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What a Rigged Joke this Game is at Times


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da_Rock002 #61 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 22:15

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View PostTreeburst, on Apr 29 2018 - 14:50, said:

This game is so far past rigged it can't even see rigged in its rear view mirror.

 

 

Now there is a good analogy.

 

Bottom line is not really how or why it's rigged, however.

The rigging is public knowledge.


 

The bottom line is the ridiculously unbalanced battles SUCK.   And they are almost half the battles most players who've been around less than a couple of years see most of the time.


 

Almost half the battles favor 5-6 green-blue boys and buff their WRs, while pssing on the players still learning the game. 


 

It's time for some of the blessed to show up and start spluttering their usual BS.   Roll up your pants legs.


Edited by da_Rock002, Apr 29 2018 - 22:15.


Pipinghot #62 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 22:18

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View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

The "random" movement by deniers is hilarious. Okay, if you're all claiming it's random and random is good, then you're also admitting that your performance isn't the deciding factor in matches, and it's not skill based.

That is completely wrong, it's not even close to what people are saying.

 

What they are actually saying is... The MM itself is random, it just throws people together without paying any attention at all to their skill level. Then, once the battle begins, the outcomes depend on the players themselves, which means that individual skill matters a great deal. The difference between you or me vs. a 60% player is that the 60% player is much better than we are. The reason they have a 60% WR is that they are more skilled, much more skilled. The 60% player gets the same mixture of good and bad luck that we get, the 60% player gets the same mixture of good and bad teams that we get, and yet they win more often because of their skill.

View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

Also, if it's random, then why do these huge losses happen to many people on the same days.

Those "huge losses" have always happened, right from the very first day that the game entered Alpha testing. They are not caused by the MM, not in the beginning and not now, the real cause is that his is a single-death-per-battle game. Single-death games always have large losses more often than respawn games. WoT has been this way from the very beginning, there's nothing "these days" about it.

View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

Why is MM terrible for whole days?

Because it's not, you have a major problem with confirmation bias and are not seeing things accurately.

View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

MM isn't consistently "random" every day.

Yes it is, you just don't understand randomness. You think that a random system should give you the same results every time you play, and that's incorrect.

View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

We aren't complaining about an unusual instance of a losing streak. We're complaining about whole days/weekend of getting consistent back-to-back losing streaks that are outside of our norm and not determined by our performance.

That's a complete myth, and only shows how significant your problem with confirmation bias really is. You need to learn how to track your information accurately, and if you do it right you'll find that things are much better than you think. the problem is you can't get past your feelings and allow the facts to tell you the truth.

View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

There are no win streaks on those days because it's not random. The more you play on that day, the greater your losses will be. It's not random. It's consistently negative.

Winning and losing streaks are significantly influenced by player skill, and by your attitude during the time you're playing. If you're angry and defeatist (also known as playing " on tilt " then you're definitely going to have an ongoing pattern of performing worse.

View PostUnicorn_, on Apr 29 2018 - 11:08, said:

How are we supposed to want to play?

Well that's up to you. WoT is more brutal than most games, it's pure PvP all the time and it can be very hard on a person's ego. You have to decide whether you find that level of challenge fun in a game, or whether you'd rather spend your leisure time playing something easier. No one is telling you that you have to like WoT, you have to decide what kind of game you like and then you have to take responsibility for yourself and accept the consequences of your decisions. How hard do you want to work at a game? Only you can make that decision.

Edited by Pipinghot, Apr 29 2018 - 23:09.


da_Rock002 #63 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 22:27

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People cry about the causes of the WoT/WG skill-skewed battles.   They gripe about the constant buffing/nerfing of favorite tanks.   They blame lots of things for the battles being unfair.

 

Bottom line is that any matchmaker trying to create good competition that ignores skill (certainly THE most important aspect of any team-vs-team competition) hasn't got a hope in hell of creating good competitive battles. 


 

Ignoring skill is ignorant....

Think I'll go watch some MLB.   Damn, I'm glad the lineups that take the field aren't chosen by WG.



Pipinghot #64 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 22:28

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 13:05, said:

View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 29 2018 - 12:51, said:

If you want to make good players win more and bad players lose more then yes this would work.   If the goal is to drive players toward 50%, then this would do the opposite

Jeez,  that's exactly what it's doing.   You actually got it for once.

You have obviously never looked at the bell curve of win rates in WoT, or if you have seen it then you completely fail to understand what you are looking at.

 

Win Rates in WoT are compressed from 40% to 65% (rather than having a normal distribution from 0-100%) because this is a team game. You can go afk in every single battle and you'll still win 40% of the time, because that is what happens when you have 15 people on a team, there will always be a lot of battles when other people carry you to victory. And even the very best players in the game can only win 70% of the time when they play solo. If Bjorn Borg played WoT instead of tennis, he could still only win 70% of the time while playing solo, because the team format prevent anyone from ever winning 100% of their battles.

