Jump to content


So, a small sample size about game balance:

KV-2 Marks of Excelllence Artillery Top tier Bottom tier Statistics Luck Sample Size

  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

Urabouttudie #21 Posted May 05 2018 - 00:25

    Captain

  • Players
  • 20862 battles
  • 1,792
  • Member since:
    11-11-2013

View PostFlarvin, on May 04 2018 - 15:17, said:

 

If I don’t understand it, it’s not real. lol

 

It's a simple equation Flarvin...

 

There are my instincts...which have helped me survive a great many life threatening situations in my half a century....as well as raise several children to adulthood without danger...and many, many other things in the history of my life...

 

Instincts are an innate part of human nature...one of the most base characteristiscs of most all living animals are instincts.

 

Then there are anonymous people on the internet...such as you, and I have no idea what your intentions are in being here today telling me I should trust you.

 

Pardon me if I practice a certain level of discernment in who and what I accept as truth.

 

Thank you.



Beorn_of_the_NorthernSea #22 Posted May 05 2018 - 00:27

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 25376 battles
  • 2,652
  • [-SCA-] -SCA-
  • Member since:
    08-07-2014

Yeah, averages wouldn't apply to artillery I reckon...

 

Yes, those other ones that were tier 7 were 14.

 

I really should check the 3/5/7 versus 5/10.  Although, I HAVE been seeing some weird [edited] like 2/4/9 and 3/3/9 too.  And those make no sense to me.  How is that part of the 3/5/7 or 5/10 dynamic?

 

And, yeah, I AM an average player [barely].  But Drone157, you should have seen my stats 2 years ago!  yuck!  I have made some serious strides from tomato towards slightly under-ripe banana...

 

I will keep on keepin' on, and thanks for the 107mm tip!

 

~B



Pipinghot #23 Posted May 05 2018 - 00:28

    Major

  • Players
  • 25960 battles
  • 8,751
  • [IOC] IOC
  • Member since:
    11-20-2011

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 04 2018 - 17:06, said:

It's Pipinghot...Neatoman's sock puppet shill account...

 

the veneer is thinning...

 

and the conversation just ended...

Wow, you really are becoming progressively unhinged as time goes on. I hope for your own sake that you're not this deranged in RL.



Flarvin #24 Posted May 05 2018 - 00:32

    Major

  • Players
  • 51847 battles
  • 13,491
  • Member since:
    03-29-2013

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 04 2018 - 18:25, said:

 

It's a simple equation Flarvin...

 

There are my instincts...which have helped me survive a great many life threatening situations in my half a century....as well as raise several children to adulthood without danger...and many, many other things in the history of my life...

 

Instincts are an innate part of human nature...one of the most base characteristiscs of most all living animals are instincts.

 

Then there are anonymous people on the internet...such as you, and I have no idea what your intentions are in being here today telling me I should trust you.

 

Pardon me if I practice a certain level of discernment in who and what I accept as truth.

 

Thank you.

 

I have an anti-tiger pole in my lawn. No one in my family has been attacked by a tiger since the pole was installed.

 

The pole works, no tigers. 

 

It has nothing to do with the fact that tigers are not native where I live. And that no one has been attacked by a tiger in my area. It’s the pole. 

 

lol



Urabouttudie #25 Posted May 05 2018 - 00:32

    Captain

  • Players
  • 20862 battles
  • 1,792
  • Member since:
    11-11-2013

View PostPipinghot, on May 04 2018 - 15:28, said:

Wow, you really are becoming progressively unhinged as time goes on. I hope for your own sake that you're not this deranged in RL.

 

You are right. My baseless attack upon your character was completely un-called-for. 

 

I am shamed.

 



Urabouttudie #26 Posted May 05 2018 - 00:37

    Captain

  • Players
  • 20862 battles
  • 1,792
  • Member since:
    11-11-2013

View PostFlarvin, on May 04 2018 - 15:32, said:

 

I have an anti-tiger pole in my lawn. No one in my family has been attacked by a tiger since the pole was installed.

 

The pole works, no tigers. 

 

It has nothing to do with the fact that tigers are not native where I live. And that no one has been attacked by a tiger in my area. It’s the pole. 

 

lol

 

The facts remain...there is plenty of historical basis for people in positions of authority, assumed or otherwise to lie, specifically using numbers and statistical data to shore up their false positions.

