15 replies to this topic

[Gnomon]

Hey everyone,

 

Hope that you're all having a great day!

 

Today, we are releasing the second Common Test for Update 1.01.

 

Here are some quick details: 

 

Update 1.0.1 Common Test Two Changes

- Changes to the Frontline mode

 

- Changes to the technical characteristics of the following vehicles

    - P.44 Pantera (Tier VIII)

    - Prototipo Standard B (Tier IX)

    - Progetto M40 mod. 65 (Tier X)

 

The full details of the most recent changes can be found here: Update 1.0.1 Common Test Two

 

Here are the full notes for the Test: Update 1.0.1 Common Test

 

Please be sure to share your feedback over the 1.0.1 here. Every little bit helps! 

 

See you all out on the battlefield! 

Edited by Gnomon, Apr 19 2018 - 19:10.
Grammar is hard

[ThatTrafficCone]

Notice: This uses data from the FIRST iteration of 1.0.1 test server. Also, incoming wall of text and Excel spreadsheet data.

 

So I've found the new autoreloading mechanism doesn't quite work as intended. For anyone unaware, an autoreloader is a kind of hybrid between autoloaders and the single-fire tanks we're used to. The autoloading drum, well, automatically reloads after a shell is fired. However, if you fire before the shell reloads, that shell is lost and you must start over, and with a slightly longer reload. The intention behind this mechanic was to make it so if you play the tank like an autoloader (dump every shell in the drum), it would have a longer reload than the average autoloader of its tier. Similarly, if you were to play the tank like a conventional single-fire tank, it would have worse DPM than the average tank of its tier. To really get an advantage out of this mechanic, you would need to juggle the number of shells in your drum.

 

To illustrate this, imagine your drum has three shells in it. If you fire one or all shells, you would have below-average DPM. But if you fire only two shells and only two shells, your DPM is higher than average. This means that if you can keep your gun singing fast enough to always have no more nor less than one shell in your drum, your DPM will be higher than your peers. Otherwise, it will be lower. But that's not quite how it works in practice...

 

In practice, the amount of time it takes to reload each shell increases with every fewer shell there is in your drum. This is a downward trend which causes your DPM to decrease the more you fire, and there's none of that magic DPM "bump" in the middle. At best, this gives you an average single-shot tank that doubles as a bad autoloader (as with the Progetto 46 and Pantera), or a complete pile of trash (as with the Standard B and Progetto 65). The recent changes in this second test version don't really address this and the high-tier Italians are still underperforming. So how might we fix this?

 

To begin with, here's a simple table detailing the average DPM of autoloaders and non-autoloaders by Mediums and overall tier. I excluded premium tanks and only used tanks in their top configurations (no derp guns) which fired standard AP/APCR shells. Use this as reference with the images to follow.

 

Tier	Average DPM of Mediums (autoloader)	Average DPM of Mediums (single fire)	Average DPM of same tier (autoloader)	Average DPM of same tier (single fire)	Average DPM of overall class (combined)	Average DPM of overall tier (combined)
VIII	1806.19	1942.7	1738.09	2215.28	1874.45	1976.69
IX	2159.2	2506.54	2136.56	2360.86	2426.38	2248.71
X	2517.03	2892.04	2552.31	2556	2704.53	2554.16

 

Now here's the first image detailing the DPM of the high-tier Italian tanks in their current states.

 

 

The (Drum - Intra) column isn't necessarily important, but it's worth mentioning that the values in those columns must be greater than 0. If a number is 0 or negative, than it means you're trying to load a shell into the gun's breach faster than it can be loaded into the drum; something you obviously can't do. This is tied to the intra-shell reload which isn't necessarily related.

 

But what's important are the colored bars are the right of each table. They compare the tanks' DPM to the averages as described in previous table. The rows describe the tank's average DPM if compared to the average DPM of their peers. The top row would be if you were using the tank like a single-shot tank, and the bottom row would be if you were dumping the entire drum as quickly as you could like an autoloader. The numbers in these rows are supposed to be smaller than the DPM of their peers, while the middle row(s) are supposed to have larger numbers. Or, in other words:

 

> Green is good

> Red is bad

 

Notice how *every* tank fails at achieving the desired effect of the autoreloading mechanic. Ideally, every bar in that side table would be green. To make this happen, we're going to need to adjust the values of the intra-clip reload for each shell. That specifically is the fourth column in the main tables.

