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Change focus of game to WWII vehicles


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GrandMasterRaziel #1 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 16:07

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I've seen a lot of threads about the problems with WoT being Matchmaker or artillery or some other thing.  While I certainly wouldn't mind being top-tier in matches more often and being killed by artillery less often, I don't think those are the main problem with the game.

Instead, I think the main problem with WoT is an over-emphasis on high-tier vehicles.  This wouldn't be a problem if the scope of the game's tiers didn't extend so much into vehicles built in the 50's and 60's, but they do, and that's a problem.  It's a problem because the most glamorous period for tank warfare was World War II, and I think it's probably pretty accurate to state that most of the people who try WoT are initially drawn by the allure of the idea of controlling their favorite WWII tanks.

Unfortunately, WWII-era tanks are generally tiers 4-6, with a very few making it into tiers 7 and 8.  Most tier 8+ vehicles are postwar vehicles.  This has a tendency to make the WWII vehicles waypoints on the grind up rather than destination vehicles.  One has to grind up to tier 10 to unlock many of the game's play modes, and also people tend to want to grind up to the point where they're not apt to be bottom-tier all the time.  This tends to make using the WWII vehicles a disappointing experience, as rather than matching up against other WWII vehicles, you're apt to be playing them against postwar vehicles with many decided advantages over them.

WoT has exacerbated the above situation by releasing an overabundance of Tier 8 premium vehicles.  People play their tier 8 premiums because they paid money for them (for the most part), and because those tanks are good credit-earners.  Unfortunately, this tends to inflate tier 8 in the pool MM has to select from, which skews how often tier 6-7 vehicles get to be top tier, which skews the playing experience of the WWII vehicles.

Wargaming has spent a lot of time with their focus on the postwar vehicles, so this is not a situation they'll be able to correct all at once.  However, there are a lot of steps the company can take.  They could start by buffing the earning and XP generation of tier 4-6 vehicles.  If those vehicles earn more than their higher-tier counterparts, players will tend to spend more time playing them, both to earn credits and train crews.  The company could also start releasing more mid-tier premium vehicles with earning multipliers to make them more attractive than their tier 8 counterparts.  

I'd also like to see WoT have some play modes specifically for WWII vehicles.  Most especially, I'd like a play mode where teams are put together from single nations, so one could have games that resemble actual WWII battles at least a little, rather than jumbling various nations' vehicles together into one team, they way MM currently does.

I think if Wargaming did these things, WoT would be a more enjoyable gaming experience, and would attract and retain more players than it currently does.

dave1y #2 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 16:14

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They tried that already.  Big failure. Sorry.

 

https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/general-news/historical-battles-9-0/


Edited by dave1y, Apr 11 2018 - 16:15.


GrandMasterRaziel #3 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 16:25

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I only needed to look at that for a few seconds before seeing how it was doomed to fail from the get-go.  Way too restrictive.

Dockmaster #4 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 16:27

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WoT staff in the early days wouldn't even consider the M60 as it was too modern.

 

I guess staying true to the WWII era was not in the best interest of WG's bottom line.

 

What is next? I bet it will be wheeled vehicles which they also swore they would never do.



xrays_ #5 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 16:30

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View PostGrandMasterRaziel, on Apr 11 2018 - 10:07, said:

It's a problem because the most glamorous period for tank warfare was World War II, and I think it's probably pretty accurate to state that most of the people who try WoT are initially drawn by the allure of the idea of controlling their favorite WWII tanks.

 

Honestly, I came to this game because it was a multi-person, arcade-style, first-person, strategy game that involves heavy machinery (i.e. tanks, guns, explosions, etc.). I couldn't care less about the historical representations or accuracy, as I care more about the balance of power between the teams fighting each other.

 

What you're suggesting sounds more like a complaint from a player that hasn't learned how to play properly and wishes all the tanks he/she doesn't like would be nerved or removed. If you don't like Tier VIII - X gameplay, don't play those tanks - it's pretty simple. Asking for a game to change, almost completely, to suit your own personal desires is pathetic.

 

x.



BattlecryGWJ #6 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 17:05

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Sounds like you're looking for a different game.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Personally, while I wouldn't mind some kind of campaign modes to run various historically based missions in, I don't really need a reason to play the WWII era tanks more.  The M4, Tiger II, IS and KV-1 are some of my most played tanks and they are some of the more profitable non-premium tanks, but I don't see a reason or a need to devalue the high tier content as you seem to be requesting.  The play is different at different tiers and there are different reasons to play at different tiers.  I enjoy the variety available in the game.



