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M0nkE #21 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 22:34

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View PostBlackhorse_One_, on Apr 15 2018 - 20:57, said:

 

Enlist ...

 

A hitch in the Field Artillery would give you some perspective ... :sceptic:

Are you trying to justify a top-down view with real life artillery? In a game that has next to nothing to do with real life, the artillery is by far the least realistic part.



Blackhorse_One_ #22 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 22:50

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I don't write whiney posts about Artillery in WOT ...

 

I accept it for the necessary evil it is.

 

That said, I don't believe the tubes belong on the map.

 

Arty should be an OBA consumable, and fired in battery patterns.

 

And it should ALWAYS carry the possibility of a catastrophic Kill - no matter where it lands, or what it hits.


Edited by Blackhorse_One_, Apr 16 2018 - 01:58.


Dirizon #23 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 23:03

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View PostCapPhrases, on Apr 14 2018 - 15:08, said:

making them more expensive will just let the rich get richer. no

 

 

How does this make sense. At all.

 

Gold rounds were addressed. Years ago.

lf gold rounds need any addressing at all, so does heavy tank and TD armour.

Weakspots need to be made relevant and applicable again.

 



Ich_bin_Hass #24 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 23:05

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View PostM0nkE, on Apr 15 2018 - 14:46, said:

 

Yeah, they should be more like those guys who sit at the back of the map and click on people who are camping at 60 kph. You know, thinking hard and adapting to things.

 

You are always going to have that. Been seeing that since day one and it hasn't changed and wont change.

Ich_bin_Hass #25 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 23:05

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View PostDirizon, on Apr 15 2018 - 16:03, said:

 

How does this make sense. At all.

 

Gold rounds were addressed. Years ago.

lf gold rounds need any addressing at all, so does heavy tank and TD armour.

Weakspots need to be made relevant and applicable again.

 

 

Agreed !

Dirizon #26 Posted Apr 15 2018 - 23:15

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Too many people, want to just stroll down jump street, in a heavily armoured tank and bounce off 25 shots straight. 

Pretty much in Type 4-5, or an .oi. - and casually dupe someone with a lead ball gun, firing HE without aiming themselves. 

And expect not to be hit by APCR or HEAT? Do you not understand how silly this argument sounds?

These tanks, virutally have armour immune to standard tier-by-tier AP, except vs TDs. lt does not work that way.

 

 

lf gold rounds are problematic, maybe. Their damage could be reduced, or cost be increased. Sure. But Heavy tank and TD frontal armours, need altered too

 

 



Dirizon #27 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 00:12

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View PostBlackhorse_One_, on Apr 15 2018 - 16:27, said:

 

Enlist ...

A hitch in the Field Artillery would give you some perspective ... .

 

Perspective of what? How you do not have to spend half your time digging battery dugouts, transporting ammunition casings, erecting camo awns?  Because now most are self propelled howitzers, air-lifts, or mobile rocket tracks. Support pukes, what any normal army man would call them as, receive very little respect if any at all, for what little they do and see. Yet still call themselves veterans. l would say they are just a tad more active, than a company logistics clerk.

 

Artillery battery captains, would have got maps, aerial photos from say a P-38M reconnaissance aircraft, or the often supplied M-Twenty recon car - to provide detailed strategic areas up ahead. And they would align their guns in that general direction and elevation, choose the right charge for their ammunition, and wait for order to fire. Since when does artillery, ever hit a 55km/hr weaving light tank. Unless it was a SU85 with the 12.2cm U11 howitzer, direct fire.

 

l think you should enlist, and see what arty really does. 

 



Blackhorse_One_ #28 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 01:14

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View PostDirizon, on Apr 15 2018 - 18:12, said:

l think you should enlist, and see what arty really does.

 

I did ... 1st hitch

 

M110 Gun Bunny, FO, and FDC a long damn time ago, probably long before you were born, son

 

+1 on Post #26, but you know how to sit on Post #27 ...

 

I knew a couple of FOs who called it on their own poz and saved alot of infantry [edited] when Charlie was in the wire.

 

BTW, "Battery Captains" DO NOT get the level of intel you think they do - the lowest that stuff ever goes is to a Division or DIVARTY FSO. Everybody below that gets a fire support plan and a target list. Maneuver battalions can request add-ons via attached FSOs, but it is they who decide which targets to hammer, unless the maneuver commander calls otherwise.

