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Map Mondays: Fjords

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Pongo #21 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 17:28

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in test I had only played it west and thought they had done a great job!..

lol east is a big big issue. A tough heavy can get a spotting location in the ne that totally destroys that corner for the east..

I think they have broken this map really.



n00bfarmer #22 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 19:53

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"Map is has gotten more balanced"? What are you guys smoking? The map is even more biased for the east spawn than it ever was. What kind of messed up logic do you people even use? I guess you don't even play your own game?

Edited by n00bfarmer, Apr 24 2018 - 19:59.


ThePigSheFlies #23 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 20:51

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View PostPongo, on Apr 24 2018 - 11:28, said:

in test I had only played it west and thought they had done a great job!..

lol east is a big big issue. A tough heavy can get a spotting location in the ne that totally destroys that corner for the east..

I think they have broken this map really.

 

they can only really do that, if the west wins central hill.  a single tank on the central hill not only proxy spots everything mid, but has shots up there.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...pigsheflies-t49

 

the enemy team here had sufficient numbers, especially early to deny ups the central hill.  (just me in a T49, and a progetto, which has that low dpm/clip potential).  instead they huddled next to the hill to try to keep me proxy spotted, which enabled my northern allies to harvest them.



AirG #24 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 21:23

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View Postsimba90, on Apr 24 2018 - 01:19, said:

 

Awesome! thank you in advance.

My gameplay on this map has been suffering from west spawn.

 

View Postthandiflight, on Apr 24 2018 - 04:53, said:

This map is now terrible. The SE spawn has a decided advantage. It should be removed rather than you providing a guide.

 

View PostCynicalDutchie, on Apr 24 2018 - 07:07, said:

Fjords is extremely biased towards east spawn now. This map along with Erlenberg and Fisherman's bay have become a lot worse since the 1.0 update.

 

View Postn00bfarmer, on Apr 24 2018 - 19:53, said:

"Map is has gotten more balanced"? What are you guys smoking? The map is even more biased for the east spawn than it ever was. What kind of messed up logic do you people even use? I guess you don't even play your own game?
​http://wotreplays.eu/site/4320055#fjords-airg-centurion_action_x

CynicalDutchie #25 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 21:26

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View PostAirG, on Apr 24 2018 - 21:23, said:

 

How much does Minsk pay you for the "fjords is a gud map" propaganda? 

n00bfarmer #26 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 22:07

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View PostCynicalDutchie, on Apr 24 2018 - 16:26, said:

 

How much does Minsk pay you for the "fjords is a gud map" propaganda? 

 

I didn't watch the vid but I am guessing it is one of the battles that represents the slim minority when the west gets the upper hand, like when the mm rigs one team (west team in this case) with superior top tier tanks in the 3/5/7 template system...or the enemy team from the east spawn is so incompetent that they failed to capitalize on it. Also if they are any purple players getting high scores that rules out the vid because those are like 0.1% of the player-base so it doesn't represent the average player. Just because the west spawn is at a disadvantage doesn't mean that side loses every battle...if they collect win rate data on that map, it would be interesting to see the difference in west vs east spawn win rates. I think we all know which side will be winning more.

Edited by n00bfarmer, Apr 24 2018 - 22:11.


AirG #27 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 22:34

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View PostCynicalDutchie, on Apr 24 2018 - 21:26, said:

 

How much does Minsk pay you for the "fjords is a gud map" propaganda? 


pfft, I wish i got paid, in all seriousness, these are my own opinions.
 

View Postn00bfarmer, on Apr 24 2018 - 22:07, said:

 

I didn't watch the vid but I am guessing it is one of the battles that represents the slim minority when the west gets the upper hand, like when the mm rigs one team (west team in this case) with superior top tier tanks in the 3/5/7 template system...or the enemy team from the east spawn is so incompetent that they failed to capitalize on it. Also if they are any purple players getting high scores that rules out the vid because those are like 0.1% of the player-base so it doesn't represent the average player. Just because the west spawn is at a disadvantage doesn't mean that side loses every battle...if they collect win rate data on that map, it would be interesting to see the difference in west vs east spawn win rates. I think we all know which side will be winning more.

 

please watch it, I believe the problem is that people are still playing Fjords as the "old" fjords. The north has completely changed in terms of gameplay and positioning.

simba90 #28 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 23:04

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View PostAirG, on Apr 24 2018 - 20:23, said:

 

Thanks, that was what I was after. 

The important points for the west are now the corner at F/G4 for hill denial/support) Bush/rock at D4 (again hill vision denial) and the bowl in the C4 region (punish north-east corner pushes). control those points and you stand a chance at shutting down the east.

