Jump to content


The one true fact about the MM "rigging" discussion you all must accept now.


  • Please log in to reply
248 replies to this topic

Captain_Rownd #101 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 02:25

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 2316 battles
  • 886
  • Member since:
    09-28-2015

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 16 2018 - 15:12, said:

The official introduction of 3/5/7-style Matchmaking, and tier shifting based on past performance, both now currently in effect, unequivocally and irrefutably prove, without a shadow of a doubt that Wargaming can, will and is manipulating your individual gaming experience through the matchmaker system.

 

 

:teethhappy: Good! 

ColonelHeinzGuderian #102 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 02:33

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 22259 battles
  • 212
  • Member since:
    11-05-2012

View PostFlarvin, on Apr 16 2018 - 09:29, said:

I love the commitment put into these conspiracy theories.

 

Without any facts, just feelings and a ton of belief. 

 

Makes reading this forum such a pleasure. Can always get a good laugh reading these types of threads. lol

 

49,000 battles and almost 12,000 posts in forums.  You are what is known in the legal field as a "professional expert."
 

(Don't feel proud...it isn't a compliment.)  

 

I find it rich that you state "without any facts" when you can't refute the facts you are presented with, repeatedly in this and other threads on the same topic.  



ColonelHeinzGuderian #103 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 02:36

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 22259 battles
  • 212
  • Member since:
    11-05-2012

View PostKlunk73, on Apr 16 2018 - 09:52, said:

The only thing Ive noticed is their are a number of times the MM places high skill players and/or clans on one team and not so much on the other.....and then a ROFL stomp quickly ensues. Has anyone else notice this or is just me.

 

Every.  Single.  Day.

ColonelHeinzGuderian #104 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 02:41

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 22259 battles
  • 212
  • Member since:
    11-05-2012

View PostQUACK_PoT, on Apr 16 2018 - 09:53, said:

Wargaming is a business. They really want as many people as possible to be successful or at least happy playing this game because that equals more money in their pockets. To think that they came up with a programmed way to mess with us would really be counter productive to running this business.

 

It sounds so logical that it must be true, but it isn't.  The science (or voodoo, if you prefer) of psychology says otherwise. 

 

Psychology says that you just have to give the players the belief that if they only just...(fill in the blank, here...get that better tank, use different equipment, get higher skilled crews, platoon with just the right partner, join just the right clan, play at the right time of day, and too many more to list here), then they will be able to (finally) win consistently.  It is actually the converse of what you say that helps line their pockets the most.  Make the game frustrating for the majority who will continue to dig deep in their wallets for an "advantage."  That is what keeps WG in the money, most of the time...

 

Look to Vegas if you want to find a comparable model of business to WG.  It isn't about keeping the players happy.  



_cthulhu_ #105 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 03:08

    Captain

  • Players
  • 46577 battles
  • 1,356
  • [SIMP] SIMP
  • Member since:
    02-21-2011
Double post

_cthulhu_ #106 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 03:18

    Captain

  • Players
  • 46577 battles
  • 1,356
  • [SIMP] SIMP
  • Member since:
    02-21-2011

View PostNunya_000, on Apr 17 2018 - 02:45, said:

 

so.....not a single "fact" presented.

 

You overlooked this fact he gave you -

"If you are bottom tier too often the Matchmaker will see this and place you mid or even top tier more often..."

 

That is a quote from WG discussing how MM works.

 

And this -

When you get a new tank, you are supposed to get easier MM for a couple battles

 

WG has come out and told everyone that they can manipulate MM on a per player / per tank basis

 

For some reason, people only believe that WG, the company that brought you the Defender/ WTF100 / 268v4 etc, will only EVER move you to top tier and never down.


Edited by _cthulhu_, Apr 17 2018 - 03:18.


MightyBarbarian #107 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 03:37

    Captain

  • Players
  • 36615 battles
  • 1,307
  • Member since:
    05-14-2011

View Postsleeper_agent, on Apr 16 2018 - 09:26, said:

Its random based on its algorithm. The algorithm is constantly measuring and weighing your abilities, rank and tank you're using to balance your new challenge.

 

So if you are slotted into games you are winning, MM will slot you into games with higher ranked opponents to challenge you or offset your previous good performance. Some will excel and continue to do better, The majority will not. They will crash and burn and post on here that MM is rigged and out to get them.

 

See you on the battlefield. 

 

isnt it rigging?

NeatoMan #108 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 03:48

    Major

  • Players
  • 25918 battles
  • 17,838
  • Member since:
    06-28-2011

View PostDirty_Dirk_S33, on Apr 16 2018 - 19:59, said:

 

What you want to do is use 159 for the "Trades in Series" and "5" for the length of streak. Then you enter various probabilities into the "Loss Probability" field until you arrive at 100% chance that that streak will occur in 159 games. This will tell you your loss/win rate.