IntenseTanker #7 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 17:30

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View Postxrays_, on Apr 11 2018 - 10:30, said:

 

Honestly, I came to this game because it was a multi-person, arcade-style, first-person, strategy game that involves heavy machinery (i.e. tanks, guns, explosions, etc.). I couldn't care less about the historical representations or accuracy, as I care more about the balance of power between the teams fighting each other.

 

What you're suggesting sounds more like a complaint from a player that hasn't learned how to play properly and wishes all the tanks he/she doesn't like would be nerved or removed. If you don't like Tier VIII - X gameplay, don't play those tanks - it's pretty simple. Asking for a game to change, almost completely, to suit your own personal desires is pathetic.

 

x.

You're always quite the ego maniac on the forums whwnever I see you. Someone slap you to hard in the olden days?



Red_Ensign #8 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 17:33

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View Postxrays_, on Apr 11 2018 - 09:30, said:

 

Asking for a game to change, almost completely, to suit your own personal desires is pathetic.

 

x.

 

every arty thread says hi

xrays_ #9 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 17:37

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View PostIntenseTanker, on Apr 11 2018 - 11:30, said:

You're always quite the ego maniac on the forums whwnever I see you. Someone slap you to hard in the olden days?

 

I don't think you know the definition of the word (single word) "egomaniac". I stated my opinions, including those about a player that thinks the game should be constrained to fit his/her ideals - I wonder who's the egotist in this thread?

 

x.



Viper69 #10 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 18:05

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You can always set up private matches and see how well historical battles would be and how really unbalanced some vehicles are when matched historically.

ckupf #11 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 18:23

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WW2 as tiers 4-6? That's not accurate at all. Tiger I and Tiger II are tiers 7 and 8, T95 is a WW2 prototype at T9. Maus was also a WW2 prototype at T10. There are not a lot of post WW2 tanks, and most of them are MBT included in the game as mediums, or modified/updated WW2 designs. Sure you have the Leopard 1, M48, and Centurion, but you also have the E50, E100 variants, T92, and Type 5.

tod914 #12 Posted Apr 11 2018 - 18:49

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That's what training rooms are for.  Come up with a format for a WW2 match.  Then post when you'll be hosting it. Shouldn't be too hard to fill a match.

pepe_trueno #13 Posted Apr 12 2018 - 02:36

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View PostDockmaster, on Apr 11 2018 - 16:27, said:

WoT staff in the early days wouldn't even consider the M60 as it was too modern.

 

I guess staying true to the WWII era was not in the best interest of WG's bottom line.

 

What is next? I bet it will be wheeled vehicles which they also swore they would never do.

 

in the past years they have been doing quite a lot of powercreep so is not surprising they keep pushing the line, at this rate in some distant future we will have the ratte as a playable tank :sceptic:

GrandMasterRaziel #14 Posted Apr 12 2018 - 22:02

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View Postckupf, on Apr 11 2018 - 17:23, said:

WW2 as tiers 4-6? That's not accurate at all. Tiger I and Tiger II are tiers 7 and 8, T95 is a WW2 prototype at T9. Maus was also a WW2 prototype at T10. There are not a lot of post WW2 tanks, and most of them are MBT included in the game as mediums, or modified/updated WW2 designs. Sure you have the Leopard 1, M48, and Centurion, but you also have the E50, E100 variants, T92, and Type 5.

 

There are definitely outliers, and those aren't the only ones.  The Pershing is a tier 8 medium, for instance.  There are also some mid-tier tanks that were postwar designs - some of the French light tanks, for instance.  However, most lines have the bulk of their most commonly-used WWII vehicles in the middle-tiers.  It's true that the Tigers 1 and 2 are upper tier, but the most widely produced German WWII tank was the Pz IV.

 

That said, I would thing higher-tier play would be improved by more of a focus on mid-tier.  With more players in the pool playing mid-tiers, there would be more likelihood tier 7-8 vehicles would wind up top tier in matches, instead of bottom tier to tier 9-10 vehicles.

