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What a Rigged Joke this Game is at Times


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Urabouttudie #101 Posted May 01 2018 - 13:32

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 30 2018 - 06:19, said:

I have posted my data set multiple times and have load in screenshots for every battle.  I have asked anyone questioning my data to pick any battle at random and I will provide the matching screenshot for any one of them.  still no takers.

 

 If you are getting rigged with a win rate that is closer to average than mine, then why would I not see the same rigging?  If I get a winning streak then why would I not see the same corrective rigging everyone else supposedly sees?  If there is an algorithm in place why would it not apply to me?  Why would an algorithm apply across the server, yet not to any one individual?

 

Here we go with your flip flopping between "manipulated" and "rigged" again.

 

Why don't you be more specific about what is manipulated and what is rigged?  Have i seen preferential MM for my new tanks?  yes.  Have I seen a change in tier placement based on previous bottom tier MM?  yes.    Both also have official WG statements backing it up.   That's the extent of the manipulation I have seen.  Other than that I have never seen any manipulation of battle tier based on past win rates, streaks or anything else..

 

As far as random, that applies to player skill.  A blind selection of players will result in a random distribution of player skill.  It's not only my data that shows this, but every single person who has ever kept track of XVM stats comes to the same conclusion.

 

I have offered anybody the same challenge to gather data and see for themselves.  If you put in half the time you put into the forums you'd already have your answer, but it's clear you have no interest in putting your money where your mouth is.   You are either too lazy, or too afraid, or too much of a troll to find out the truth for yourself, so keep whining, and falling back on logical fallacies to "prove" your point.

 

View PostPipinghot, on Apr 30 2018 - 09:00, said:

I said nothing about sample size in that post, stop being dishonest. Everyone here can scroll up and see that I didn't discuss sample size at all, because sample size was not the problem with your post. One wonders why would say that when everyone here can simply scroll up and see that you're not telling the truth.

If you can't understand basic logic and math, that's your own problem. The fact that you can't properly interpret the graphic that you yourself posted is just further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about and you willfully refuse to learn even when things are explained to you, again, and again, and again.

I'll bet you have a lot of fun with your friends in the Flat Earth Society and the Moon Landing Deniers Club.

 

All of the valid evidence we have indicates that the MM is random. There is zero valid evidence that the MM is rigged. Therefore a reasonable person must assume that the MM is not rigged. That's pretty simple logic that even most children can follow.

Well yes, that's what happens when you're wrong over and over and over again. Everyone who believes in the flat earth theory and everyone who denies the moon landings are also wrong over and over and over again, just like you. You have been given many opportunities to learn from valid information, and yet you refuse to learn because your ego just can't accept the reality that you're wrong. Bummer for you.

You're being dishonest, again. You're trying to twist the context of this conversation into something completely different.

 

There is nothing wrong with using the data of one person if the sample size is large enough and if the data is gathered using proper methods, and that is why Neatoman's data is useful and informative. He has used proper methods of data gathering, he has made his data available for peer review, and he has used proper statistical and logical methods of analyzing his data.

 

As we can all see, I didn't complain about the sample size in your graph, because the sample size was not the problem. The problem with your graph has already been explained, you tried to respond to the actual win rates of the all players as a group with a graph of the estimated chance to win of a single player, which has absolutely no bearing on the point you were responding to. They're both bell curves, but they are bell curves of entirely different subjects. Your graphic would have been just as invalid if you had posted the bell curve of win rates in War Thunder. Technically that is also a bell curve, but just like your image it is entirely unrelated to the point you were responding to.

Our story has always been straight, it's your deliberate twisting of information and dishonest reframing of arguments that's crooked, and always has been.

 

 

 

...that is a whole lotta back-pedaling on the topic of sample size...

 

You guys are comical...

 

So many words, yet none that contain any proof whatsoever to prove your position...

 

No more than anyone else here...

 

Post proof or shut up....and since the thread is now obviously dying...and I hate being the last one left arguing with you silly little trolls

 

I'm going to accept the logical conclusion here and find that you simply do not possess any official, verifiable and therefore valid proof that MM is not being manipulated

 

Once again you have failed to convince me I am wrong.

 

Good job!



455_hero #102 Posted May 01 2018 - 13:47

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View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

 

 

...that is a whole lotta back-pedaling on the topic of sample size...

 

You guys are comical...

 

So many words, yet none that contain any proof whatsoever to prove your position...

 

No more than anyone else here...