Now begins that long painful wait for the pubbies to stop rushing E4/5 and stopping there in the opening game.

 

 



ThePigSheFlies #29 Posted Apr 24 2018 - 23:45

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View PostAirG, on Apr 24 2018 - 16:34, said:


 

 

please watch it, I believe the problem is that people are still playing Fjords as the "old" fjords. The north has completely changed in terms of gameplay and positioning.

 

this.

 

the other thing the west can do to effectively counter the east's natural advantage (direction) on the central hill climb is to put an agile medium or even heavy in the "brawling pit" hull down which can deny, or significantly hamper the east's ability to get up that hill.  depending on spawn locations and speed of east's mediums they can and have been denied that hill by a team that is actually willing ton contest it instead of just wringing their hands that 'they got the bad side'

 

one example that comes to mind for me that turned out horrifically is

  • me in my cursed obj430,
  • m46 patton in front of me (better spawn) - he brake checks me right in the middle of the route up to that hill at the first sign of an enemy LT
  • I bump him, get tracked, burn repair kit 
  • T57HT, and Progetto get to that middle overwatch area and harvest us both...

 

at roughly the blue circle here:



AirG #30 Posted Apr 25 2018 - 01:44

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For those that are to lazy to download the replay, have the YT form!



PM_Loves_Hoarce #31 Posted Apr 25 2018 - 05:16

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View PostAirG, on Apr 24 2018 - 15:23, said:

 

One good win on west spawn does not make it a balanced map.

Just as a good game on paris doesn't make paris a good map.

East takes the mid tower for free and can dominate both north and tanks that try to push south. In the replay you posted only a t49 was in mid but I bet if the 140 was there it would have been a different result.



scottie_ #32 Posted Apr 25 2018 - 11:04

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Apr 24 2018 - 19:51, said:

 

they can only really do that, if the west wins central hill.  a single tank on the central hill not only proxy spots everything mid, but has shots up there.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...pigsheflies-t49

 

the enemy team here had sufficient numbers, especially early to deny ups the central hill.  (just me in a T49, and a progetto, which has that low dpm/clip potential).  instead they huddled next to the hill to try to keep me proxy spotted, which enabled my northern allies to harvest them.

 

 

 

+1 for this, I've had 3k spotting in a t-54p on that hill proxy spotting the red team.  Whoever wins this hill has a big advantage and the hill is easier to win from the southeast.  Medium tanks with gun depression should always go to this hill from the southeast IMO.  I think the problem from the west is you are 'all in' when you turn that corner to go up the hill, most players aren't going to commit that early in the game.  Easier to stop and take a shot at the enemy that's already at the hill.    



ThePigSheFlies #33 Posted Apr 25 2018 - 14:54

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View Postscottie_, on Apr 25 2018 - 05:04, said:

 

 

 

+1 for this, I've had 3k spotting in a t-54p on that hill proxy spotting the red team.  Whoever wins this hill has a big advantage and the hill is easier to win from the southeast.  Medium tanks with gun depression should always go to this hill from the southeast IMO.  I think the problem from the west is you are 'all in' when you turn that corner to go up the hill, most players aren't going to commit that early in the game.  Easier to stop and take a shot at the enemy that's already at the hill.    

 

to be fair, most players prefer to watch the red line to ensure there is no invasion from an adjacent map.  to me, I view this map as a larger version of mines.  that hill is that important - from the west it's not as tactically important as it is to simply deny the east owning it.

 

and, if I get wrecked early contesting it, well there's always another tank waiting in the garage



DomoSapien #34 Posted Apr 25 2018 - 16:26

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Glad to see all the discussion, everyone! Making sure to compile all your feedback and send it up the chain!

Thanks again for chiming in and participating in the discussion: AirG, ThePigSheFlies, Scottie_, PM_xD, noobfarmer, as well as anyone else I may have missed! I hope y'all enjoyed the guide and someone took something beneficial away from the conversation. 

Any requests for next week's guide? 

Kerchow #35 Posted Apr 25 2018 - 19:41

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The times I have had really good games on this map have all occurred when taking the hill in a light or fast medium. Once or twice I was able to push up onto the hill from the west side because the enemy didn't send a significant force to stop me, and I was still able to do pretty well. The hill commands the map now, I'd say more so than the hill on Mines ever did. The west definitely needs an easier way to get up on the hill.

Pongo #36 Posted Apr 27 2018 - 23:41

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Lost this map from west last night, I was the only tank on my side that went ne, with that middle ridge the friendlies were too far south to engage what I spotted and the enemy took over west foothills road with tree cover.





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