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What a Rigged Joke this Game is at Times


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DrWho_ #41 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 17:04

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 16:58, said:

 

 

lol      The 40% that are biased in favor of the skilled players would obviously be biased against the unskilled.  

 


 

As for the remaining 60%

 

Either way I'm sick of losing to players who are better than me and if this doesn't stop soon I'm going to hold my breath

da_Rock002 #42 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 17:06

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The remaining 60% are basically SBMMed.    They are the resulting matchups that AREN'T biased or only slightly biased (which is about all anyone could do with such poor stats to define skill.)

 

 

We play around 60% of our battles in what amounts to a skill FILTERED matchmaking.    And they're pretty decent, aren't they.   They have matchups that don't favor either side.   And WoT/WG did it.   Well, actually, they didn't do anything on purpose.    Otherwise, it'd work like most everything they do on purpose.


 


 


Edited by da_Rock002, Apr 29 2018 - 17:08.


Unicorn_ #43 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 17:08

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The "random" movement by deniers is hilarious. Okay, if you're all claiming it's random and random is good, then you're also admitting that your performance isn't the deciding factor in matches, and it's not skill based. Also, if it's random, then why do these huge losses happen to many people on the same days. Why is MM terrible for whole days? MM isn't consistently "random" every day. We aren't complaining about an unusual instance of a losing streak. We're complaining about whole days/weekend of getting consistent back-to-back losing streaks that are outside of our norm and not determined by our performance. There are no win streaks on those days because it's not random. The more you play on that day, the greater your losses will be. It's not random. It's consistently negative. How are we supposed to want to play?


Edited by Unicorn_, Apr 29 2018 - 17:11.


DrWho_ #44 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 17:24

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View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 17:08, said:

The "random" movement by deniers is hilarious. Okay, if you're all claiming it's random and random is good, then you're also admitting that your performance isn't the deciding factor in matches, and it's not skill based. Also, if it's random, then why do these huge losses happen to many people on the same days. Why is MM terrible for whole days? MM isn't consistently "random" every day. We aren't complaining about an unusual instance of a losing streak. We're complaining about whole days/weekend of getting consistent back-to-back losing streaks that are outside of our norm and not determined by our performance. There are no win streaks on those days because it's not random. The more you play on that day, the greater your losses will be. It's not random. It's consistently negative. How are we supposed to want to play?

 

On Friday I "couldn't lose if I tried", if I had left my tank at spawn and gone for a beer I would have come back to a victory

On Saturday I could barely win at all and I even tried to bribe my teams with free beer to stop them from doing very silly things (too bad I didn't make myself that offer because I wasn't playng very well)

Today it's been a hit and miss affair

 

The problem is that even a player with my kind of awesomeness can only carry so many bad players so when the randomness of it all hits it's difficult to maintain a winning streak. The other way around the fact that I'm a very kind and giving person means that I generously allow my teammates to farm most of the experience when it looks like we're winning. (This explains why my rating isn't higher despite my awesomeness) 


Edited by DrWho_, Apr 29 2018 - 17:25.


NeatoMan #45 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 17:41

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 29 2018 - 07:33, said:

C'mon you little troll...anything at all??

You are losing it.

 

Block Quote

How about you useless trolls show US some definitive, OFFICIAL proof that WG is NOT rigged??

 Do you know what a negative proof fallacy is?  There is a good reason why it is not a valid argument.  It starts by assuming that a statement is true without ever having to ever verify that the statement is true.   I'll give you an example  "Prove that God does not exist.  If you can't then it means God does exist".

 

As far as the MM we have official releases from WG, videos from WG, and the patent describing what the MM is supposed to do.  So far what we have seen agrees with it.

 

Block Quote

None of your self-serving "logged games" Neato...I don't buyit...your excel sheets are as believable as your posts...

 which is always why I ask everyone to track their results for themselves.  So far everyone who done so has found gotten similar results as me.  I even outlined what steps to take to ensure the integrity of the data.  It's not that hard.  Just take screenshots of load-in screens and the end of battle reports, and use the vbaddict active uploader tool.

 

"WAAAH I can't be bothered to do that!  It's much easier to keep whining on the forums"

 

Block Quote

Anything? Anything at all that proves you are correct and the game is not manipulating players session experiences?

What do you really want?  To show that our tier placement is sometimes given preferential MM when we get new tanks or too many bottom tier games, or that the MM sets us up with bad teams to make us lose?   One does not prove the other, yet you keep trying to conflate the two.

 

You tracked games in an attempt to prove "manipulation", yet even you couldn't describe your mechanism with any clarity.  For something supposed to be so obvious it sure is difficult to find it.

 

We can both start tracking all over again, using the verification methods outlined above, to make sure it's all believable.  I guarantee I'll get the same results as I did before.  Heck, I may even let you decide which of my tanks I should play and in what order.