 

Post proof or shut up....and since the thread is now obviously dying...and I hate being the last one left arguing with you silly little trolls

 

I'm going to accept the logical conclusion here and find that you simply do not possess any official, verifiable and therefore valid proof that MM is not being manipulated

 

Once again you have failed to convince me I am wrong.

 

Good job!

 

​There can be no verifiable proof based on a document/patent that contains the word "may" in it numerous times. Kinda crazy that charts, stat sheets and opinions have been made on anything with the 'May clause" in it.

Blackstone #103 Posted May 01 2018 - 13:57

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View PostDrWho_, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:41, said:

 

It's def rigged because it heavily favors skilled players over unskilled ones, how's that fair eh ? eh ? eh ?

 

Of course it favors a skilled player. It's because they're SKILLED, not a window-licker.

How is this hard to understand?

If you want to BE better, then learn to GET better....and (hold on folks) you'll WIN more.

It not about being "fair", snowflake. It's about beating the other guy because you're better.



Kliphie #104 Posted May 01 2018 - 14:00

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View PostBlackstone, on May 01 2018 - 07:57, said:

 

Of course it favors a skilled player. It's because they're SKILLED, not a window-licker.

How is this hard to understand?

If you want to BE better, then learn to GET better....and (hold on folks) you'll WIN more.

It not about being "fair", snowflake. It's about beating the other guy because you're better.

 

  You might need to re-calibrate your sarcas-o-meter, friend.  

NeatoMan #105 Posted May 01 2018 - 14:04

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View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

"I refuse to adhere to scientific principles or logical norms in any of my arguments...therefore I am right, and you are wrong"

fixed

 

No point in arguing with someone who won't engage in an honest debate.   You win... you are the biggest troll.



Blackstone #106 Posted May 01 2018 - 14:40

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View PostKliphie, on May 01 2018 - 08:00, said:

 

  You might need to re-calibrate your sarcas-o-meter, friend.  

 

What sarcasm? 

 

In order to BE better, you must LEARN to get better.

 

I know I'm still learning to get better and I know enough to not say the game is rigged, because it isn't. 

 

If it were, how did I go from 48% to 51.5% in win% in a year? Is it because MM and RNGesus decided to let me win? No. In that time, I asked for help on the forums, went to WoT YouTube channels to learn, and put that knowledge into practice. Guess what? My win% went up. Why? Because I got more skilled. MM and RNG has little to do with that at all.

 

Also, I KNOW I'm not the best. I'm barely above average. I can accept when I lose, it's probably something I did or didn't do OR other factors beyond my control: other human beings. Read that again, please.

 

When the "rigged-yellers" accept that 1. you must learn to be better, 2. human randomness is a factor that cannot be quantified in WoT, and 3. MM and RNG have little influence on your outcome, then this entire argument can end. 

 



Kliphie #107 Posted May 01 2018 - 14:41

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View PostBlackstone, on May 01 2018 - 08:40, said:

 

What sarcasm? 

 

In order to BE better, you must LEARN to get better.

 

I know I'm still learning to get better and I know enough to not say the game is rigged, because it isn't. 

 

If it were, how did I go from 48% to 51.5% in win% in a year? Is it because MM and RNGesus decided to let me win? No. In that time, I asked for help on the forums, went to WoT YouTube channels to learn, and put that knowledge into practice. Guess what? My win% went up. Why? Because I got more skilled. MM and RNG has little to do with that at all.

 

Also, I KNOW I'm not the best. I'm barely above average. I can accept when I lose, it's probably something I did or didn't do OR other factors beyond my control: other human beings. Read that again, please.

 

When the "rigged-yellers" accept that 1. you must learn to be better, 2. human randomness is a factor that cannot be quantified in WoT, and 3. MM and RNG have little influence on your outcome, then this entire argument can end. 

 

 

The person you were quoting was being sarcastic in expressing shock that better players play better.  

Blackstone #108 Posted May 01 2018 - 15:17

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View PostKliphie, on May 01 2018 - 08:41, said:

 

The person you were quoting was being sarcastic in expressing shock that better players play better.  

 

:amazed:  Dammit..

 

Oh well, carry on. ;)

 

Unlike the "rigged-yellers", I can admit when I 'm wrong. ;)



24cups #109 Posted May 01 2018 - 15:47

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View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

 

 

...that is a whole lotta back-pedaling on the topic of sample size...

 

You guys are comical...