 

To be clear, I'm not suggesting anything be nerfed.  I'm not even suggesting the performance of mid-tier vehicles be buffed.  What I am suggesting is that mid-tier vehicles be made more attractive to play by way of improving their credit earning, and maybe their XP earning as well - or possibly just their crew XP earning, so as not to overly accelerate the grind.  Higher tier non-premium vehicles already aren't the most ideal credit earners.  My idea is to make mid-tier vehicles earn credits about as well as high-tier premiums, and to make mid-tier premiums superior credit earners, to make playing mid-tier more attractive.

As for a historical mode - I knew that was a Hail Mary when I suggested it.  I imagine the wait time would be restrictive unless this was a much more popular game than it currently is.



Realign #15 Posted Apr 12 2018 - 22:10

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Pretty sure there's some nearly dead game or two out there that is more historically accurate.  Should probably check them out.  NA should not have any additional battle modes- our player base is too small to separate.  Already MM breaks down and does less attractive things compared to EU.

hootie274 #16 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 02:13

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View PostGrandMasterRaziel, on Apr 11 2018 - 10:07, said:

I've seen a lot of threads about the problems with WoT being Matchmaker or artillery or some other thing.  While I certainly wouldn't mind being top-tier in matches more often and being killed by artillery less often, I don't think those are the main problem with the game.

Instead, I think the main problem with WoT is an over-emphasis on high-tier vehicles.  This wouldn't be a problem if the scope of the game's tiers didn't extend so much into vehicles built in the 50's and 60's, but they do, and that's a problem.  It's a problem because the most glamorous period for tank warfare was World War II, and I think it's probably pretty accurate to state that most of the people who try WoT are initially drawn by the allure of the idea of controlling their favorite WWII tanks.

Unfortunately, WWII-era tanks are generally tiers 4-6, with a very few making it into tiers 7 and 8.  Most tier 8+ vehicles are postwar vehicles.  This has a tendency to make the WWII vehicles waypoints on the grind up rather than destination vehicles.  One has to grind up to tier 10 to unlock many of the game's play modes, and also people tend to want to grind up to the point where they're not apt to be bottom-tier all the time.  This tends to make using the WWII vehicles a disappointing experience, as rather than matching up against other WWII vehicles, you're apt to be playing them against postwar vehicles with many decided advantages over them.

WoT has exacerbated the above situation by releasing an overabundance of Tier 8 premium vehicles.  People play their tier 8 premiums because they paid money for them (for the most part), and because those tanks are good credit-earners.  Unfortunately, this tends to inflate tier 8 in the pool MM has to select from, which skews how often tier 6-7 vehicles get to be top tier, which skews the playing experience of the WWII vehicles.

Wargaming has spent a lot of time with their focus on the postwar vehicles, so this is not a situation they'll be able to correct all at once.  However, there are a lot of steps the company can take.  They could start by buffing the earning and XP generation of tier 4-6 vehicles.  If those vehicles earn more than their higher-tier counterparts, players will tend to spend more time playing them, both to earn credits and train crews.  The company could also start releasing more mid-tier premium vehicles with earning multipliers to make them more attractive than their tier 8 counterparts.  

I'd also like to see WoT have some play modes specifically for WWII vehicles.  Most especially, I'd like a play mode where teams are put together from single nations, so one could have games that resemble actual WWII battles at least a little, rather than jumbling various nations' vehicles together into one team, they way MM currently does.

I think if Wargaming did these things, WoT would be a more enjoyable gaming experience, and would attract and retain more players than it currently does.

 

actually i would like to see nation vs nation battles but not historical... and seperate modern and ww2 tanks mode and/or a less arcade style mode like in armored aces and warthunder, but over all the game is good as it currently is, its not perfect but its good.... play warthunder and u might be coming back..... i know i did. left for a bit and now i'm back here more cuz its a bit more fun and a bit less frustrating when it comes to tanks

Edited by hootie274, Apr 16 2018 - 02:14.


DoNutDestroyer #17 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 03:03

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View Postxrays_, on Apr 11 2018 - 17:37, said:

 

I don't think you know the definition of the word (single word) "egomaniac". I stated my opinions, including those about a player that thinks the game should be constrained to fit his/her ideals - I wonder who's the egotist in this thread?

 

x.

 

You stated your opinions, and so did he.  He wasn't demanding the game change to suit him, just stating his opinion as to what could make the game for enjoyable for people who would like a historic type game.  A lot of people feel that way, as I do, but we have what we have and we play it or don't.  It isn't pathetic to have an opinion.




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