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TIER X GERMAN buff? Which one first?


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Trauglodyte #21 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 21:34

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You guys can't just list what tanks suck without the why.

 

Light tanks that are bad:

 

  • SP 1C and HWK 12 are bad due to the gun being derpy
  • RU is bad because of no armor and poor gun elevation/depression
  • PZ sucks because of the same issue with the RU plus both it and the RU have poor dispersion at range so it can't snipe, brawl, or play the medium game

 

Mediums that are bad:

 

  • Panther II is bad because of a very soft turret face
  • E50 and E50 are weak due to soft turret faces and poor DPM

 

Heavies that are bad

 

  • tier 7 heavies and below suffer from flat armor and need more health and could use the decoupling of drive wheel plus engine double crits
  • Tiger P is weak due to poor DPM
  • Tiger II is weak because of poor DPM on a softer 105 than the E50, bad frontal armor, a weak turret face that tier 7 mediums can easily pen with normal ammo, and poor agility states; 
  • VK 45.02 A (see Tiger II)
  • Mauschen is hurt because of speed but you can't do anything about that
  • E100 has too soft a turret, has a weak 128 mm as a base gun, and the overall armor is no longer relevant to the game; historically, the side profile of the turret is correct but it needs a face lift because it is too soft
  • DPM on the Pz VII is too light and the side "pockets" should probably be buffed a tad

 

TDs that are bad:

 

  • The Nashorn needs a slight engine buff; shouldn't have the engine tied to that of the Hummel despite of it being on the same hull
  • The Sturer Emil needs the 2nd engine that the VK 30.01 has which is 400 h.p.; that a tier 7 TD built upon the hull of a tier 5 heavy that doesn't have the same engine options as said tier 5 heavy makes no sense
  • Given the nerf and the changes to the game, there isn't much of a point in limiting the traverse radius of the Grille 15 and it should be changed

 

Artillery that are bad:

 

  • GW Panther DPM is horrible and there is no excuse for it

 

Just my opinions, obviously.



xxBigbacon #22 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 21:45

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Apr 16 2018 - 21:34, said:

 

 

  • The Sturer Emil needs the 2nd engine that the VK 30.01 has which is 400 h.p.; that a tier 7 TD built upon the hull of a tier 5 heavy that doesn't have the same engine options as said tier 5 heavy makes no sense

 

St Emil could use a buff to the mantlet. Give it some thing when trying to use the depression. its just a huge punching bag.

Joe150 #23 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 22:23

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E50M and Leopard 1 need help lots of help.I've been in a few situations in my T54 and there was an E50M that I've had to deal with I don't think twice what's he going to do out dpm me haha.It's not that I'm that good that tank is weak I give that little respect at close to medium range I don't  care who's in it doesn't matter. 

Striker_70 #24 Posted Apr 16 2018 - 22:31

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Nearly every tier 10 German tank needs a buff.  The Maus is fine.  The Grille 15 used to be fine but certain players didn't know how to deal with them, complained, and now it's been nerfed into being completely useless.

 

They should remove the nerfs to the Grille first.  It was fine the way it was.



sleeper_agent #25 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 05:24

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Apr 16 2018 - 15:34, said:

You guys can't just list what tanks suck without the why.

 

Light tanks that are bad:

 

  • SP 1C and HWK 12 are bad due to the gun being derpy
  • RU is bad because of no armor and poor gun elevation/depression
  • PZ sucks because of the same issue with the RU plus both it and the RU have poor dispersion at range so it can't snipe, brawl, or play the medium game

 

Mediums that are bad:

 

  • Panther II is bad because of a very soft turret face
  • E50 and E50 are weak due to soft turret faces and poor DPM

 

Heavies that are bad

 

  • tier 7 heavies and below suffer from flat armor and need more health and could use the decoupling of drive wheel plus engine double crits
  • Tiger P is weak due to poor DPM
  • Tiger II is weak because of poor DPM on a softer 105 than the E50, bad frontal armor, a weak turret face that tier 7 mediums can easily pen with normal ammo, and poor agility states; 
  • VK 45.02 A (see Tiger II)
  • Mauschen is hurt because of speed but you can't do anything about that
  • E100 has too soft a turret, has a weak 128 mm as a base gun, and the overall armor is no longer relevant to the game; historically, the side profile of the turret is correct but it needs a face lift because it is too soft
  • DPM on the Pz VII is too light and the side "pockets" should probably be buffed a tad

 

TDs that are bad:

 

  • The Nashorn needs a slight engine buff; shouldn't have the engine tied to that of the Hummel despite of it being on the same hull
  • The Sturer Emil needs the 2nd engine that the VK 30.01 has which is 400 h.p.; that a tier 7 TD built upon the hull of a tier 5 heavy that doesn't have the same engine options as said tier 5 heavy makes no sense
  • Given the nerf and the changes to the game, there isn't much of a point in limiting the traverse radius of the Grille 15 and it should be changed

 

Artillery that are bad:

 

  • GW Panther DPM is horrible and there is no excuse for it

 

Just my opinions, obviously.

