70 replies to this topic

[AltSeagullBBM]

With the new 1.0 patch I thought I would make a return to wot.  The last time I played this game I had the pleasure of representing North America in Moscow Russia for their first ever world championship.

 

My first impressions on return is that the graphics are quite nice, especially the water.  The new tank physics is also very nice and it was great to see all of the new tank lines.  It is a true joy to be able to simulate riding around in a tank that the chieftain does such a great job making videos of.

 

However even after a few hours of playing the ugly side of WOT began to show it's ugly head and reminded me of why this game is no longer relevant/up to current standards and does not deserve room on your hard-drive.

 

This company seems to lack a basic understanding of how to balance (both in this game and in world of warships).  The new sweedish TD line is an excellent example.  They put giant derp/brawler style guns with horrible accuracy on tank chassis that have no armor and no hit points: meaning you have to knife fight with a tank that has no turret, no armor, and a poor hit point pool.  Meaning you have to rely almost solely on the horrible play of your opponents in order to have a good game.  Luckily though the player skill in this game is very poor:  XVM shows most players well bellow 50% win rate.

 

Every map (though nicely detailed) has an almost identical game play.  In each map there are 3 defined avenues of attack and choke points.  When combined with the REALLY bad spotting system means that most games either wind up with one team completely dominating the other or games where people barley leave their starting point.  Unfortunately in world of tanks it is completely viable to sit back in your base until there are only a few minutes left in the match.  

 

The camping in this game could be easily fixed if they changed artillery from a direct all or nothing damage model to an area of effect Damage-over-time which would force campers out of their choke points.  However after so many years I doubt they will make any changes.

 

The gun play is still EXTREMELY random.  You might as well roll the dice when shooting a target to see if the shell will penetrate, or even go where you aim it.  Combine this with premium shells and it is EXTREMELY frustrating.  You can bounce a high tier TD shell in a medium tank, and just as easily get penetrated in the front while driving a heavy.  The best you can do is put your tank in a position where you have a stronger likely hood of success.  This company REALLY loves to put a huge emphasis on randomness in the most important part of the game, the gunplay:  Unfortunately this removes a large part of the skill; and only gets worse as players progress up the tiers.  

 

The two tier difference in tanks in games.  There is simply to much of a difference in Hit points and firepower.  A tier 4 tank has no business fighting a tier 6 with double the hit points and armor.  ESPECIALLY when the other tank has more firepower and speed.  As a result a good player (top tier) can easily steam roll an entire area of the map.  This results in most games being won or lost simply by whoever has the better skilled top tier tank.  A good player in a bottom tier tank "can" make a difference, but a good player in a top tank is damn near unbeatable.

 

Lastly I suspect that there is some sort of matchmaking algorithm that puts players with good stats consistently in the bottom tier of the battle.  I began keeping track and confirmed this.  In my last two days of playing it put me in the bottom tier nearly double the amount of times that it placed me in the top tier.

 

My final conclusion is that the game has made progress (especially in the cosmetic areas) over the years, however not in the areas that really matter: Game play and balance. As a result this game is best suited for nostalgia and historical reference.  When one considers the expensive micro transactions and ridiculously expensive premium tanks I would not consider this game well balanced or a good value.

 

The best part of this game can be found here:  https://www.youtube....ftainWoT/videos

 

 

 

 

[CapPhrases]

that's not an algorithm, that's just 3/5/7 man

 

[AltSeagullBBM]

What is 3-5-7?

[CapPhrases]

how matches are made these days

3 top tier tanks

5 mid tier tanks

and 7 bottom tier tanks

WG made it the preferred way of creating a match and it's lead to the problems you've outlined

[FluffyBadBad]

and not one mention of power creep

[Bob_5000]

Yes, we are all subject to being bottom tier most of the time, lol. Play a tier 9 or 10, thats it. 