 

This image uses some example modified values to achieve the desired effect of the mechanic.

 

 

As you can see, this requires shorting the length of the in-between reloads in relation to the first and last reloads. It might not make too much sense in reality, but this is a video game after all. On paper and in practice, this simple rearrangement should be able to achieve the desired effect the developers originally intended. It might be too late to save the Progetto 46 since it's a Premium, but the rest of these Italian tanks can still be fixed while the test server is up.

Edited by ThatTrafficCone, Apr 19 2018 - 21:20.

[atcnh6034545]

So how do you play Front Line exactly? and is it only available to play on a certain day with this interation??

[Gnomon]

ThatTrafficCone, on Apr 19 2018 - 14:18, said:

Notice: This uses data from the FIRST iteration of 1.0.1 test server. Also, incoming wall of text and Excel spreadsheet data.

Oh, wow, thanks for the write-up! Super-detailed stuff like that is great for the feedback I gather. I really appreciate the effort you put into this 

 

atcnh6034545, on Apr 19 2018 - 14:26, said:

So how do you play Front Line exactly? and is it only available to play on a certain day with this interation??

 

 

 I am unable to provide exact times that you can play it, as the mode isn't always available in the client. However, Frontline will sometimes show up in-game throughout the test. This is a blurb from the 1.0.1 Common Test notes: 

"Frontline Returns: The mode will be available on a temporary basis and will occasionally appear in the game"

[Shaddow_Ghost]

Gnomon, I think everyone agrees with ThatTrafficCone, the Italian line is severely underperforming compared to other mediums, both autoloading and standard. I think his solution would be an interesting path to take, making the middle shell reloads less, that way the tank would still underperform as single shot, and as full clip. The tanks just don't have the armour to be effective with horrid dpm. I would be ok with current state if the tanks were given a small armour buff, especially to the turrets. The turrets melt to everything tier 7 and up. Or a significant accuracy buff. Make them snipers. You can't have horrid dpm, horrid armour and be expected to play up close and personal. The tanks just can't be bad at everything.. autoreloading flexibility just doesn't make up for it enough.

[Butane9000]

I'm not in the common test but would like to ask why the change to Frontline being a limited time only event. 

 

The game definitely needs more variety in it's game mode options and Frontline seems like a great addition. Having watched Quickybaby's youtube video of the original tier 10 I like some of the changes to the mode like smoke lines, airstrikes and other features. Gameplay changes made since such as reusable consumables are also a welcome change and will go a long way to helping the economy of the game mode.

 

I also really liked the rampage game mode when it was out. The problem is at the time In didn't have any tier 10s and limited tier 8s so I had to play for the rentals and those weren't necessarily the best choices for the game mode and newer players. However with Frontline now being tier 8 that should be significantly easier.

[deus_X1]

Thrilled to try out the tier 8 frontline mode. 

The best change about this mode is the magical Tier VIII only!! Yes baby! Current tier 8 is garbage in situations where you need to fight the top dogs T95, Obj 430, Obj257 and other monsters. Although I do love to munch on Tier 8s when I am in a Tier X, it's a satisfying opening coca cola moment, you just DPM them and they are completely useless. 

Progetto M65 needs DPM buff.

[NeinCat]

Ever since the second iteration, my game client crashes every single time...what gives?

[Austin8585]

NeinCat, on Apr 21 2018 - 06:40, said:

Ever since the second iteration, my game client crashes every single time...what gives?

 

Same here.  This 2nd one as soon as the battle starts boom ctd.  Happened 3 times in row trying frontline and I gave up.  I even tried to reload into battle, and wham ctd again.

[9435]

Not sure what you stupid [edited]heads at WG did, but this updated CT kills my graphics card.  I play 1.0.0 on ultimate settings 1080ti GC will 11 gig,  Typical WG though, to release something that breaks your computer.  Not the first time they've killed a computer with there game.

[Spotify_Premium]

Do something about the hatches on the M60 and T95E6. They have the same problem the M48A1 did. You replaced it with the A5 turret and the problem was solved.

