew-die are absurdly easy. It doesn't take much hand-eye coordination.

 

But here's the thing: you see lots and lots of players with 20, 30, 50, 70 thousand games, and sometimes more. Most folks do 6-8 battles per hour. You do the math as to how many manhours that is. There are countless stories of "I played, I got frustrated, I quit, I came back, I played, I got frustrated, I quit, I came back...". WoT is uniquely rewarding and compelling. The very richness, and the difficulty of mastering that richness, is what makes the game so rewarding to so many for so long.

 

To get to the point where it's really rewarding requires a considerable investment in time, and maybe in money.

 

If I could offer one tip it would be: don't rush up the tiers. Having your highest tier be no more than 1/1000 your number of battles is a good plan (maybe not for Tier I nowadays). In other words, stay in Tier I/II until 2,000 battles, Tier III until 3,000, etc. That way you will gain experience, be able to buy equipment (important), and get your crews trained up. 



Da_Craw #19 Posted Apr 10 2018 - 22:14

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View PostOwenGlendower, on Apr 05 2018 - 11:33, said:

You got lots of good replies. The bottom line is: WoT is *hard*. Oh, the basic mechanics of pew-pew-die are absurdly easy. It doesn't take much hand-eye coordination.

 

But here's the thing: you see lots and lots of players with 20, 30, 50, 70 thousand games, and sometimes more. Most folks do 6-8 battles per hour. You do the math as to how many manhours that is. There are countless stories of "I played, I got frustrated, I quit, I came back, I played, I got frustrated, I quit, I came back...". WoT is uniquely rewarding and compelling. The very richness, and the difficulty of mastering that richness, is what makes the game so rewarding to so many for so long.

 

To get to the point where it's really rewarding requires a considerable investment in time, and maybe in money.

 

If I could offer one tip it would be: don't rush up the tiers. Having your highest tier be no more than 1/1000 your number of battles is a good plan (maybe not for Tier I nowadays). In other words, stay in Tier I/II until 2,000 battles, Tier III until 3,000, etc. That way you will gain experience, be able to buy equipment (important), and get your crews trained up. 

 

How fast to advance is a constant debate.  I'm in the camp that says get to tiers 4-5 as fast as reasonable and then slow down.  Mainly because of the cancer that is the Pz. Ic.  Tiers II and III are a wasteland of confused people getting farmed by seal clubbers in asinine armored go-carts.  Nobody is learning anything there.

jeffy_19 #20 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 09:33

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I'll mostly echo what some of the others have said.

 

  • No matter how good you are, your success depends a fair amount on 2 dozen random strangers. Win/Loss in a few games (anything less than 100 is "a few" in WOT) is irrelevant. Do you feel that you played well? This is part of the reason a lot of serious players run XVM (which you can see in the forum sig's).
  • To be really good at this game you have to internalise a LOT of info - penetration, camo, armour angling, map locations, etc. Read up, or watch YouTube videos to learn about the tanks you are interested in, or are having trouble fighting
  • Don't rush up the lines, but maybe aim to get fairly quickly to tier IV. You'll get to see more conventionally patterened battles (i.e., with some heavy tanks and fewer light tanks), and avoid the worst worst seal clubbers. Hanging around tiers IV and V until you have several thousand battles is a good idea. You'll gain experience and credits.  The game gets much more 'expensive' after tier V





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