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Be-All and End-All fix for arty.


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BillT #61 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 16:40

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View Postawildseaking, on Apr 17 2018 - 20:32, said:

It is insanely hypocritical that people have complained about arty OHKs for years, but now that it only happens to LTs and lightly armored tanks (who incidentally happen to camp a whole lot less) it's fine and dandy to permit dice rolls that remove you from the game.

 

???

 

The most common way to take a OHK is to get hit by a derp gun from a Sherman, a KV-2, a Japanese heavy tank, or the 183mm FV 215(B) or FV 4005.  And they do it with regularity, not just when all their stars line up for maximum luck.



SkaerKrow #62 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 16:43

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It’s actually an interesting idea, but of course the arty sycophants are here making noise about it. 

Kenshin2kx #63 Posted Apr 18 2018 - 17:56

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View PostSplatterMonkey77, on Apr 18 2018 - 04:37, said:

 

Well said.  This precisely mirrors my own thinking, though I couldn't have explained it nearly so well.

 

And yeah, I do play arty... but then, I play everything. Not well, necessarily ...

 

Same  ... except I don't play arty ... but i do think there is room for reasonable and inclusive compromise within the context of WG class endorsement (which, while somewhat perplexing at times, still stands to this day).  As for the OP's idea ... personally, I'd say its novel (at least for me) ... but it needs to be hashed out further ... a hard limit on being actually able to fire can become almost comical if willfully abused or subverted.  Imagine some griefer ... intent on nudging the artillery to prevent fire?  So in essence you have a way to neutralize arty without an out right kill or even very much damage if careful ... just synchronize an oopsie nudge ... pause nudge ... pause ...

Edited by Kenshin2kx, Apr 18 2018 - 18:07.


awildseaking #64 Posted Apr 19 2018 - 04:00

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View PostBillT, on Apr 18 2018 - 10:40, said:

???

 

The most common way to take a OHK is to get hit by a derp gun from a Sherman, a KV-2, a Japanese heavy tank, or the 183mm FV 215(B) or FV 4005.  And they do it with regularity, not just when all their stars line up for maximum luck.

 

Arty OHKs on lights and lightly armored tanks are a lot more regular than you suggest, especially if you're +2 in arty. T8 arty with 1000 alpha and 50 pen shooting T6 lights and TDs with 600 health and 20mm plates? It's OHK city. I don't play arty except for missions, but it's absolute cancer from what I've played. I don't even have high tier or high alpha arty (I have the Crusader SP) and I OHK T6 lights and TDs all the time. And if I don't OHK them, I take off 80-90% of their health and make them one shot to everyone.

Edited by awildseaking, Apr 19 2018 - 04:04.


Shortcult #65 Posted Apr 19 2018 - 06:58

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View PostBillT, on Apr 17 2018 - 10:35, said:

 

If I could roll back the clock to beta, here's how I would do arty. 

 

Option A: an off-map arty battery is a piece of equipment (perhaps only mountable on light tanks) that takes 2 or 3 slots.  It basically turns the tank into an arty forward observer.  He has control of a 4-gun battery of artillery (of a caliber matched to his tank's tier) that can shoot anywhere on the map, with shots falling at a sharp angle, but spread over a realistically large pattern area (roughly 1 grid square in size).  He can target the barrage anywhere, as long as he has line of sight to at least part of the target area.

Once he designates the target it takes 30 seconds for the off-map battery to aim and load.  After that, the spotter can call for a fire mission and the shells start arriving in 5 seconds or so (time of flight).  The entire battery keeps firing at its maximum rate of fire until the spotter tells them to cease fire, scattering shells randomly in the target area but concentrated somewhat toward the center.  Shell damage and burst radius would be similar to what they are now; maybe less alpha at high tier, but larger burst radius at low tier.  After ceasing fire, the spotter can designate a new target area and re-start the 30 second clock.

 

Additional complexities could be added; sound and flash detecting gear to spot enemy batteries so you can target them with counterbattery fire, and ordering your own batteries to spend 1-2 minutes displacing to avoid being CB'd if they get spotted.