 

wow. Yeah. You nailed the analysis on these as far as I'm concerned too. 

FlakKnight #26 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 06:58

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Leopard 1 is still the weakest German TD, tier for tier.

mechsftw #27 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 07:20

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Apr 16 2018 - 21:34, said:

You guys can't just list what tanks suck without the why.

 

Light tanks that are bad:

 

  • SP 1C and HWK 12 are bad due to the gun being derpy
  • RU is bad because of no armor and poor gun elevation/depression
  • PZ sucks because of the same issue with the RU plus both it and the RU have poor dispersion at range so it can't snipe, brawl, or play the medium game

 

Mediums that are bad:

 

  • Panther II is bad because of a very soft turret face
  • E50 and E50 are weak due to soft turret faces and poor DPM

 

Heavies that are bad

 

  • tier 7 heavies and below suffer from flat armor and need more health and could use the decoupling of drive wheel plus engine double crits
  • Tiger P is weak due to poor DPM
  • Tiger II is weak because of poor DPM on a softer 105 than the E50, bad frontal armor, a weak turret face that tier 7 mediums can easily pen with normal ammo, and poor agility states; 
  • VK 45.02 A (see Tiger II)
  • Mauschen is hurt because of speed but you can't do anything about that
  • E100 has too soft a turret, has a weak 128 mm as a base gun, and the overall armor is no longer relevant to the game; historically, the side profile of the turret is correct but it needs a face lift because it is too soft
  • DPM on the Pz VII is too light and the side "pockets" should probably be buffed a tad

 

TDs that are bad:

 

  • The Nashorn needs a slight engine buff; shouldn't have the engine tied to that of the Hummel despite of it being on the same hull
  • The Sturer Emil needs the 2nd engine that the VK 30.01 has which is 400 h.p.; that a tier 7 TD built upon the hull of a tier 5 heavy that doesn't have the same engine options as said tier 5 heavy makes no sense
  • Given the nerf and the changes to the game, there isn't much of a point in limiting the traverse radius of the Grille 15 and it should be changed

 

Artillery that are bad:

 

  • GW Panther DPM is horrible and there is no excuse for it

 

Just my opinions, obviously.

 

Mostly agree, but disagree on some points:

E-50 at T9 is not weak, tier for tier. It's still a great tier 9 medium, so I wouldn't prioritize buffing this one. The E-50M on the other hand needs turret armour increase and a small reload buff, everything else is fine imo.

 

Tiger II needs to be moved to tier 7, or it needs the 4502B stock turret with 220mm of frontal armour, and the mobility should be increased. The DPM isn't that bad if you don't compare it to the Caern, which is completely overpowered for T8 heavy dpm in the first place.



zed2204 #28 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 07:33

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JPZ is the worst - give it a smaller gun but better frontal armor ( currently everything penns with gold right in the superstructure
Grille - again smaller gun for better mobility and cammo and fully traversable turret
Leopard - handling and auto reloader comes to mind
E50M - agility
E100 - IDK - but it is not competitive against the new T10HTs for Shure

all need buffs


Edited by zed2204, Apr 17 2018 - 07:33.


_Red_Saaryn_ #29 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 07:51

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View Postsleeper_agent, on Apr 16 2018 - 18:35, said:

Which German tier X has been left behind to be the unattended, glue sniffing window licker ???

 

E100?

GRILLE 15?

 

What tier X German tank do you think has been neglected long enough?

The grille needs a better dispersion, that ones that shows in the statistics, those are fake. just like the Lowe many shots go crazy and away from the circle even if this is fully closed and pointing the center of mass of the enemy tank so better aim or better pen. Maybe better dpm? Like it used to be (t67 but for tier 10 XD )


Edited by _Red_Saaryn_, Apr 17 2018 - 07:52.