 

Also, FA is "combat support", not "service support". Your attitude is something else you know how to sit on - you're not nearly as knowledgeable on Artillery as you think you are - in fact, your grasp of the subject matter is less than amateur ...

 

I dare you to walk into a Canadian veterans club and spout that [edited] you wrote in your first paragraph ...

 

I think you'd be lucky to crawl out ... :sceptic:


Edited by Blackhorse_One_, Apr 16 2018 - 17:05.


ElOtroViejo #29 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 01:24

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Again, the problem with gold ammo is it breaks balance between armored and unarmored vehicles, as an armored one can do nothing to compensate, and I think that is why WG will supposedly address this

M0nkE #30 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 01:52

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View PostDirizon, on Apr 15 2018 - 22:03, said:

 

How does this make sense. At all.

 

Gold rounds were addressed. Years ago.

lf gold rounds need any addressing at all, so does heavy tank and TD armour.

Weakspots need to be made relevant and applicable again.

 

 

The reason they started buffing weakspots (and armor in general) is because of gold round spam. Saying that the current meta makes premium ammo rework unfeasible is true only because of the imbalance of putting objectively superior ammunition behind a paywall. Both need to be addressed, but armor is only an issue in the first place because of premium ammunition (and excessive rng, which prevents people from reliably aiming for weakspots anyway).

rogueluke #31 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 10:45

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View PostBlackhorse_One_, on Apr 15 2018 - 04:57, said:

 

Right on the heels of Ich_bin_Hasse, Post #16, and just in time ...

 

Personal motivation for initiating such proposals must always be ruthlessly examined ...

 

Especially when you've read through the hundreds, nay, thousands, of inane and repetitive complaints and proposals posted from Day One.
 

Too often, the "OP" posting the "idea" feels himself at a personal disadvantage, through ignorance, inexperience, or sheer stupidity, and cannot comfortably cope with the currently established mechanic or method of play and seeks to make said change for personal advantage without too much actual consideration for the overall effect on any one or any thing else in the circumstances of said proposal.


Very often, said "OP" seeks to force a rule or condition upon everyone else via a "punishment" designed to curb or prevent a condition or behavior which the "OP" has great personal difficulty in coping with, be it mentally or physically, or through some phoney sense of morality in a free-to-play video game, because actually having to THINK and/or adapt to established conditions ... is ... just ... too ... hard ...

 

The same bar has to be used on those that chide others for their suggestions as well.

those using exploits never want those exploits taken away.

anything that causes an imbalance in game play because some use it and some do not needs to be looked at.

The only downside in using gold rounds is the cost which to some players is totally irrelevant, they have plenty of coin to blow on these.

new players on the other hand do not have the coin for these rounds so are limited to the standard rounds for the most part.

If WG dropped the price of the gold rounds to the same as the standard rounds they would become obsolete.

Nobody would load standard rounds at all.



rogueluke #32 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 10:56

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View PostM0nkE, on Apr 15 2018 - 21:34, said:

Are you trying to justify a top-down view with real life artillery? In a game that has next to nothing to do with real life, the artillery is by far the least realistic part.

 

lets not forget about the tanks drone view where you can see over obstacles like buildings and hills.

with Mods that view can be nearly the same as the SPG top down view 300 meters or so from the air.

even the standard game view gives you enough to see over low obstacles at targets even though your turret would have no LOS on them.

 



rogueluke #33 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 11:19

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View PostDirizon, on Apr 15 2018 - 23:12, said:

 

Perspective of what? How you do not have to spend half your time digging battery dugouts, transporting ammunition casings, erecting camo awns?  Because now most are self propelled howitzers, air-lifts, or mobile rocket tracks. Support pukes, what any normal army man would call them as, receive very little respect if any at all, for what little they do and see. Yet still call themselves veterans. l would say they are just a tad more active, than a company logistics clerk.

 

Artillery battery captains, would have got maps, aerial photos from say a P-38M reconnaissance aircraft, or the often supplied M-Twenty recon car - to provide detailed strategic areas up ahead. And they would align their guns in that general direction and elevation, choose the right charge for their ammunition, and wait for order to fire. Since when does artillery, ever hit a 55km/hr weaving light tank. Unless it was a SU85 with the 12.2cm U11 howitzer, direct fire.

 

l think you should enlist, and see what arty really does. 

 

 

since we are getting in to realism here i would like to see a light tank weave like some do in this game and not break or throw track in the process....

Dirizon #34 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 11:25

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Blackhorse_One_, on Apr 15 2018 - 16:27, said:

 

Enlist ...

