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What a Rigged Joke this Game is at Times


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AnArmyofBun #81 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 02:08

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View Post_Tsavo, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:05, said:

 

The T49 is designed for touching butts.  I'm just doing my part to make sure it functions as designed.

 

There's been a few who have said my platstyle is a bit chaotic and how I pull it off is beyond them.  Maximum overspud, here.  Somehow it kinda works.  I dunno.  

 

Because Tsavo. From potato's Vodka is made.  So the true best Potatoes become the best Vodka and Vodka is what fuels this game.  Therefore - you are the game.

 

The best of Potates.



Treeburst #82 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 02:28

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There's nothing to explain. If someone tells you they've got an unweighted coin and then flips heads "randomly" 10 times in a row most people are going to reject the hypothesis that the coin is unweighted.

I can't explicitly say the game is rigged and actually be correct, all I can say is I've rejected the hypothesis that the teams are random.

Of course there is room for debate as to what assumptions are made regarding the testing of the hypothesis and the validity of the assumptions, but I'm pretty confident in my conclusion.

AnArmyofBun #83 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 02:41

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View PostTreeburst, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:28, said:

There's nothing to explain. If someone tells you they've got an unweighted coin and then flips heads "randomly" 10 times in a row most people are going to reject the hypothesis that the coin is unweighted.

I can't explicitly say the game is rigged and actually be correct, all I can say is I've rejected the hypothesis that the teams are random.

Of course there is room for debate as to what assumptions are made regarding the testing of the hypothesis and the validity of the assumptions, but I'm pretty confident in my conclusion.

 

So how do you explain winning a full 12% more than 50%?

NeatoMan #84 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 03:13

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 19:36, said:

Why you know as well as I do that I've looked at bell curves..................

 

This one for example..................