TankFullOfBourbon #30 Posted Apr 17 2018 - 07:52

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Leopard 1.

jairogut #31 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 17:44

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The Leopard 1 could get some love... still we use it well...I guess the E100 needs some lower plate or turret buff.  I share with you guys a CW battle played against a top clan using only german tanks: 


Edited by jairogut, Apr 18 2018 - 17:45.


sleeper_agent #32 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 18:02

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View Postjairogut, on Apr 18 2018 - 11:44, said:

The Leopard 1 could get some love... still we use it well...I guess the E100 needs some lower plate or turret buff.  I share with you guys a CW battle played against a top clan using only german tanks: 

 

cool replay. thanks. great work on that hill!!!

Edited by sleeper_agent, Apr 18 2018 - 18:02.


jairogut #33 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 18:34

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View Postsleeper_agent, on Apr 18 2018 - 18:02, said:

 

cool replay. thanks. great work on that hill!!!

 

Thank you! We do our best. We only run German tanks as you noticed in our channel. Thus we can say a bit about BUFFS/ NERFS in German Tanks

FlakKnight #34 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 18:35

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If they improved the gun handling on the Leopard to be the laser it used to be before the general accuracy nerf, it would at least have a niche.  In practical terms, it's really no better than the STB-1.

Personally I would do the following for this class of tanks:

Leo 1= best gun handling medium in game, no armor, decent dpm
STB-1 = ok gun handling, high dpm, buff it to historical 12° depression and very effective mantlet at extreme depressions but otherwise low armor
30b = mediocre gun handling, highest dpm, usable depression, usable mantlet armor (effectively unchanged I think)

At least then they all have their "niche" within this otherwise useless class of tanks.

Kelly_Sereda #35 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 19:45

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View PostxxBigbacon, on Apr 16 2018 - 21:45, said:

 

St Emil could use a buff to the mantlet. Give it some thing when trying to use the depression. its just a huge punching bag.

 

I was told it gets better after Sturer, but I couldn't bear to play as long as it would take to find out.  Abandoned that line there.  There is no redeeming value to that tank - gun is derpy and sloppy, 0 armour, slow.  No good from far, no good from close.  You just park at the back and hope for a good team.

xxBigbacon #36 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 19:50

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View PostKelly_Sereda, on Apr 18 2018 - 19:45, said:

 

I was told it gets better after Sturer, but I couldn't bear to play as long as it would take to find out.  Abandoned that line there.  There is no redeeming value to that tank - gun is derpy and sloppy, 0 armour, slow.  No good from far, no good from close.  You just park at the back and hope for a good team.

 

I am odd. I really liked the Emil. It REALLY taught how to read the map and try to react in advance of what was going on. You either got it right or you got left behind and kill or left behind as your team cleans up and then killed by the last pesky tank holding out cause you were alone in the back.

_Gungrave_ #37 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 19:54

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View PostDuqe, on Apr 16 2018 - 18:37, said:

Jg. Pz. E-100 comes to mind.

 

But then again, all tier 10 light tanks need buffs, too.

 

Imagine if the E100 had angled turret face where the angles slow outwards to the side rather than up and down.

 

Have fun penning the turret then lol



o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7 #38 Posted Apr 19 2018 - 05:58

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def not the LEO1. it is the best performing tank in this game and so OP it needs to be nerfed. it manages to keep the global winrate of the 268 at almost 60%. if they buff the leo, the 268 will collapse down to the leos current global of 10%. we cant have that. 

 

more vodka!



o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7 #39 Posted Apr 19 2018 - 06:00

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View Postjairogut, on Apr 18 2018 - 17:44, said:

The Leopard 1 could get some love... still we use it well...I guess the E100 needs some lower plate or turret buff.  I share with you guys a CW battle played against a top clan using only german tanks: 

 

"top clan" dear god. pls run leos vs a proper clan.. like... 4th rate clan like youjo or awoo or something like that. id say MAWHO but even i cant go that far as suggesting you do this against them

 

yellows fighting reds. kkkk legit kkk top clan my god. enough forum for the night. i need to bathe



jairogut #40 Posted Apr 19 2018 - 17:11

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View Posto7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7, on Apr 19 2018 - 06:00, said:

 

"top clan" dear god. pls run leos vs a proper clan.. like... 4th rate clan like youjo or awoo or something like that. id say MAWHO but even i cant go that far as suggesting you do this against them

 

yellows fighting reds. kkkk legit kkk top clan my god. enough forum for the night. i need to bathe

 

Well for me a top clan is a clan rated among the top 20. And i just posted it as an example of how accurate the german guns are. 




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