 

On top of that, the team pools for XP and credits take rewards away from good players and give them to the bad players on their team - good players subsidize bad players. And frankly that's ok, there are good reasons for it, but you need to understand that it's happening. Every single player in the game with a below average win rate is being subsidized by every single above average player in the game. But for some reason you're never on the forums complaining about the injustice of the rewards system. How strange.



Pipinghot #65 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 22:31

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 16:27, said:

Bottom line is that any matchmaker trying to create good competition that ignores skill (certainly THE most important aspect of any team-vs-team competition) hasn't got a hope in hell of creating good competitive battles. 

All of my battles are competitive, which leads to the obvious question of what you're doing to ruin yours.

DrWho_ #66 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 23:39

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View PostPipinghot, on Apr 29 2018 - 22:31, said:

All of my battles are competitive, which leads to the obvious question of what you're doing to ruin yours.

 

I'm impressed by your patience.

 

Even when I'm hit by really bad losing streaks I don't see rigging anywhere, just as you say the simple fact that I as an average player isn't able to carry the players on my team that's even worse than me when the randomness of the MM throws me on a bad team. Or the other way around, when I'm having a crap couple of games my team isn't able to carry my dead weight. Crap happens



sergeantmine09 #67 Posted Apr 29 2018 - 23:43

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I wouldn't necessarily call it rigging. But I definitely get handed a lot of matches were the same module gets smashed repetitively. Had a game where my engine got knocked out and I repaired it. One shot knocked it out completely again. Got moving again, engine out and I am on fire. Got moving again, engine got knocked out again. It was the equivalent of perma tracking but on a much worse level

Urabouttudie #68 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 00:23

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:41, said:

You are losing it.

 

 Do you know what a negative proof fallacy is?  There is a good reason why it is not a valid argument.  It starts by assuming that a statement is true without ever having to ever verify that the statement is true.   I'll give you an example  "Prove that God does not exist.  If you can't then it means God does exist".

 

As far as the MM we have official releases from WG, videos from WG, and the patent describing what the MM is supposed to do.  So far what we have seen agrees with it.

 

 which is always why I ask everyone to track their results for themselves.  So far everyone who done so has found gotten similar results as me.  I even outlined what steps to take to ensure the integrity of the data.  It's not that hard.  Just take screenshots of load-in screens and the end of battle reports, and use the vbaddict active uploader tool.

 

"WAAAH I can't be bothered to do that!  It's much easier to keep whining on the forums"

 

What do you really want?  To show that our tier placement is sometimes given preferential MM when we get new tanks or too many bottom tier games, or that the MM sets us up with bad teams to make us lose?   One does not prove the other, yet you keep trying to conflate the two.

 

You tracked games in an attempt to prove "manipulation", yet even you couldn't describe your mechanism with any clarity.  For something supposed to be so obvious it sure is difficult to find it.

 

We can both start tracking all over again, using the verification methods outlined above, to make sure it's all believable.  I guarantee I'll get the same results as I did before.  Heck, I may even let you decide which of my tanks I should play and in what order.

 

Blah blah blah blah...so you got nothing, just like the rest of us.

 

Your mistake is in thinking it's a negative proof fallacy. Because to do so would be to assume that you are the one who is correct here, by default and therefore I must prove you wrong.

 

but you missed the point of my post, of course...

 

Which is to say that neither you nor I have any more official, verifiable  proof than the other does...

 

What do I mean? You know very well but whatever...you want to make up spreadsheets tallying battles...and then claim it is proof of your position, but that is only valid as long as we accept your spreadsheet as valid.

 

See how that works?

 

You could simply be making it up...

now now...calm down calm down....

 

You could be telling the truth as well, certainly.

 

But this is just a game and myself and many others here really don't have the time or inclination [that you obviously do] to go through all the effort it might take to prove you wrong.

 

You come in to every thread and insist you are right, waving your spreadsheets around like they are validated facts and when anyone challenges you, you simply demand they prove you wrong...

 

you see...you are the only one wanting to prove you wrong, we already know it is rigged.

 

and you have been blatantly clear on one particular point....only your version of facts will suffice to prove you wrong.

 

So why bother?

 

Why don't you just stop stomping your feet like children demanding another cookie and leave off the matchmaker threads instead?

 

Nobody asks you...so just...stop...

 

No?

 

I didn't think so...

 

 

 

 

 

 



PFCWilliams #69 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 00:41

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View PostStriker_70, on Apr 28 2018 - 06:24, said:

The problem with this game is that some people don't understand what random is.

 

Yes, like you. 

NeatoMan #70 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 00:43

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:23, said:

Your mistake is in thinking it's a negative proof fallacy. Because to do so would be to assume that you are the one who is correct here, by default and therefore I must prove you wrong.