Unicorn_ #46 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 17:41

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View PostDrWho_, on Apr 29 2018 - 17:24, said:

 

On Friday I "couldn't lose if I tried", if I had left my tank at spawn and gone for a beer I would have come back to a victory

On Saturday I could barely win at all and I even tried to bribe my teams with free beer to stop them from doing very silly things (too bad I didn't make myself that offer because I wasn't playng very well)

Today it's been a hit and miss affair

 

The problem is that even a player with my kind of awesomeness can only carry so many bad players so when the randomness of it all hits it's difficult to maintain a winning streak. The other way around the fact that I'm a very kind and giving person means that I generously allow my teammates to farm most of the experience when it looks like we're winning. (This explains why my rating isn't higher despite my awesomeness) 

 

It isn't said enough that MM affects your performance and stats. On most days, MM isn't streaky for me. I get losses mixed with wins. The problem is if you get whole days with favorable or unfavorable matches, that's going to distort your performance. You aren't going to play to your ability and get your usual damage, kills, etc. And if that starts to affect your overall rating, players can end up being really underrated or overrated. That's why having balanced MM is so important. It keeps people on their toes to perform at their ability and the rating will be more accurate. I have a similar experience with what you said about having bad players. You can only try so hard and then it starts burning you out and feels discouraging. But if the wins are too easy, you won't try as hard.



DrWho_ #47 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 17:47

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View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 17:41, said:

 

It isn't said enough that MM affects your performance and stats. On most days, MM isn't streaky for me. I get losses mixed with wins. The problem is if you get whole days with favorable or unfavorable matches, that's going to distort your performance. You aren't going to play to your ability and get your usual damage, kills, etc. And if that starts to affect your overall rating, players can end up being really underrated or overrated. That's why having balanced MM is so important. It keeps people on their toes to perform at their ability and the rating will be more accurate. I have a similar experience with what you said about having bad players. You can only try so hard and then it starts burning you out and feels discouraging. But if the wins are too easy, you won't try as hard.

 

I need to add sarcasm tags to my posts :)

Unicorn_ #48 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 18:39

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View PostDrWho_, on Apr 29 2018 - 17:47, said:

 

I need to add sarcasm tags to my posts :)

 

It's true though. Skewed MM exaggerates your performance. It either makes you look better or worse than how you really perform.

da_Rock002 #49 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 18:41

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View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

The "random" movement by deniers is hilarious. Okay, if you're all claiming it's random and random is good, then you're also admitting that your performance isn't the deciding factor in matches, and it's not skill based. Also, if it's random, then why do these huge losses happen to many people on the same days. Why is MM terrible for whole days? MM isn't consistently "random" every day. We aren't complaining about an unusual instance of a losing streak. We're complaining about whole days/weekend of getting consistent back-to-back losing streaks that are outside of our norm and not determined by our performance. There are no win streaks on those days because it's not random. The more you play on that day, the greater your losses will be. It's not random. It's consistently negative. How are we supposed to want to play?

 

 

Bingo

When first starting I started recording my scores, something that somehow isn't important for the currently existing stat websites to do.   Glad I did, because within a month it was obvious the WG random very probably wasn't real random.   After a few months, I'd have put any amount of money it wasn't.   And after a year.....   :D   not a shadow of doubt.


 

In fact, one thing stands out bigtime.   If any developer wanted to control the WR of it's player base, the perfect tool would be the rolfstomp matchmaking.   Each battle can adjust up to 30 players.   Convenient?   For sure.    At one time, you nerf up to 15 and buff a handful.   The handful turns into true believers after enough MMs that are like Christmas in July, and they even troll the forums spreading the word for you.     What a perfect setup.     Well, maybe not for newbies, but who cares about them.   They stood a ration of seal-bashing and haven't gone away so why worry.   Yup....  perfect setup.  


 

BTW, who would you expect to preach that WoT/WG random is random?   And when that fails, create straw man interpretations of MM critics or just call them names.   Would it be the people getting the benne's from all those one-sided battles.   


Edited by da_Rock002, Apr 29 2018 - 18:44.


NeatoMan #50 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 18:51

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 12:41, said:

If any developer wanted to control the WR of it's player base, the perfect tool would be the rolfstomp matchmaking.   Each battle can adjust up to 30 players.   Convenient?   For sure.    At one time, you nerf up to 15 and buff a handful.  

If you want to make good players win more and bad players lose more then yes this would work.   If the goal is to drive players toward 50%, then this would do the opposite



da_Rock002 #51 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 19:05

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 29 2018 - 12:51, said:

If you want to make good players win more and bad players lose more then yes this would work.   If the goal is to drive players toward 50%, then this would do the opposite

 

 

Jeez,  that's exactly what it's doing.   You actually got it for once. 


 

Of course, it stands out like Mt.Rushmore for most people.