It shows how WoT treated a "blessed player" (more skilled) over about 4K battles.  The less skilled teams would be on the left in that bell curve.   And on the right it shows the teams that provide a little help with some WR buffing.       

~~~~snip~~~~~

Notice where the dividing line is for battles above and below 50% win chance.   Notice how many battles that ONE player was blessed to have greater than 50% win chance, and how many he had to rely on a team that wasn't as good.    Notice how his win chance isn't centered on the bell curve's center. 

 

Wow...   After all this time you still have absolutely no idea what that curve means.  Do you know why I get that many battles above 50%?  It's all due to how my stats affect the win chances.

 

View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 08:52, said:

The game clearly produces around 40% of the matches biased in favor of the skilled players.   The game itself pads their scores or at least gives them an advantage.    Amazing way to treat the less skilled and the newbies.  Even when they've worked their way up from the lower, seal-bashing tiers, they're treated like seals by the developers themselves.   Amazing......


The only thing giving me an advantage on that curve is me.  It's not WG's fault that if given the exact same teams I got you would make more of them fall below 50% win chance.   Now if you think it's bad having an MM that allows an individual to influence battles to the extent their skill dictates, fine...  but it certainly is not handing you, me, or anybody else any better or worse teams than anybody else.

 



Treeburst #85 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 03:17

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on Apr 29 2018 - 20:41, said:

 

So how do you explain winning a full 12% more than 50%?

 

Platooning would be my guess. 



Pipinghot #86 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 03:31

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View PostDrWho_, on Apr 29 2018 - 17:39, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Apr 29 2018 - 22:31, said:

All of my battles are competitive, which leads to the obvious question of what you're doing to ruin yours.

I'm impressed by your patience.

 

Even when I'm hit by really bad losing streaks I don't see rigging anywhere, just as you say the simple fact that I as an average player isn't able to carry the players on my team that's even worse than me when the randomness of the MM throws me on a bad team. Or the other way around, when I'm having a crap couple of games my team isn't able to carry my dead weight. Crap happens

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as human as the next person and I'm not above getting Mad@Tanks when I'm having a bad day. I just don't indulge in superstitious nonsense like accusing the game of being rigged, and when I'm not in the right mood to bring out my A-Game, I go play something less competitive.



sergeantmine09 #87 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 03:44

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on Apr 29 2018 - 19:02, said:

 

 

For 62% of 10000 games I've been given solid teammates?  I dunno about that.

 

I play with Tsavo sometimes and yeah he's super potato.  He drives around like a dipstick in a t49 with a derp screaming about touching butts. 

 

Sounds like you kinda have fun doing it. That is something I lack. Entertainment, in the gaming division

Pipinghot #88 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 03:47

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View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 19:36, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Apr 29 2018 - 16:28, said:

You have obviously never looked at the bell curve of win rates in WoT,

Why you know as well as I do that I've looked at bell curves..................

Wow are you dishonest. I talk about the bell curve of win rates and then you reply with a bell curve of something entirely different, the chance to win curve for a single player.

 

I talk about all players, you respond with a single player.

I talk about actual win rates, you talk about estimated chance to win.

Seriously, you should be ashamed.

View Postda_Rock002, on Apr 29 2018 - 19:36, said:

This one for example..................

It shows how WoT treated a "blessed player" (more skilled) over about 4K battles.  The less skilled teams would be on the left in that bell curve.   And on the right it shows the teams that provide a little help with some WR buffing.       

Notice where the dividing line is for battles above and below 50% win chance.   Notice how many battles that ONE player was blessed to have greater than 50% win chance, and how many he had to rely on a team that wasn't as good.    Notice how his win chance isn't centered on the bell curve's center.

On top of being dishonest, you've just proved my point that you don't understand the bell curves even when you look at them.

 

This is a better than average player, so of course his average chance-to-win is above average, because he raises the chance-to-win for every team he's on. The average chance-to-win for each and every player in the game will be slightly different, because their individual skill directly affects their chance to win in every single battle they play. You have it completely backwards, his teams are not buffing his chance-to-win, he is buffing the chance-to-win for his teams.


Edited by Pipinghot, Apr 30 2018 - 03:49.


BigWoolyMammoth #89 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 05:27

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on Apr 29 2018 - 19:41, said:

 

So how do you explain winning a full 12% more than 50%?

 

You get better RNG  than most players? But I'm sure you will say that is a lie, even with no way to prove it. I do not think each player gets the same rng... I know i'm a lunatic for thinking this... i mean wargaming said so...

tonkmato #90 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 06:08

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So if the game is rigged, the only logical question is who did you piss off to get on the bad side of the rigging and how did I get on the good side? I did nothing to deserve such special treatment

AnArmyofBun #91 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 09:04

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View PostBigWoolyMammoth, on Apr 29 2018 - 21:27, said:

 

You get better RNG  than most players? But I'm sure you will say that is a lie, even with no way to prove it. I do not think each player gets the same rng... I know i'm a lunatic for thinking this... i mean wargaming said so...

 

I missed two aimed shots at a Mauschens turret less than fifty feet in front of my type four today that had me hanging my head over the back of my chair. 

 

My rng seems like everyone’s. 



Urabouttudie #92 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 13:29

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View PostPipinghot, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:47, said:

Wow are you dishonest. I talk about the bell curve of win rates and then you reply with a bell curve of something entirely different, the chance to win curve for a single player.

 

I talk about all players, you respond with a single player.

I talk about actual win rates, you talk about estimated chance to win.