A hitch in the Field Artillery would give you some perspective .....

 

View PostBlackhorse_One_, on Apr 15 2018 - 17:20, said:

I accept it for the necessary evil it is.

That said, I don't believe the tubes belong on the map.

Arty should be an OBA consumable, and fired in battery patterns.

And it should ALWAYS carry the possibility of a catastrophic Kill - no matter where it lands, or what it hits.

 

View PostBlackhorse_One_, on Apr 15 2018 - 19:44, said:

I did ... 1st hitch

M110 Gun Bunny, FO, and FDC a long damn time ago, probably long before you were born, son

I knew a couple of FOs who called it on their own poz and saved alot of infantry when Charlie was in the wire.

BTW, Battery Captains DO NOT get the level of intel you think they do - the lowest that stuff ever goes is to a Division or DIVARTY FSO. Everybody below that gets a fire support plan and a target list. Maneuver battalions can request add-ons via attached FSOs, but it is they who decide which targets to hammer, unless the maneuver commander calls otherwise.

Also, FA is "combat support", not "service support". Your attitude is something else you know how to sit on - you're not nearly as knowledgeable on Artillery as you think you are - in fact, your grasp of the subject matter is less than amateur ...

I dare you to walk into a Canadian veterans club and spout that you wrote in your first paragraph ...

I think you'd be lucky to crawl out ... .

 

Don't lecture me about your allied nonsense or your service. Don't talk to me about paying such a price. My father served as a Yugoslav partisan. Do you know what that is? ln the big great one. The Black, White, and Red ran over his country in less than 2 weeks. When you were still growing into the striped jimmys beneath your shorts. He didn't have combat support to call. l doubt there was anything issued as 'artillery' other than mortar tubes. He had other rebels around him with whatever they could find, his wits, and a 15 year old MG salvaged from a downed aircraft with probably more rust than the pickups you enjoy. You can take your modern standard issue supplied combat support shovel and water bottle in hand puke attitude, definitely not a grunts, and jam it up you know where. Perhaps you would benefit from the hardships of actual combat deployment, where you see the whites of your enemies eyes. Not the 8in detonations of 80 kilo shells lobbed 17km away......That for the purposes of this conversation, don't attack echeloning, scouting, or harassing  fourty+ km hr mobile forces, weaving with twenty & thirty+ tonne power-to-weight chassis'

 

Arty has no place in the game. Arty is not an necessary evil in WG WoT, it is just evil. Called-in arty consumable already ruins skirmishes and advances. Arty rarely produces catastrophic kills, unless boat on boat because of magazine explosions and sinking. Nebelwerfers and land stukas, heavy mortars (12cm) light and heavy guns / howitzers (1O.5 or 15cm) self propelled close support (StuH / SU85 12.2 / Brummbar / SU15.2) large fragmentation AAs (German 8.8 / US 9cm) constituting the huge part of total war arty....all of this junk rarely catastrophically killed anything. They superficially disabled and jammed things, hurt / concussed crew, Etc. ln fact, much like aerial bombing, the craters and blown out track belts at the bottom of these craters.....these were more likely the issue vehicles had to deal with, rather than damage. Many accounts of German armour, quite quickly refurbished and sent back to action, because not killed in action by actual penetrators. The only thing arty catastrophically killed, was people and things like fuel/ammo dumps, and masonry. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Blackhorse_One_ #35 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 14:32

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"Cool story, bro""

rogueluke #36 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 15:02

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View PostDirizon, on Apr 16 2018 - 10:25, said:

 

 

 

Don't lecture me about your allied nonsense or your service. Don't talk to me about paying such a price. My father served as a Yugoslav partisan. Do you know what that is? ln the big great one. The Black, White, and Red ran over his country in less than 2 weeks. When you were still growing into the striped jimmys beneath your shorts. He didn't have combat support to call. l doubt there was anything issued as 'artillery' other than mortar tubes. He had other rebels around him with whatever they could find, his wits, and a 15 year old MG salvaged from a downed aircraft with probably more rust than the pickups you enjoy. You can take your modern standard issue supplied combat support shovel and water bottle in hand puke attitude, definitely not a grunts, and jam it up you know where. Perhaps you would benefit from the hardships of actual combat deployment, where you see the whites of your enemies eyes. Not the 8in detonations of 80 kilo shells lobbed 17km away......That for the purposes of this conversation, don't attack echeloning, scouting, or harassing  fourty+ km hr mobile forces, weaving with twenty & thirty+ tonne power-to-weight chassis'