 

but you missed the point of my post, of course...

 

Which is to say that neither you nor I have any more official, verifiable  proof than the other does...

There is the patent, the wiki, WG videos, all explaining how the MM works.  Are those not official enough for you?  You're the one trying to claim that it isn't doing what WG says it's supposed to be doing. 



Urabouttudie #71 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 00:46

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 29 2018 - 15:43, said:

There is the patent, the wiki, WG videos, all explaining how the MM works.  Are those not official enough for you?  You're the one trying to claim that it isn't doing what WG says it's supposed to be doing. 

 

You are wrong once again my silly little friend...

 

I am claiming and have always claimed that the MM is doing exactly what it was designed to do, nothing more and nothing less.

 

You keep wanting to change my words around to say I think it is rigged.

 

You do it in every thread I am a part of...

 



NeatoMan #72 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 00:52

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:46, said:

You are wrong once again my silly little friend...

 

I am claiming and have always claimed that the MM is doing exactly what it was designed to do, nothing more and nothing less.

 

You keep wanting to change my words around to say I think it is rigged.

 

You do it in every thread I am a part of...

 

oh really?

 

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 29 2018 - 07:33, said:

How about you useless trolls show US some definitive, OFFICIAL proof that WG is NOT rigged??

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 28 2018 - 09:03, said:

Of course it's rigged...it would be chaos any other way!

 



Urabouttudie #73 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 00:55

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 29 2018 - 15:52, said:

 

oh really?

 

 

 

 

Why don't you quote my entire statement you little troll...

 

you know...where I'm saying it's working as intended...just before the part you quoted....

 

Yea...you like to twist peoples words around and you do it in every post...

 

troll...

 



AnArmyofBun #74 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 01:00

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Why am I blessed to win?  Can someone explain that to me?

NeatoMan #75 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 01:20

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:55, said:

Why don't you quote my entire statement you little troll...

 

you know...where I'm saying it's working as intended...just before the part you quoted....

 

Yea...you like to twist peoples words around and you do it in every post...

 

troll...

OK so which part of their official statements constitutes rigging?   Not being bottom tier too often?  Preferential MM for a new tank for a few games?    Oh sure, everyone complains about that. :sceptic:

 

The only thing anyone complains about that has any official backing is that one win rate section in the patent.   So, there you have it.  Is that your WAI? 

 

Block Quote

But this is just a game and myself and many others here really don't have the time or inclination [that you obviously do] to go through all the effort it might take to prove you wrong.

It really isn't that hard to track the necessary info to find the answer (and verify the data), but it's obvious you have no interest.  You just want to whine  ...and you're calling me the troll. :sceptic:


Edited by NeatoMan, Apr 30 2018 - 11:44.


da_Rock002 #76 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 01:36

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View PostPipinghot, on Apr 29 2018 - 16:28, said:

You have obviously never looked at the bell curve of win rates in WoT,

 

Why you know as well as I do that I've looked at bell curves..................

 

This one for example..................

It shows how WoT treated a "blessed player" (more skilled) over about 4K battles.  The less skilled teams would be on the left in that bell curve.   And on the right it shows the teams that provide a little help with some WR buffing.       

Notice where the dividing line is for battles above and below 50% win chance.   Notice how many battles that ONE player was blessed to have greater than 50% win chance, and how many he had to rely on a team that wasn't as good.    Notice how his win chance isn't centered on the bell curve's center.  

  



sergeantmine09 #77 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 01:50

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:00, said:

Why am I blessed to win?  Can someone explain that to me?

 

You must get some pretty solid teammates. I get the 3 year olds that practically roll around on their keyboard

_Tsavo_ #78 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 01:53

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I am a potato and do pretty well in the win rate department

AnArmyofBun #79 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 02:02

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View Postsergeantmine09, on Apr 29 2018 - 17:50, said:

 

You must get some pretty solid teammates. I get the 3 year olds that practically roll around on their keyboard

 

View Post_Tsavo, on Apr 29 2018 - 17:53, said:

I am a potato and do pretty well in the win rate department

 

For 62% of 10000 games I've been given solid teammates?  I dunno about that.

 

I play with Tsavo sometimes and yeah he's super potato.  He drives around like a dipstick in a t49 with a derp screaming about touching butts. 



_Tsavo_ #80 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 02:05

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on Apr 29 2018 - 20:02, said:

I play with Tsavo sometimes and yeah he's super potato.  He drives around like a dipstick in a t49 with a derp screaming about touching butts. 

 

The T49 is designed for touching butts.  I'm just doing my part to make sure it functions as designed.

 

There's been a few who have said my platstyle is a bit chaotic and how I pull it off is beyond them.  Maximum overspud, here.  Somehow it kinda works.  I dunno.  






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