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War Gaming needs to fix this always bottom tier problem

bottom tier always bottom tier match making wargaming problems fix match making

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toesave #61 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 15:09

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View PostCiabhan, on Apr 23 2019 - 13:44, said:

 

You're arguing under the logical fallacy that all tiers have equal numbers of players.  You would be correct if that were the case.  But it isn't.  Instead you have(for example) 150 players at tier 4, 800 at tier 5, 175 at tier 6, 200 at 7, 1600 at 8, 800 at 9, and 500 at 10.  This inevitably changes the math.  The match maker can't match MOST of the tier 8s against lower tiers so they are forced to play higher tiers more often.  Same goes for tier 5 in this example.

 

Damnit feel for the necro.

 

as I understand it..   a major factor in the MM scheme  of things is to keep the wait time to an absolute minimum...   if they felt we'd be okay with a 5 or 6 minute wait... maybe then we would all just face the same tier,,   I do not want to wait....  I will take MM the way it is or was for that matter...  it is not the issue.. the players are the issue..  everyone wants to win or blame MM for the loss...   

we need to play the tank we picked to the best possible conclusion...  with the MM we now have or had or will have,  it is what it is,  the key is to do the best you can be while playing the cards we were dealt 



Ciabhan #62 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 15:32

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View Posttoesave, on Apr 23 2019 - 09:09, said:

 

as I understand it..   a major factor in the MM scheme  of things is to keep the wait time to an absolute minimum...   if they felt we'd be okay with a 5 or 6 minute wait... maybe then we would all just face the same tier,,   I do not want to wait....  I will take MM the way it is or was for that matter...  it is not the issue.. the players are the issue..  everyone wants to win or blame MM for the loss...   

we need to play the tank we picked to the best possible conclusion...  with the MM we now have or had or will have,  it is what it is,  the key is to do the best you can be while playing the cards we were dealt 

 

I think maybe some of the upswing in the complaint is the continuing power creep.  For instance, I'm grinding through the Centurion 1 now.  It's outmatched by almost all the new tier 8 premiums and a large portion of the new tech tree as well, the proliferation of gold ammo renders it's turret armor useless, the poor dispersion makes it a crappy sniper.  It's not much fun to play.  All of the good things about it have been long overshadowed by gameplay changes and power creep.  The only thing it has in the plus column that it hasn't lost is pretty good pen and damage for it's tier.  Great if you could actually hit things from a decent range.  But as a bottom tier tank you have tier 9s and 10s eat it alive.  Then if the enemy tier 8s are mostly(which is the norm now) in meta premiums, go karts, Russian crap you can't pen(unless they're nice enough to sit flank on to you) and French auto-loading(fast td) lights.  You just get circled by something with loads more burst/dpm and die.  A few years ago you could sit in the second line, hull down and help the team with some supporting fire, but not so much anymore.  Not fun. 

 

And the pay-off even when it's done is mediocre at best as well for similar reasons.  


Edited by Ciabhan, Apr 23 2019 - 15:34.


Pepino1976 #63 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 15:51

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I think the newest MM has fixed the bottom Tier issue, especially for Tier VIIIs. I now often am in a lot of same Tier games or 1 Tier games. I get all the other MMs more then the dreaded 3-5-7 when you are in the bottom. Good job, War Gaming.

 



SargeanTravis #64 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 16:29

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View PostPepino1976, on Apr 23 2019 - 15:51, said:

I think the newest MM has fixed the bottom Tier issue, especially for Tier VIIIs. I now often am in a lot of same Tier games or 1 Tier games. I get all the other MMs more then the dreaded 3-5-7 when you are in the bottom. Good job, War Gaming.

 

 

And if it's a tier 3 spread it's not exactly 3/5/7, and often I end up being middle tier

zalrod #65 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 17:26

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I don’t have any problem with the match making, and being bottom tier is also helpful...no you can’t go head-on with the big boys...you have to learn to do something else, like flanking or bum rush the tank who is vulnerable by his location. These are lessons that players need to learn, but aren’t really taught well to new players. For myself, I much rather be bottom or near bottom of my team list. But that all depends on play style...myself I try to win when I play. It’s more enjoyable when you win then when you lose. Now some of my teammates...I’ not too sure what they want to accomplish when playing. But I don’t see their screen so I have no idea....

toesave #66 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 17:42

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View PostMFGrant, on Apr 11 2018 - 21:29, said:

 

Best not to point out the obvious around here

 

one should not allow themselves to point out major flaws in this game..   they do not want anyone to know they messed up....

toesave #67 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 18:16

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View PostCiabhan, on Apr 23 2019 - 14:32, said:

 

I think maybe some of the upswing in the complaint is the continuing power creep.  For instance, I'm grinding through the Centurion 1 now.  It's outmatched by almost all the new tier 8 premiums and a large portion of the new tech tree as well, the proliferation of gold ammo renders it's turret armor useless, the poor dispersion makes it a crappy sniper.  It's not much fun to play.  All of the good things about it have been long overshadowed by gameplay changes and power creep.  The only thing it has in the plus column that it hasn't lost is pretty good pen and damage for it's tier.  Great if you could actually hit things from a decent range.  But as a bottom tier tank you have tier 9s and 10s eat it alive.  Then if the enemy tier 8s are mostly(which is the norm now) in meta premiums, go karts, Russian crap you can't pen(unless they're nice enough to sit flank on to you) and French auto-loading(fast td) lights.  You just get circled by something with loads more burst/dpm and die.  A few years ago you could sit in the second line, hull down and help the team with some supporting fire, but not so much anymore.  Not fun. 