Seriously, you should be ashamed.

On top of being dishonest, you've just proved my point that you don't understand the bell curves even when you look at them.

 

This is a better than average player, so of course his average chance-to-win is above average, because he raises the chance-to-win for every team he's on. The average chance-to-win for each and every player in the game will be slightly different, because their individual skill directly affects their chance to win in every single battle they play. You have it completely backwards, his teams are not buffing his chance-to-win, he is buffing the chance-to-win for his teams.

 

this here is a fine example of WG's trolls...small sample size...how original...

 

See? They got nothing but "You're all just wrong"...they have no proof that you are wrong, no more than the rest of us, but they insist you are wrong.

 

How could they have proof that the mechanics are "random"...unless they work for WG they can't have any more proof than anyone else...

 

It is as simple as that...but they are absolutely positive you are wrong

 

These trolls will spend days and days, page after page arguing that you are simply wrong...in every way you present, you are wrong and they are right.

 

Your lying eyes are wrong and they are right and you had just better believe them because they have days and days and day to keep shouting you down...

 

I'm just going to leave this last little tidbit here

 

Block Quote

I talk about all players, you respond with a single player.

 

Ol' Neatoman has been presenting his single-player data as the MM bible of stats for literally years now...

 

...and none of you useless slugs have ever objected to the fact it represents only ONE player...

 

You little tools keep giving yourselves away...can't keep the story straight after all these years...

 

but then you don't really have to since most players don;t stick around long because of the MM among other reasons...

 

right?

 

 



Urabouttudie #93 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 13:39

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View PostNeatoMan, on Apr 29 2018 - 16:20, said:

OK so which part of their official statements constitutes rigging?   Not being bottom tier too often?  Preferential MM for a new tank for a few games?    Oh sure, everyone complains about that. :sceptic:

 

The only thing anyone complains about that has any official backing is that one win rate section in the patent.   So, there you have it.  Is that your WAI? 

 

It really isn't that hard to track the necessary info to find the answer (and verify the data), but it's obvious you have no interest.  You just want to whine  ...and you're calling me the troll. :sceptic:

 

Still nothing Neato?

 

NO proof at all to back up your claims?

 

Nothing?

 

Just more speaking from authority about "the only thing anyone complains about..." whatever...

 

Just put up some proof that validates your position or shut up.

 

And you can no longer use your own data as your little Tool Boi just proclaimed that we are now looking for data across all players...not just one...

 

Your personal data is garbage and about as reliable as anonymous sources can be...

 

Yea...I think that's what I've been saying up to this point....show me data across all players...however you want so long as it shows the MM is in fact "random" and not manipulating the player experience...just make sure you pull the data from official WG sources that we can all be objective about...mmmkay??

 

but you can't...can you?

 



Urabouttudie #94 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 13:48

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Just to be clear...I win more than I lose, consistently enough for my personal satisfaction.

 

I have no problem with Winning and Losing...or my WR stat...

 

My position has nothing to do with winning or losing...

 

Now we are clear on that point.

 

That is all.



F0R_M07H3R_RU5514 #95 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 13:53

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on Apr 29 2018 - 20:02, said:

I play with Tsavo sometimes and yeah he's super potato.  He drives around like a dipstick in a t49 with a derp screaming about touching butts. 

 

View Post_Tsavo, on Apr 29 2018 - 20:05, said:

The T49 is designed for touching butts.  I'm just doing my part to make sure it functions as designed.

 

I wish you'd stream more, so I could watch you touch butts on my computer.



dunniteowl #96 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 14:18

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View Postdominator_98, on Apr 27 2018 - 23:30, said:

We need neg rep back, and if your rep drops below -100 in a month, you get a 1 month ban. Overall rep could reset every 100 posts or something. 3 1-month bans = permaban. All the trolls and useless idiots would get booted without the mods having to do anything.

 

Maybe a timer and scale system?  This way, if you get, say 10 Neg reps in an hour, the system takes a closer look at you, notifying a moderator to go check.  If you get 10 Neg reps in a day, it 'flags' you as a potential troublemaker.  If you hit 10 Neg reps in a week, it 'tracks' you a little closer, or something like that.

 

And of course, that is not my 'hard and written' concept, just winging out an example off the top of my head to carry forward the idea.

 

I Like the idea in general and think it needs a bit of work for details and workability.

 

 

At OP:  No.  I never noticed this.  Best winning streak 16.  Worst losing streak 13.  I'm ahead of this 'rigged' game, babee!

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF!



NeatoMan #97 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 15:19

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 07:39, said:

Your personal data is garbage and about as reliable as anonymous sources can be..

I have posted my data set multiple times and have load in screenshots for every battle.  I have asked anyone questioning my data to pick any battle at random and I will provide the matching screenshot for any one of them.  still no takers.

 

Block Quote

Yea...I think that's what I've been saying up to this point....show me data across all players...however you want so long as it shows the MM is in fact "random" and not manipulating the player experience...just make sure you pull the data from official WG sources that we can all be objective about...mmmkay??

 If you are getting rigged with a win rate that is closer to average than mine, then why would I not see the same rigging?  If I get a winning streak then why would I not see the same corrective rigging everyone else supposedly sees?  If there is an algorithm in place why would it not apply to me?  Why would an algorithm apply across the server, yet not to any one individual?

 

Here we go with your flip flopping between "manipulated" and "rigged" again.

 

Why don't you be more specific about what is manipulated and what is rigged?  Have i seen preferential MM for my new tanks?  yes.  Have I seen a change in tier placement based on previous bottom tier MM?  yes.    Both also have official WG statements backing it up.   That's the extent of the manipulation I have seen.  Other than that I have never seen any manipulation of battle tier based on past win rates, streaks or anything else..

 