[Huskertank]

I am not all that excited about the Italian tanks as the meta in wot has devolved to slugging it out on corridor maps.  However, Frontline brings back the option to play your tank according to it's specific designed role.  You have an amazing opportunity here.  Arty is still played, mostly by trolls.  However in most games they have little impact as it should be.  The other tank types have ample opportunity to flow through the battle focusing on positions that  cater to their specific tank.  Rotating tiers and some additional maps would make Frontline into a real option for veteran players who are burnt out on the face to face bash fest that has become the random battle game mode.  Rolling this mode in at tier 8 is fantastic as currently when you play tier 8, you are rarely more than fodder versus tanks like the Type 5 and 268-4.  Please bring this game mode live as part of the next patch and make it a staple of WOT going forward.  It would provide a real reason to want to play for the many...many veteran players who are just sick of the random, pubby mess that is currently the random battle mode.

[docroberts]

As it sits now , Im PO!! with the game play . Tier 8 isnt worth playing now . Since the server merger my PR rating has taken a massive dump from it . It's dropped over 100 points and you cant recoup . The cost of things was outrages before , now its impossible . And to distract everyone now we have HD  and new Russian tanks  . But all this prettiness still doesn't address the one sided losses and how badly the team makeup is .  My own clan mates are just as fed up . In fact the amount of players has dropped . Tanks you love to play then you changed those to where there almost impossible  . You ppl have cheated players like me over and over again , via game changes , or nerfs , Lost silver due to tank changes ( Couple patches Ive lost a couple mill just due to the changes and you dont reimburse me back each patch ) or flat out taken my tanks , moved them to other lines so we have to waste more time and energy to go back and research the new line to get to the tanks we originally started to go after . Doing so cheats me out of my TIME , GOLD , XP , SILVER , PREEM TIME , GARAGE SLOTS , PREEM CAMO ON THOSE TANKS , AMMO and such .   I'm at the point asking WHAT IS THE POINT NOW ? I will give you credit the maps do look good , still needs a few tweaks like Fisherman's bay cause if your in a very slow tank you cant get to cover before your hit and taken out and left with a stupid repair bill and again not a dang thing to show for it except to pay hard earned silver back .  I dont care about the Italians , Nobody's really looking forwards for them except players , the few long term players left or allot of the newer players that are oblivious how to use them to start with . My point is I just dont care anymore , im done with caring about the game . 

[Mikosah]

In complete seriousness, I have to ask why the new Italian autoloaders need to have dynamic reload times at all. Why not just have all shells in the magazine load at the same rate? This way balancing relative to conventional single-shot and autoloading guns would become much easier. Also, why does this mechanic only exist between tiers 8-10? Couldn't mid-tier tanks in the line be given alternate guns with the auto-refill feature? 

[Avalon304]

Mikosah, on Apr 23 2018 - 15:17, said:

In complete seriousness, I have to ask why the new Italian autoloaders need to have dynamic reload times at all. Why not just have all shells in the magazine load at the same rate? This way balancing relative to conventional single-shot and autoloading guns would become much easier. Also, why does this mechanic only exist between tiers 8-10? Couldn't mid-tier tanks in the line be given alternate guns with the auto-refill feature? 

 

Because then they would just be autoloaders but with better sustained DPM, which defeats the purpose of both single shot and autoloading tanks?

 

The reload system is fine (even if the numbers themselves need to be tweaked). Learning how to manage your clip and when to dump vs when to half burst or only fire single shots is going to be part of how these tanks are played.

[Mikosah]

Avalon304, on Apr 24 2018 - 00:31, said:

 

Because then they would just be autoloaders but with better sustained DPM, which defeats the purpose of both single shot and autoloading tanks?

 

The reload system is fine (even if the numbers themselves need to be tweaked). Learning how to manage your clip and when to dump vs when to half burst or only fire single shots is going to be part of how these tanks are played.

 

Compared to any other weapon in game that's an unprecedented level of complexity. Besides, even considering the dynamic load times it still is a single-shot with burst potential, or an autoloader with minimal down time, whichever way you want to think of it. In theory the added penalties DPM look nasty as hell, but in practice its very rare to be presented a viable target and not be worth using as many shells as possible on it because the very next moment will suddenly demand long-term DPM. So even in spite of the theoretical complexity we see here, the reality will be firing as many shells as you have (even if it is just one) and simply recharging as much as possible during whatever down time you're given. Changing to a static reload time isn't going to change that, yet as I said before it could significantly help in simplifying balance decisions. 

 

The far more influential factor is firing when a shell is almost loaded, which resets the reload. Neglecting that little detail will cost players far more DPM than the dynamic reload times ever will.