 

So many words, yet none that contain any proof whatsoever to prove your position...

 

No more than anyone else here...

 

Post proof or shut up....and since the thread is now obviously dying...and I hate being the last one left arguing with you silly little trolls

 

I'm going to accept the logical conclusion here and find that you simply do not possess any official, verifiable and therefore valid proof that MM is not being manipulated

 

Once again you have failed to convince me I am wrong.

 

Good job!

Call me crazy but after reading through all the double talk it comes down to this. 

YOU accuse WG of rigging the MM. I may be way off base BUT isn't it normally incumbent on the ACCUSER to provide the proof of the accusation  ?

That's why the prosecution always goes first in a trial. 



sergeantmine09 #110 Posted May 01 2018 - 15:53

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View Post24cups, on May 01 2018 - 08:47, said:

Call me crazy but after reading through all the double talk it comes down to this. 

YOU accuse WG of rigging the MM. I may be way off base BUT isn't it normally incumbent on the ACCUSER to provide the proof of the accusation  ?

That's why the prosecution always goes first in a trial. 

 

I got proof! My tank got kapowed yesterday. That means it's rigged!

Pipinghot #111 Posted May 01 2018 - 17:58

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View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Apr 30 2018 - 09:00, said:

I said nothing about sample size in that post, stop being dishonest. Everyone here can scroll up and see that I didn't discuss sample size at all, because sample size was not the problem with your post. One wonders why would say that when everyone here can simply scroll up and see that you're not telling the truth.

If you can't understand basic logic and math, that's your own problem. The fact that you can't properly interpret the graphic that you yourself posted is just further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about and you willfully refuse to learn even when things are explained to you, again, and again, and again.

I'll bet you have a lot of fun with your friends in the Flat Earth Society and the Moon Landing Deniers Club.

 

All of the valid evidence we have indicates that the MM is random. There is zero valid evidence that the MM is rigged. Therefore a reasonable person must assume that the MM is not rigged. That's pretty simple logic that even most children can follow.

Well yes, that's what happens when you're wrong over and over and over again. Everyone who believes in the flat earth theory and everyone who denies the moon landings are also wrong over and over and over again, just like you. You have been given many opportunities to learn from valid information, and yet you refuse to learn because your ego just can't accept the reality that you're wrong. Bummer for you.

You're being dishonest, again. You're trying to twist the context of this conversation into something completely different.

 

There is nothing wrong with using the data of one person if the sample size is large enough and if the data is gathered using proper methods, and that is why Neatoman's data is useful and informative. He has used proper methods of data gathering, he has made his data available for peer review, and he has used proper statistical and logical methods of analyzing his data.

 

As we can all see, I didn't complain about the sample size in your graph, because the sample size was not the problem. The problem with your graph has already been explained, you tried to respond to the actual win rates of the all players as a group with a graph of the estimated chance to win of a single player, which has absolutely no bearing on the point you were responding to. They're both bell curves, but they are bell curves of entirely different subjects. Your graphic would have been just as invalid if you had posted the bell curve of win rates in War Thunder. Technically that is also a bell curve, but just like your image it is entirely unrelated to the point you were responding to.

Our story has always been straight, it's your deliberate twisting of information and dishonest reframing of arguments that's crooked, and always has been.

 

 

...that is a whole lotta back-pedaling on the topic of sample size...

False again. Stop being dishonest.

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

So many words, yet none that contain any proof whatsoever to prove your position...

 

No more than anyone else here...

First you prove that you've stopped molesting forest animals, then I'll use your same ironclad logic to prove that the MM is not rigged. Since you think you understand how to prove things this should be easy for you.

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

Post proof or shut up....and since the thread is now obviously dying...and I hate being the last one left arguing with you silly little trolls
Another lie, you enjoy being the voice of ignorance and false reasoning.

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

I'm going to accept the logical conclusion

That'll be the day.

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

you simply do not possess any official, verifiable and therefore valid proof that MM is not being manipulated

You refuse to believe us, because we don't own the game, and yet you refuse to believe Wargaming, the owners of the game. Hypocrite much?

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 07:32, said:

Once again you have failed to convince me I am wrong.

That's ok, we already know you're a lost cause, we're just trying to help the people that you might poison with your ignorance. There are people on these forums capable of learning, you're just not one of them.



Urabouttudie #112 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:00

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View Post24cups, on May 01 2018 - 06:47, said:

Call me crazy but after reading through all the double talk it comes down to this. 