[ThEHaChA]

HAHAHAHAHAHA swedish tds are bad HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[uberdice]

OP, what do you mean when you say that Swedish TDs have "giant derp/brawler style guns with horrible accuracy"? Are you looking at the same Swedish TDs as the rest of us?

[Pipinghot]

AltSeagullBBM, on Apr 17 2018 - 02:00, said:

Luckily though the player skill in this game is very poor:  XVM shows most players well bellow 50% win rate.

That has always been true, even when you were playing, because this is a game that has draws. The average Win Rate on the NA server is currently 48.87%, but what that doesn't tell you is that the average Loss Rate is also about 48.9% with about 2.25% Draws. Since draws do not count towards your Win Rate that means that the average Win Rate has always been below 50%, since the very first day of this game, a fact that a serious player of the game should have known.

 

That has nothing to do with the player skill in this game, it's just basic math.

 

If you can find a way to empirically demonstrate that the average player skill in this game is lower than other games, more power to you, but based on your basic math error that doesn't seem likely.

AltSeagullBBM, on Apr 17 2018 - 02:00, said:

When combined with the REALLY bad spotting system means that most games either wind up with one team completely dominating the other or games where people barley leave their starting point.  Unfortunately in world of tanks it is completely viable to sit back in your base until there are only a few minutes left in the match.

You might still not like the spotting system, but it's worth noting that it's been significantly improved since the early days. Where the spotting range of a tank used to be a square that allowed people to cheese the spotting system by finding spots with better diagonal spotting opportunities, the current spotting system is based on a true  circular radius around the tank, meaning that the system cannot be cheesed the way that early players did it. The fact that the spotting system is truly equal in all directions now has improved the learning curve and put players on a more level playing field. Again, you don't have to like spotting in WoT, but you at least need to be made aware that it has been significantly improved.

AltSeagullBBM, on Apr 17 2018 - 02:00, said:

Lastly I suspect that there is some sort of matchmaking algorithm that puts players with good stats consistently in the bottom tier of the battle.  I began keeping track and confirmed this.  In my last two days of playing it put me in the bottom tier nearly double the amount of times that it placed me in the top tier.

So you make a post where you try to rest on your credentials from many years ago (6, 7, 8?) to pass judgement on the game, but you didn't do even the most basic research to find out what changes they've made and more importantly to understand why those changes were made. Even the most recent 6 month n00b player knows about the 3-5-7 MM system, but somehow that completely escaped you.

 

Not a very impressive approach to reviewing a game.

AltSeagullBBM, on Apr 17 2018 - 02:00, said:

My final conclusion is that the game has made progress (especially in the cosmetic areas) over the years, however not in the areas that really matter: Game play and balance. As a result this game is best suited for nostalgia and historical reference.  When one considers the expensive micro transactions and ridiculously expensive premium tanks I would not consider this game well balanced or a good value.

And you're definitely entitled to dislike any game of your choosing, but your approach to revisiting this one was slipshot at best. If you had played a dozen games and said, "I still don't like it" that would be perfectly valid because you're just talking about how you feel about the game. But instead you tried to use your very old, very out of date knowledge to review and pass judgement without learning even the most basic information about how the game currently works.

 

The fact that you represented NA at the first world championships is very cool, in no way do I want to take that away from you, but it's clear that your current knowledge of the game is nowhere close to what you once had.

AltSeagullBBM, on Apr 17 2018 - 02:00, said:

The best part of this game can be found here:  https://www.youtube....ftainWoT/videos

Too true, he has always been great, no one can argue with that.

[ThEHaChA]

and it seems that you only played tier 4-6 battles, the meta on all the maps has changed, and in those battles using the same tactics as the old version of the map are just noobs that are on a lemming train

and the MM has changed for good, for what i heard is that in the past a tier 4 would fight against tier 8s

and i'm surprised that you didn't comment about the normal things that people complain: arty, gold ammo, and japanese heavies

[ThEHaChA]

uberdice, on Apr 17 2018 - 11:53, said:

OP, what do you mean when you say that Swedish TDs have "giant derp/brawler style guns with horrible accuracy"? Are you looking at the same Swedish TDs as the rest of us?