 

Here is a table of expected outcomes:

Games

Losing

Streak

Average

Games

WR=40%

Average

Games

WR=45%

Average

Games

WR=50%

Average

Games

WR=55%

Average

Games

WR=60%

3 23 30 42 59 79
5 79 121 182 284 470
8 418 756 1466 3100 7294
10 1177 2510 5869 15312 45589

 

I think what data shows, is that for your 5 loss losing streaks, you should have a 48% overall win rate. And for your 5 win winning streaks you should have a 54% overall win rate. Is this significant? I am not sure, but it is interesting. Please check my work errors, I am only human.

You have to remember that this is calculating the chances of these randomly occurring.   Results are not random.  These are going to be exacerbated and/or attenuated by the specific tanks I played as well as how well/tilted I am that particular session (i.e. non-random factors).  I rarely play the same tank/tier for an entire session.   I played a number of tanks stock, as well as some high tier tanks that I wasn't very good at.  Their win rates were all below 50%, some well below 50% for extended periods.   I also get extremely frustrated with campers, and do not play well when there are a lot of them around.

 

If the expected win rates was off by a large amount I might be suspicious, but the expected win rates fall within the ranges of win rates I typically get over the series lengths.


Edited by NeatoMan, Apr 17 2018 - 11:47.


n00bfarmer #109 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 03:49

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 21 battles
  • 858
  • Member since:
    12-14-2017
Do I believe the "random" match maker is random like flipping a coin? Nope. I believe we get random battles but the system seems to try to "rig" them to be over with fast. It is random in that we all get a random mix of this but there is some kind of code in the match maker that seems to give one team an advantage over the other in some way, either by tank types, map not balanced or by player skill. Faster battles means more xp conversions which means more profits for wg.

WolfAttack_1 #110 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 06:21

    Staff sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 36700 battles
  • 399
  • [-RS-] -RS-
  • Member since:
    06-21-2015

View PostFlarvin, on Apr 16 2018 - 15:29, said:

I love the commitment put into these conspiracy theories.

 

Without any facts, just feelings and a ton of belief. 

 

Makes reading this forum such a pleasure. Can always get a good laugh reading these types of threads. lol

 

I am afraid if you really knew the truth about WGing, you would still deny it.

MMHT #111 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 06:34

    Sergeant

  • Players
  • 12517 battles
  • 166
  • [GMV] GMV
  • Member since:
    11-23-2013

So if the system is forcing/tweaking/nudging/swaying/influencing (choose your verb) my games, is it doing the same thing for every player?  If each player is approximately equally affected... why do we care?  And if not, who is benefitting from any unequal influence?



Da_Craw #112 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 13:30

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 25888 battles
  • 2,930
  • [DOG5] DOG5
  • Member since:
    05-30-2014

View Postn00bfarmer, on Apr 16 2018 - 20:49, said:

Do I believe the "random" match maker is random like flipping a coin? Nope. I believe we get random battles but the system seems to try to "rig" them to be over with fast. It is random in that we all get a random mix of this but there is some kind of code in the match maker that seems to give one team an advantage over the other in some way, either by tank types, map not balanced or by player skill. Faster battles means more xp conversions which means more profits for wg.

 

The MM has been consistently tweaked to put the exact same type of tanks on both sides.  Maps are removed for perceived imbalance.  Player skill is supposedly not even a factor in MM.  All of these things seem to go directly against the idea that MM is rigging for faster battles.  WG has stated that battles are actually getting longer, not shorter.  

24cups #113 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 13:43

    Major

  • Players
  • 23050 battles
  • 2,404
  • [D-DAY] D-DAY
  • Member since:
    01-25-2013

View PostKnagar, on Apr 16 2018 - 12:27, 


Lots of people claim it's rigged, explain how they think it's rigged, but never why WG would do it.

Because they hates us Precious! They does they does. 



Flarvin #114 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 13:52

    Major

  • Players
  • 51832 battles
  • 13,465
  • Member since:
    03-29-2013

View PostColonelHeinzGuderian, on Apr 16 2018 - 20:33, said:

 

49,000 battles and almost 12,000 posts in forums.  You are what is known in the legal field as a "professional expert."
 

(Don't feel proud...it isn't a compliment.)  

 

I find it rich that you state "without any facts" when you can't refute the facts you are presented with, repeatedly in this and other threads on the same topic.  

 

 

You are right, I can’t refute the facts. 