YOU accuse WG of rigging the MM. I may be way off base BUT isn't it normally incumbent on the ACCUSER to provide the proof of the accusation  ?

That's why the prosecution always goes first in a trial. 

 

A respectable question....with a very simple answer.

 

"I" am not accusing WG of anything...

 

"I" am accusing Neatoman and others here of possessing no more proof of the MM "not" being rigged than any other poster.

 

It is an imposibility for them, or anyone else to know whether the MM is rigged...or not.

 

But these trolls will come into every thread and shout down  all dissenting conversation, claiming that they some how "know" that evryone is wrong.

 

I am simply asking for them to provide proof, jsut like any other poster here, of their position...

 

but they cannot.

 

because none of us can know...but they like to claim they do...

 

They still, right now, cannot provide any proof...instead they are claiming I am some kind of imbecile because I cannot simply accept that they are right.

 



Urabouttudie #113 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:03

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There is WG...and then there are us posters....

 

You are not relieved of the burden of proof of your position simply because that position is in defense of the MM instead of against it

 

We're all just posters on the forums...

 

so put up or shut up



Urabouttudie #114 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:06

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View PostPipinghot, on May 01 2018 - 08:58, said:

False again. Stop being dishonest.

First you prove that you've stopped molesting forest animals, then I'll use your same ironclad logic to prove that the MM is not rigged. Since you think you understand how to prove things this should be easy for you.

Another lie, you enjoy being the voice of ignorance and false reasoning.

That'll be the day.

You refuse to believe us, because we don't own the game, and yet you refuse to believe Wargaming, the owners of the game. Hypocrite much?

That's ok, we already know you're a lost cause, we're just trying to help the people that you might poison with your ignorance. There are people on these forums capable of learning, you're just not one of them.

 

I'm sorry...continually posting walls of line-item responses is a poor way of stomping your feet and insisting I acknowledge your attempts to stir the conversation.

 

ignored.

 



Urabouttudie #115 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:09

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View PostNeatoMan, on May 01 2018 - 05:04, said:

fixed

 

No point in arguing with someone who won't engage in an honest debate.   You win... you are the biggest troll.

 

so when asked to provide the same standard of proof you uphold any other poster to and you cannot you simply claim I am not "engaging in an honest debate"

 

Really?

 

Then you have the balls to proclaim ME the biggest troll?

 

You're a joke Neatoman...a boringly transparent joke..and so are your sock puppet accounts.

 



AnArmyofBun #116 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:23

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View PostUrabouttudie, on May 01 2018 - 14:09, said:

 

so when asked to provide the same standard of proof you uphold any other poster to and you cannot you simply claim I am not "engaging in an honest debate"

 

Really?

 

Then you have the balls to proclaim ME the biggest troll?

 

You're a joke Neatoman...a boringly transparent joke..and so are your sock puppet accounts.

 

 

You're an odd person.  I guess what it comes down to is I'll continue to win as much as I do.  You'll continue to win as much as you do.  I'll have fun, and you'll whine I guess.

 

Me and my blessed win rate and RNG will send a letter of thanks to Wargaming for picking me to be rigged on the high end side of the curve when I created my account in 2012.



riff_ #117 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:26

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View Postriff_, on Apr 28 2018 - 07:31, said:

 

Do not know if you are just trolling or not but if not let me ask you.

Do you believe that more people would play WOT's if WG stopped rigging game play/matches?

 

Still have not heard back from the OP on this.


 


 



ethics_gradient #118 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:32

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Game is completely rigged in favor of players who study maps, learn weakspots, and learn strategy.  UNFAIR!

 

I have the right to be a casual player "for fun" and rely on others to do those tedious tasks of learning the game.

 


Edited by ethics_gradient, May 01 2018 - 22:32.


riff_ #119 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:40

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View Postethics_gradient, on May 01 2018 - 16:32, said:

Game is completely rigged in favor of players who study maps, learn weakspots, and learn strategy.  UNFAIR!

 

I have the right to be a casual player "for fun" and rely on others to do those tedious tasks of learning the game.

 

 

Let me ask you something.  Is Claus really as crazy (crazy in a good way) as he seems in his video's?

And yes it is fixed for you and against me. :)



Cognitive_Dissonance #120 Posted May 01 2018 - 22:44

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Well, these threads sure are fun.

 

Japopo's clams!!!

 

 


Edited by Cognitive_Dissonance, May 01 2018 - 22:49.





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