 

Arty has no place in the game. Arty is not an necessary evil in WG WoT, it is just evil. Called-in arty consumable already ruins skirmishes and advances. Arty rarely produces catastrophic kills, unless boat on boat because of magazine explosions and sinking. Nebelwerfers and land stukas, heavy mortars (12cm) light and heavy guns / howitzers (1O.5 or 15cm) self propelled close support (StuH / SU85 12.2 / Brummbar / SU15.2) large fragmentation AAs (German 8.8 / US 9cm) constituting the huge part of total war arty....all of this junk rarely catastrophically killed anything. They superficially disabled and jammed things, hurt / concussed crew, Etc. ln fact, much like aerial bombing, the craters and blown out track belts at the bottom of these craters.....these were more likely the issue vehicles had to deal with, rather than damage. Many accounts of German armour, quite quickly refurbished and sent back to action, because not killed in action by actual penetrators. The only thing arty catastrophically killed, was people and things like fuel/ammo dumps, and masonry. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

arty does have a place in the game, that is why the game designer put it the game.

a person with a disability arty is about the only unit they can play.

i found this out the hard way when i injured my left hand.

i was stuck playing spg's for 2 months till it was fully healed.

you are trying to add realism into a game that is not even a simulator.

it is a arcade style game, they could add wizards shooting fireballs one shotting everything they hit if they wanted. 

i seen a flight sim game add a city sized pizza and 1500ft beer bottle on the map.

SPG's have a reason for being in the game, maybe even multiple reasons.

90% of this game is fake, from the way the tanks drive around on maps, to the very ballistic physics used in the rounds.

the 10% is the visual art work. lol



Dirizon #37 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 18:12

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View PostBlackhorse_One_, on Apr 16 2018 - 09:02, said:

"Cool story, bro''

 

Do not bro me, home slice. l am not from your crib, G.

 

You brought up the silly stories. And by the way, you can walk into any Canadian Legion, and say anything you want. 



Blackhorse_One_ #38 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 18:15

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View PostDirizon, on Apr 16 2018 - 12:12, said:

Do not bro me, home slice. l am not from your crib, G.

 

You brought up the silly stories. And by the way, you can walk into any Canadian Legion, and say anything you want.

 

I know better than that - I made good friends with Canadians at Fort Knox during my career courses there.

 

And you just told me everything else I suspected about you, boy



SpectreHD #39 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 08:57

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View PostM0nkE, on Apr 16 2018 - 08:52, said:

 

The reason they started buffing weakspots (and armor in general) is because of gold round spam. Saying that the current meta makes premium ammo rework unfeasible is true only because of the imbalance of putting objectively superior ammunition behind a paywall. Both need to be addressed, but armor is only an issue in the first place because of premium ammunition (and excessive rng, which prevents people from reliably aiming for weakspots anyway).

 

This. Exactly this. Back when premium ammo wasn't so prevalent, standard ammo was more than enough to deal with the Maus and E100 even through their turret front in addition to their lower glacis.

 

So the way the Maus and E100 prevented their turret fronts from being penetrated was to angle their turrets at the cost of not being able to fire back or be able to get their guns on target due to slow turret traverse and aim time.

 

But players didn't like that, especially mediums whom had higher average penetration than heavies at Teir X, so they loaded gold and penned the front of angled Maus and E100s. Similarly for the Type 5, with its box like shape and shoulder hull weakspot meant that HEAT ate it alive. So the end result?

 

The Maus was barely seen in battle despite being one of two oldest Tier X vehicle in the game.

 

The E100 is not considered below average when it used to be a force to be reckoned with.

 

And no one leveled up to the Type 5 despite being a fairly newly introduced vehicle.

 

Then the Maus and Type 5 were buffed and suddenly the game has a "super heavy" meta that has been around for a long time so they need premium ammo now. Well, perhaps if they recognised the "medium tank premium ammo spam" meta, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. Maybe medium tanks should learn to fall back and let the TDs do their job instead of insisting on face tanking heavies in general, not just super heavies.



P0NYTANK #40 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 10:49

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It would be interesting if the premium ammunition is limited to only 25% of the total of all the ammunition in the tank, so you would think when to use them and when not ...

 

But more than the ammunition, they should update the armor of the tanks and implement an improved damage matrix, it's ridiculous to receive 1.8K of damage if you are hit with HESH in the commander's hatch XD






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