 

he is talking about the tier 4 and 5 swedish tds, and i'm surprised that i do better on those tanks than a WOT champion

[uberdice]

ThEHaChA, on Apr 17 2018 - 18:27, said:

he is talking about the tier 4 and 5 swedish tds, and i'm surprised that i do better on those tanks than a WOT champion

 

So then it's pretty dishonest to make such a claim about the line and act as if it's some kind of symptom of poor design or balance when he's barely halfway through the tree. He's pointing it out as the "best example" when it's been obvious since the start that progression tiers are hardly given as much balancing attention as end game tiers.

[ThEHaChA]

uberdice, on Apr 17 2018 - 12:13, said:

 

So then it's pretty dishonest to make such a claim about the line and act as if it's some kind of symptom of poor design or balance when he's barely halfway through the tree. He's pointing it out as the "best example" when it's been obvious since the start that progression tiers are hardly given as much balancing attention as end game tiers.

 

and those tier 4  and 5 tds are a beast in the battlefield

[ColonelShakes]

Your stats dropped so hard it looks like you bought the account.  All of your high battle count tanks are padders.  That being said you do not appear to like the 'new' game. 

 

Do you have some replays to share from your world champ days ? Those would be cool to see, especially the graphics.  

[Shrike58]

uberdice, on Apr 17 2018 - 03:23, said:

OP, what do you mean when you say that Swedish TDs have "giant derp/brawler style guns with horrible accuracy"? Are you looking at the same Swedish TDs as the rest of us?

 

They have to mean the heavies...but you'd think this person would help their credibility by trying to, you know, edit their post.

 

This is keeping in mind that it is hard to recommend this game to someone just starting out right now.

Edited by Shrike58, Apr 17 2018 - 12:20.

[Blackhorse_One_]

AltSeagullBBM, on Apr 17 2018 - 02:00, said:

My final conclusion ...

 

Beta Tester with just 9100 battles ...

 

Where were you between 9100 and this morning?

Month's pay says current active players who are reasonably astute already know all this far more intimately than you do, so you aren't telling us anything we don't already know.

That does not mean there will be alot of folks here who agree with you.

Edited by Blackhorse_One_, Apr 18 2018 - 04:01.

[brianc53]

uberdice, on Apr 17 2018 - 09:23, said:

OP, what do you mean when you say that Swedish TDs have "giant derp/brawler style guns with horrible accuracy"? Are you looking at the same Swedish TDs as the rest of us?

 

Do you think there's any chance the OP played the Tier 8 STRV S1 or UDES and didn't understand the siege mechanic?  I know others said he played lower tiers, but if he played those tanks with the siege mechanic - and then didn't use the siege mechanic - it would explain why he felt it was not accurate.

[uberdice]

brianc53, on Apr 17 2018 - 20:51, said:

 

Do you think there's any chance the OP played the Tier 8 STRV S1 or UDES and didn't understand the siege mechanic?  I know others said he played lower tiers, but if he played those tanks with the siege mechanic - and then didn't use the siege mechanic - it would explain why he felt it was not accurate.

 

That'd be pretty hard considering it puts a huge glowing notification on your screen to press X to enter siege mode the first few times you take it out.

[Blackstone]

I'm not impressed....

[FrozenKemp]

brianc53, on Apr 17 2018 - 05:51, said:

Do you think there's any chance the OP played the Tier 8 STRV S1 or UDES and didn't understand the siege mechanic?  I know others said he played lower tiers, but if he played those tanks with the siege mechanic - and then didn't use the siege mechanic - it would explain why he felt it was not accurate.

 

If the OP did, he had to do it on an alt account.  AltSeagullBBM has gotten as far as tier 6 in the Swedish TD line.