 

And the pay-off even when it's done is mediocre at best as well for similar reasons.  

 

well here is the issue.. if we continue to play that tank..  then WG will be okay..   why do we play tanks we do not like..  are you after the tier 10 in this line is it "the tank to own" if yes then suffer thru.. if not then move along to another..  I see a lot of the centurion 1's around.  I dropped the line at tier 7 comet.  forgot why... so they may be better then you find them...  not a bash just a point of interest,, this clan was talking of all the benefits of the Cromwell  I hate that tank I even bought the prem. just to be sure..  and yes I do not like it either...   for what I use that tank for it does not meet my expectations,,,     I used it for t-6 skirms and it let me down...  my chi to has a better chance to hit something I fully aimed at.... but that is me and how I play it.   

 

I want in on the wheelies  I wonder if they are like arty... we hate them in our battle, unless we are playing one ..lol  however I can not stand the amx elc at all,,, got thru it once and it was painful will not play it again ever,, I will just buy a prem when they come out..   put my order in  i'd like to buy one wheeled tank please..  a 6 or an 8 would be perfect,,  throw in some other stuff I have money and I am very motivated 



Ciabhan #68 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 20:08

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View Posttoesave, on Apr 23 2019 - 12:16, said:

 

well here is the issue.. if we continue to play that tank..  then WG will be okay..   why do we play tanks we do not like..  are you after the tier 10 in this line is it "the tank to own" if yes then suffer thru.. if not then move along to another..  I see a lot of the centurion 1's around.  I dropped the line at tier 7 comet.  forgot why... so they may be better then you find them...  not a bash just a point of interest,, this clan was talking of all the benefits of the Cromwell  I hate that tank I even bought the prem. just to be sure..  and yes I do not like it either...   for what I use that tank for it does not meet my expectations,,,     I used it for t-6 skirms and it let me down...  my chi to has a better chance to hit something I fully aimed at.... but that is me and how I play it.   

 

I want in on the wheelies  I wonder if they are like arty... we hate them in our battle, unless we are playing one ..lol  however I can not stand the amx elc at all,,, got thru it once and it was painful will not play it again ever,, I will just buy a prem when they come out..   put my order in  i'd like to buy one wheeled tank please..  a 6 or an 8 would be perfect,,  throw in some other stuff I have money and I am very motivated 

 

 

Honestly I came to this thread for no reason other than to point out a logical fallacy in the argument of one of the main contributors.  I then realised it was a necro and as such was pointless.  But discussion seems to have picked back up so...

 

I'm playing the Centurion 1 not so much because I want the 7/1 or whatever the hell the tier 10 is but because the Cromwell and Comet were some of my favourite tanks and ones that I have amongst my best stats on.  But that goes for the T20, T21, M7(back when it didn't suck), the old Stuart, the Type-T-34, etc even the Pershing to a point(I have the tier 9 Patton but it's still undergunned and I already know I don't like it before the gun upgrade).  I like fast dog fighting flankers(mediums mostly but some lights) with mediocre pen and damage but good movement and reload.  

 

So yeah I could just skip it and not deal with the frustration but fact is I've been playing for 6+ years and at this point only have a single tier NINE because I get bored with the [edited]grinds and start a new line.  I end up burning most of my free xp upgrading new tanks up to tier 8 and then just quitting the line.  Not saying that my experience should influence anything.  I do however play a majority of the middle tiers and after a multi year break from the game I can safely say many of the ones that were good are now utter [edited]e.  The power creep is real.  Map's all becoming funnels of doom, gold ammo for credits, arty changes, etc.  I've bought a decent number of premiums over the years, spent money on the game so it's not just a freebie vs paying player thing.  All the premiums I paid for are complete crap now.  They've been so outclassed by the new stuff it's crazy.

 

One last observation.  I took 3-4 years off the game.  When I left the KV-1 was a scary tank for a medium to run into.  Now I [edited]laugh at em, generally feel bad for the guy playing it.  This is the case with a number of tanks across multiple lines.  I'm still relearning the game now but it's been 1000 battles since I came back and none of the tanks I used to worry about are anything but a joke now.  


Edited by Ciabhan, Apr 23 2019 - 20:11.