 

Examples: US 105mm howitzers could fire 2-4 rounds per minute sustained, or up to 10 rounds per minute for a very short period.  But this is WOT, and these guns should fire just as fast as any turret-mounted 105mm gun because they have a larger crew and more room to work.  WOT gives the 105mm in the Sherman 7.5 rounds per minute, so let's use that.  With four tubes firing that 30 rounds per minute - one round every two seconds - falling in a single grid square.  Let's say that's 100m x 100m, or 10,000 sq meters, so that's one shell per 333 sq m.  If they were evenly distributed that means each 18 meter square would receive one hit, (but figure triple that in the center of the pattern and half that at the edges). I can't find any online data for splash radius but it's certainly much less than 18 meters.  Most of the area inside the target zone would not actually take any damage, and most damage you do take would be at the edges of the burst radius.  This wouldn't be devastating.  It would probably keep everything in the zone stunned, and would do a lot of track damage.   If arty starts to fall around you you'll definitely want to leave the area, but you don't necessarily have to. 

 

Option B is just like Option A except that there's actually an artillery track, separate from the light tank track.   The arty player drives a dedicated spotting vehicle on the game map.  It's very stealthy and quick, but fights like a light tank 2-3 tiers below its tier.  You can defend yourself in a pinch, but that's all.   This might be easier to balance than option A, and it wouldn't require spending a fortune on equipment modules to get started, so it's more accessible to new players beginning at Tier 3 or so.  And option B could still be implemented today, though I'm not sure how many SPG players would feel robbed if their SPGs were replaced with bad light tanks and  a whole new play style.

 

This answers many complaints.  You'd have to be paranoid to think the arty is targeting you specifically, so there's less to rage about.  Because the spotting vehicle needs line of sight to the target area, it eliminates the complaint that "I can't possibly return fire against the arty".  Now it's like dealing with a well-hidden TD; you can blind fire suspected positions and hit him, or at least make him run away, and he'll be close enough to the front that an aggressive light tank might spot him.  The spotter also has to move, because he can't spot the whole map from any single position.  The SPG player now needs to develop crew skills (off-road driving, repair, recon, sit. aware.) that are normally worthless in an SPG.   


It would be hard to hit fast-moving tanks with this, and even if you did they wouldn't spend much time in the danger zone unless you get lucky and track them early in the barrage.  But you can use it for area denial, making it dangerous for the enemy to advance in one area or to prevent a light tank from passively sitting in, or repeatedly driving through, an area, partially blinding the enemy.

 

Although it would cost me a lot of vehicles etc if put into practice now, I like A better than B.  I think there would need to be some tuning of the damage (a zero damage result should be nigh impossible) and I think the time to call for another module of fire would need to be more than 30 seconds.  Perhaps a built in or purchasable ammo count to prevent constant steel rain?

BillT #66 Posted Apr 19 2018 - 18:53

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View PostShortcult, on Apr 19 2018 - 00:58, said:

 

Although it would cost me a lot of vehicles etc if put into practice now, I like A better than B.  I think there would need to be some tuning of the damage (a zero damage result should be nigh impossible) and I think the time to call for another module of fire would need to be more than 30 seconds.  Perhaps a built in or purchasable ammo count to prevent constant steel rain?

 

Good points, both.  The "refresh" time can be adjusted to suit, and you're right, you have to make the arty ammunition cost something or it invites tactics like "I'll use my arty non-stop to block the 1-2 corridor, while we all lemming-rush the 9-line.

 

That probably means that you need to fix the barrage duration to, say, maximum of 30 seconds or one minute, followed by a 1+ minute cooldown.   Which is good - arty couldn't use its sustained rate of fire more than a couple of minutes before overheating their barrels.



Kerosedge #67 Posted Apr 19 2018 - 19:08

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View PostSalty_Socks, on Apr 17 2018 - 01:36, said:

Arty is supposed to punish those that camp right? Those that are moving around a lot from grid square to grid square aren’t camping.

 

So I present the ultimate fix for arty. Make it so they can’t fire until they are fully aimed in. This way, people that are moving around a lot, are safe from arty, and those that aren’t, are punished by arty. Just like how the mechanic was intended to be used.

 

Show me a flaw with this idea.

 

Protip: You can’t.

That'd be completely unfair to any player. Don't see KV2s, Type 5s having to stop to aim. They're pretty much artillery pretending to be tanks. 

 

No go, besides. I like hitting lights and mediums on the move. Makes them painfully aware that I'm watching them. 






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