 

As for your 50% goal.........   :facepalm:    



da_Rock002 #52 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 19:12

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View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 12:39, said:

 

It's true though. Skewed MM exaggerates your performance. It either makes you look better or worse than how you really perform.

 

 

Definitely true.

 

Looking at the makeup of WoT/WG signature matchups and the outcomes,  that is certainly true.


 

How often do you almost zero-out when on the team that got stomped?

How often do the top players on the team that did the stomping pad their stats even higher?  



NeatoMan #53 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 19:14

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 13:05, said:

Jeez,  that's exactly what it's doing.   You actually got it for once. 

Of course, it stands out like Mt.Rushmore for most people.

As for your 50% goal.........   :facepalm:    

Most riggers believe the MM is rigged to drag players toward 50%, not make them win or lose more than they deserve.  So why does a player get chosen to win more than another?

 

View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 13:12, said:

How often do you almost zero-out when on the team that got stomped?

About as often as I do on teams that don't get stomped.

 

Block Quote

How often do the top players on the team that did the stomping pad their stats even higher?  

 As is expected if you are a good player, and help your team win and survive till the end of battle. The more you help your team win, the more mop up damage you get.  The good players do the same thing even when it isn't a blowout.  In fact, a blowout makes it harder for them to rack up lots of damage because more players are competing for the mop up damage.


Edited by NeatoMan, Apr 29 2018 - 19:27.


AnArmyofBun #54 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 19:50

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Behold.  I learned how to beat RNG.  I stopped needing to rely on it entirely.

 

http://wotreplays.eu...un-type_4_heavy

 

Ever since returning to WoT I've had a hard time shaking off the rust but it's finally coming off.  Granted.  I've removed "pen" rng from my gameplay.  Ahuehuehue.  It's not rigged guys.  It's just knowing what to do when and making the right choice vs the wrong choice. 



Treeburst #55 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 20:50

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This game is so far past rigged it can't even see rigged in its rear view mirror.

AnArmyofBun #56 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 20:55

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View PostTreeburst, on Apr 29 2018 - 12:50, said:

This game is so far past rigged it can't even see rigged in its rear view mirror.

 

Explain?

Treeburst #57 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 21:07

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View PostKliphie, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:01, said:

 

Can't do tangible proof, but can present a thought experiment.  

 

  • Wotzilla shows someone has hit battle on the Urabouttudie account 527 times in the last 90 days.  https://na.wotzilla....ls/Urabouttudie
  • Clearly, whoever posts as Urabouttudie on the forums believes they possess a modicum of intelligence. 
  • Only a moron would invest an average of nearly 6 games a day over a quarter of a year into an activity they believed was rigged. 
  • Therefore, we must conclude that either Urabouttudie is not as intelligent as they think or the game is not rigged.  

 

 

 

Because nobody gambles at casinos right? Oh wait. 



_Tsavo_ #58 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 21:09

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View PostPFCWilliams, on Apr 28 2018 - 23:16, said:

 

 

Without a doubt, the game is rigged like crazy.  

 

View PostTreeburst, on Apr 29 2018 - 14:50, said:

This game is so far past rigged it can't even see rigged in its rear view mirror.

 

I remain unconvinced, anything to back up them statements?

Pipinghot #59 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 21:54

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 29 2018 - 07:33, said:

How about you useless trolls show US some definitive, OFFICIAL proof that WG is NOT rigged??

Because that's not how proof works, which has been explained to you many, many times, but you willfully refuse to learn and continue to spout deliberately ignorant drivel.

 

We already know you're a lost cause, because you refuse to be found no matter how hard people try. Now we're just trying to protect people from your constant stream of idiocy.



Pipinghot #60 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 22:01

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:52, said:

View PostDrWho_, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:41, said:

It's def rigged because it heavily favors skilled players over unskilled ones, how's that fair eh ? eh ? eh ?

The game clearly produces around 40% of the matches biased in favor of the skilled players.   The game itself pads their scores or at least gives them an advantage.

That's backwards. In reality the game pads the win rates of bad players and holds back good players, which is why the bell curve of win rates goes from 40% to 65% (with only a very few people going above or below those boundaries. If everyone had a win rate based on their own personal skill, there would be lots of people with win rates in the 10's, 20's and 30's, but the basic fact that his is a team game prevents that from happening. Bad players get a lot of wins that they haven't earned, other people are winning for them.

 

Every below average player in this game would have a worse win rate if their win rate was based only on their own personal skills.

View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:52, said:

Amazing way to treat the less skilled and the newbies.

Yeah, it's really terrible how even truly awful players have win rates over 40%, getting wins that they haven't earned, and that on top of that the better players in the game are subsidizing them with credits and XP from the team pools in every battle. How terrible.

View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:52, said:

they're treated like seals by the developers themselves.   Amazing......

If they have worked their way past the low tiers and are still getting clubbed, that's their own fault for not learning how to get better by that time.


Edited by Pipinghot, Apr 29 2018 - 23:06.





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