WhineMaker #69 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 21:21

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Someone needs to further their education and earn their diploma... :child:



Norseskald #70 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:03

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View PostFlarvin, on Apr 11 2018 - 22:08, said:

Funny how WG dumbed down the MM so bottom tier would see a max of 3 top tiers. Yet that is not dumb enough, even only 3 top tiers out of 15 tanks is too difficult. lol

 

and people wonder why na's population is hemorrhaging, i mean your such a joy in the forums i can imagine how delightful you are in game 

Witchbell #71 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:29

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+2 matchmaking needs to disappear. You have a chance against a tank 1 tier higher than you but 2 tiers higher is just ridiculous. An M6 shouldn't be forced into the frontlines to stare down the barrel of an O-HO.

Flarvin #72 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 22:37

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View PostNorseskald, on Apr 23 2019 - 16:03, said:

and people wonder why na's population is hemorrhaging, i mean your such a joy in the forums i can imagine how delightful you are in game 

 

Maybe most of the na population has become like you, short on critical thinking. So need WG to dumb down WoT for them. 



Ciabhan #73 Posted Apr 23 2019 - 23:35

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View PostWhineMaker, on Apr 23 2019 - 15:21, said:

 

Someone needs to further their education and earn their diploma... :child:

 

Ah yes the standard Wo(aut)ist elite's downplaying any legitimate criticism from the average majority.  I get it, you have nothing better to do so you play a lot of this game.  You have billions of silver, millions of free xp and 360 days of premium on the back-burner.  If you and the couple thousand lads left on the NA server who meet your standards were the only ones around the game would die.  But hey, balancing everything around that little group makes sense eh.



WhineMaker #74 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 01:18

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View PostCiabhan, on Apr 23 2019 - 14:35, said:

 

Ah yes the standard Wo(aut)ist elite's downplaying any legitimate criticism from the average majority.  I get it, you have nothing better to do so you play a lot of this game.  You have billions of silver, millions of free xp and 360 days of premium on the back-burner.  If you and the couple thousand lads left on the NA server who meet your standards were the only ones around the game would die.  But hey, balancing everything around that little group makes sense eh.

 

Having a game dumbed down to your standards seems a legit reason for your so called balance... 

 

 

Being a freemium player, you should be happy there are players like me, those that choose to spend money to keep the game free to play for others... :coin:

 

 

 

You know, it makes me feel so terrible, deep down inside, you are unable to play a game as often as others. Being retired a permanent resident of my Grandma's attic, I'll never have to work another day in my life, and this gives me plenty of time to do as I choose... :P



Stevenwt #75 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 10:38

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View Postmoogleslam, on Apr 23 2019 - 07:34, said:

MM is phenomenal now, and this year old thread getting a necro could lead to confusion by some.

 

View Postmoogleslam, on Apr 23 2019 - 07:34, said:

MM is phenomenal now, and this year old thread getting a necro could lead to confusion by some.

 

View PostCiabhan, on Apr 23 2019 - 07:44, said:

 

You're arguing under the logical fallacy that all tiers have equal numbers of players.  You would be correct if that were the case.  But it isn't.  Instead you have(for example) 150 players at tier 4, 800 at tier 5, 175 at tier 6, 200 at 7, 1600 at 8, 800 at 9, and 500 at 10.  This inevitably changes the math.  The match maker can't match MOST of the tier 8s against lower tiers so they are forced to play higher tiers more often.  Same goes for tier 5 in this example.

 

Damnit feel for the necro.

 

you do realise that replying to a necroed whinethresd will keep icy bumped to the top?



Ciabhan #76 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 11:02

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View PostWhineMaker, on Apr 23 2019 - 19:18, said:

 

Having a game dumbed down to your standards seems a legit reason for your so called balance... 

 

 

Being a freemium player, you should be happy there are players like me, those that choose to spend money to keep the game free to play for others... :coin:

 

 

 

You know, it makes me feel so terrible, deep down inside, you are unable to play a game as often as others. Being retired a permanent resident of my Grandma's attic, I'll never have to work another day in my life, and this gives me plenty of time to do as I choose... :P

 

I don't want it dumbed down.  It's BEEN dumbed down.  I'd like to see the days when light tanks were scouts, not fast tds(or pocket mediums) with burst magazines and gold ammo.  I'd like to go back to the days when you had to aim for weak points to overcome opponents out of your league, not just hit 2 ftw.  I'd like to see less maps that are just 2 lane funnels.  Etc.  Also you apparently can't read.  I have spent money on the game over the years.  But at this point I don't have the free time to justify buying premium time that'll just drain away and I play to collect the next tank so premium tanks really have very little draw for me.  I'll stick with the ones I already bought for credit grinding, [edited]as they are compared to todays.

 

But none of that changes the normal elitist viewpoint.  This game has it in spades.  More so than any other game I've ever played.  Eh, whatever there's a reason that I have less than 15 posts in 7 years.  I came here because I saw the bad math in the original argument not to get into one with some [edited].


Edited by Ciabhan, Apr 24 2019 - 11:04.


moogleslam #77 Posted Apr 24 2019 - 15:24

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View PostStevenwt, on Apr 24 2019 - 05:38, said:

 

 

 

you do realise that replying to a necroed whinethresd will keep icy bumped to the top?

 

It was already at the top, and wanted to point out that it wasn't new.




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