As far as random, that applies to player skill.  A blind selection of players will result in a random distribution of player skill.  It's not only my data that shows this, but every single person who has ever kept track of XVM stats comes to the same conclusion.

 

I have offered anybody the same challenge to gather data and see for themselves.  If you put in half the time you put into the forums you'd already have your answer, but it's clear you have no interest in putting your money where your mouth is.   You are either too lazy, or too afraid, or too much of a troll to find out the truth for yourself, so keep whining, and falling back on logical fallacies to "prove" your point.



Pipinghot #98 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 18:00

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 07:29, said:

View PostPipinghot, on Apr 29 2018 - 18:47, said:

Wow are you dishonest. I talk about the bell curve of win rates and then you reply with a bell curve of something entirely different, the chance to win curve for a single player.

 

I talk about all players, you respond with a single player.

I talk about actual win rates, you talk about estimated chance to win.

Seriously, you should be ashamed.

On top of being dishonest, you've just proved my point that you don't understand the bell curves even when you look at them.

 

This is a better than average player, so of course his average chance-to-win is above average, because he raises the chance-to-win for every team he's on. The average chance-to-win for each and every player in the game will be slightly different, because their individual skill directly affects their chance to win in every single battle they play. You have it completely backwards, his teams are not buffing his chance-to-win, he is buffing the chance-to-win for his teams.

this here is a fine example of WG's trolls...small sample size...how original...

I said nothing about sample size in that post, stop being dishonest. Everyone here can scroll up and see that I didn't discuss sample size at all, because sample size was not the problem with your post. One wonders why would say that when everyone here can simply scroll up and see that you're not telling the truth.

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 07:29, said:

See? They got nothing but "You're all just wrong"...they have no proof that you are wrong, no more than the rest of us, but they insist you are wrong.

If you can't understand basic logic and math, that's your own problem. The fact that you can't properly interpret the graphic that you yourself posted is just further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about and you willfully refuse to learn even when things are explained to you, again, and again, and again.

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 07:29, said:

How could they have proof that the mechanics are "random"...unless they work for WG they can't have any more proof than anyone else.

I'll bet you have a lot of fun with your friends in the Flat Earth Society and the Moon Landing Deniers Club.

 

All of the valid evidence we have indicates that the MM is random. There is zero valid evidence that the MM is rigged. Therefore a reasonable person must assume that the MM is not rigged. That's pretty simple logic that even most children can follow.

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 07:29, said:

These trolls will spend days and days, page after page arguing that you are simply wrong...in every way you present, you are wrong and they are right.

 

Your lying eyes are wrong and they are right and you had just better believe them because they have days and days and day to keep shouting you down...

Well yes, that's what happens when you're wrong over and over and over again. Everyone who believes in the flat earth theory and everyone who denies the moon landings are also wrong over and over and over again, just like you. You have been given many opportunities to learn from valid information, and yet you refuse to learn because your ego just can't accept the reality that you're wrong. Bummer for you.

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 07:29, said:

I'm just going to leave this last little tidbit here

Block Quote

I talk about all players, you respond with a single player.

Ol' Neatoman has been presenting his single-player data as the MM bible of stats for literally years now...

 

...and none of you useless slugs have ever objected to the fact it represents only ONE player...

You're being dishonest, again. You're trying to twist the context of this conversation into something completely different.

 

There is nothing wrong with using the data of one person if the sample size is large enough and if the data is gathered using proper methods, and that is why Neatoman's data is useful and informative. He has used proper methods of data gathering, he has made his data available for peer review, and he has used proper statistical and logical methods of analyzing his data.

 

As we can all see, I didn't complain about the sample size in your graph, because the sample size was not the problem. The problem with your graph has already been explained, you tried to respond to the actual win rates of the all players as a group with a graph of the estimated chance to win of a single player, which has absolutely no bearing on the point you were responding to. They're both bell curves, but they are bell curves of entirely different subjects. Your graphic would have been just as invalid if you had posted the bell curve of win rates in War Thunder. Technically that is also a bell curve, but just like your image it is entirely unrelated to the point you were responding to.

View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 07:29, said:

You little tools keep giving yourselves away...can't keep the story straight after all these years...

Our story has always been straight, it's your deliberate twisting of information and dishonest reframing of arguments that's crooked, and always has been.

 

 


Edited by Pipinghot, Apr 30 2018 - 18:01.


AnArmyofBun #99 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 18:14

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View PostF0R_M07H3R_RU5514, on Apr 30 2018 - 05:53, said:

 

 

I wish you'd stream more, so I could watch you touch butts on my computer.

 

I can do that.  I just don't use a face cam anymore.  My house doesn't support it atm.

AnArmyofBun #100 Posted Apr 30 2018 - 18:19

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View PostUrabouttudie, on Apr 30 2018 - 05:48, said:

Just to be clear...I win more than I lose, consistently enough for my personal satisfaction.

 

I have no problem with Winning and Losing...or my WR stat...

 

My position has nothing to do with winning or losing...

 

Now we are clear on that point.

 

That is all.

 

Why do you have to be such a snot in your posts man.  No one buys what you're selling.  When I came back to play after years away my WR started dropping *hard* because I was making all kinds of mistakes.  My WN8 was tanking, and is still way lower than I used to post.  Personal ability, not WR rigging.  Now I'm headed back up.  You live in tier 5, a very easy tier to play.  Come join me in tier 9-10.  Let's see how you do.




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