 

That is because there are no facts proving any rigging presented. Just like the other threads on the same topic. 

 

Which is what I find so entertaining. Along with those comments trying to defend such nonsense. 

 

Thanks for adding to my entertainment. lol

 



Sylvado #115 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 13:52

    Major

  • Players
  • 64695 battles
  • 3,801
  • [LOAC] LOAC
  • Member since:
    10-10-2012

View Post__WarChild__, on Apr 16 2018 - 15:56, said:

What does this picture from my most recent battle last night tell you?

 

 

 

It tells me you should uninstall the xvm mod and increase your enjoyment of the game.

24cups #116 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 13:55

    Major

  • Players
  • 23050 battles
  • 2,404
  • [D-DAY] D-DAY
  • Member since:
    01-25-2013

View Postawildseaking, on Apr 16 2018 - 18:38, said:

 

You probably think you're really witty, but this phenomena is comically easy to explain.

 

With each successive tier, the population at that tier increases exponentially.

 

Ex. When you start the game at T1 and there's only a handful of people playing, MM will put you in a T2 match 100% of the time because MM gives preference to larger (15v15) and faster matches. Relative to T1, there are tons of T2s to pull from to force a 5/10 match. When you get to T2, you might be inclined to think you'll start facing T1 all the time, but then you get put into a T3 match 100% of the time for the same reason.

 

Basically, more people are competing for fewer slots. That's why you're always bottom at every tier except T10 which by definition cannot be bottom tier. And sort of T9, but that's because you have +1/-2 so you're statistically less likely to be bottom tier (more players at T9 than T10, but also more players at T8 than T9).

You make absolutely no sense. You say this explains why people are always bottom tier at the same time you have people as top tier. 

Unbelievable  ! ROFL.



Flarvin #117 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 13:58

    Major

  • Players
  • 51832 battles
  • 13,465
  • Member since:
    03-29-2013

View PostWolfAttack_1, on Apr 17 2018 - 00:21, said:

 

I am afraid if you really knew the truth about WGing, you would still deny it.

 

The ‘truth’ about WG? 

 

Oh please tell me the truth. lol



__WarChild__ #118 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 14:05

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 20886 battles
  • 2,806
  • [Y0L0] Y0L0
  • Member since:
    06-03-2017

View PostSylvado, on Apr 17 2018 - 06:52, said:

It tells me you should uninstall the xvm mod and increase your enjoyment of the game.

 

XVM doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game.  Getting slaughtered affects my enjoyment of the game.  The waste of credits and time when placed in impossible situations will grate on me, but only after I've experienced it too many games in a row.  If you had exactly the same MM that I get, you'd understand.

 

For what it's worth, I haven't been able to participate in my clan's Stronghold battles for around 2 weeks.  They've been doing great (without me, of course) until I was able to join them last night.  This was our matchup:

 

 

Although my clan had fun laughing at our feeble attempts, I considered it a waste of 45 Minutes and 200,000 Credits.  (G, as I stated earlier in this thread, is a very respectful clan - even when they have your head buried in the pillow)


Edited by __WarChild__, Apr 17 2018 - 14:23.


Flarvin #119 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 14:09

    Major

  • Players
  • 51832 battles
  • 13,465
  • Member since:
    03-29-2013

View Post__WarChild__, on Apr 17 2018 - 08:05, said:

If you had exactly the same MM that I get, you'd understand.

 

Everyone gets the “exactly the same MM.” 

 

There is nothing special about you, that WG would give you a different MM. 



awildseaking #120 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 14:15

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 10736 battles
  • 735
  • [NEET] NEET
  • Member since:
    08-05-2015

View Post24cups, on Apr 17 2018 - 07:55, said:

You make absolutely no sense. You say this explains why people are always bottom tier at the same time you have people as top tier. 

Unbelievable  ! ROFL.

 

More people are competing for fewer slots. The maximum is 3 top tiers in +2 and 5 top tiers in +1. Each successive tier has exponentially more players in it, so the players in the baseline tier almost never get to be the top tiers they're always facing off against. I'm not being literal when I say always, but for the sake of gameplay discussion, 90%+ may as well be always because you'll have to play a hundred rounds just to have a few top tier matches.

 

Ex. T2 has 20 players in queue and T3 has 100. T2 keeps seeing T3 because MM won't make a 10v10 for the sake of balance and variety, but once you start playing T3, you're in a larger pool of players competing for the same small number of top tier slots.

 

Basically T10 and T9 are farming T8 and T7 respectively, which in turn creates a feedback loop all the way down to the bottom.


Edited by awildseaking, Apr 17 2018 - 14:16.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users