 

In my experience, people certainly do not need to be in any position of authority to do the same...and this should be assumed when dealing with people on the internet...

 

This is called discernment...

 

I taught it to my daughters when teaching them not to trust unknown men on the internet...or are you implying that this would be an act of insanity to practice this form of discernment?

 

I really am confused about your position here...

 



Pipinghot #27 Posted May 05 2018 - 00:40

    Major

  • Players
  • 25960 battles
  • 8,751
  • [IOC] IOC
  • Member since:
    11-20-2011

View PostBeornotns, on May 04 2018 - 18:27, said:

I really should check the 3/5/7 versus 5/10.  Although, I HAVE been seeing some weird [edited] like 2/4/9 and 3/3/9 too.  And those make no sense to me.  How is that part of the 3/5/7 or 5/10 dynamic?

I'm not 100% sure, but as far as I know (and please feel free to look for something official on this) any battle that has 3 tiers gets folded in to the 3/5/7 system. So if you're top tier in a 2/4/9 battle that's still top tier, or if you're bottom tier in a 3/3/9 that's still bottom tier.

 

Regarding 5/10 battles, intuitively we think that if you're part of the "10" that should count as be "bottom tier", but as far as I know it counts as middle tier because the MM doesn't treat battles as top, middle and bottom, it treats battles as "top tier", "top tier -1" and "top tier -2". So if you're bottom tier in a 5/10 battle the MM treats that as "top tier minus 1", we think of that as bottom tier, but the MM "thinks" of it as being the same thing as being middle tier in 3-tier battle. This is the same reason why a 15/15 battle counts as top tier, because your tier is not lower than anyone else in the battle.

 

I'm not sure if we can chalk up this bizarre logic to "Eastern game design thinking vs. Western game design thinking" or to "WG was trying to pull a fast one" (I would really love to know what the RU forums are saying about the logic they've built into the 3/5/7 system, I wonder if they're as unhappy with it as we are), but either way let's keep our fingers crossed that WG changes this logic in the future. The 3/5/7 system was supposed to be an improvement over the old system, based on year of players complaining about too many top tier tanks, but the way they implemented the logic of their "improvement" has not made the NA player base any more happy with them.


Edited by Pipinghot, May 05 2018 - 00:46.


kekaha #28 Posted May 05 2018 - 01:04

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 15456 battles
  • 140
  • Member since:
    10-06-2015

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 05 2018 - 00:12, said:

 

A whole lot of supposedly highly educated and intellectually superior people in lofty positions of authority at NIST tried to convince me that 3 buildings in one day defied the laws of physics and my own intuition and collapsed at free-fall speed into their own footprints...

 

A 9/11 truther over here. Because instincts and an unparallelled understanding of the laws of physics.



spud_tuber #29 Posted May 05 2018 - 02:23

    Major

  • Players
  • 51978 battles
  • 6,481
  • Member since:
    08-26-2013

View Postkekaha, on May 04 2018 - 18:04, said:

 

A 9/11 truther over here. Because instincts and an unparallelled understanding of the laws of physics.

On the plus side, he has given me an excuse to post this:

 



Beorn_of_the_NorthernSea #30 Posted May 05 2018 - 03:27

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 25376 battles
  • 2,652
  • [-SCA-] -SCA-
  • Member since:
    08-07-2014

So, on the 2 matches since today:

1341 damage done, 169 spotting, Loss, tier 8 match [3/5/7], 2 artillery

1773 damage done, 135 spotting, Win, tier 7 match [5/10], 2 artillery

 

Slowly getting better.

 

~B

 

(looks like I'M not the one wearing tin foil...)



JohnnyReroll #31 Posted May 05 2018 - 05:38

    First lieutenant

  • Players
  • 9185 battles
  • 658
  • Member since:
    03-07-2013

Beo,

 

You are tracking the wrong items.  None of the items you track play a 'huge' roll in whether you win or not.  Install xvm, start tracking which team has the 'tomato advantage', i.e. which team has less tomatoes, and how many less.   I think you will find direct correlation with win/losses and less tomatoes/more tomatoes.  I.e, if your team has 1 more tomato, you are a little bit more likely to lose.  If your team has 5 more tomatoes, you are almost guaranteed to lose.  (The reverse is true if the enemy team has more tomatoes).  Then look at just how often there is a 'large' gap between the number of tomatoes between teams.  I find that once you hit the '3 difference', it starts to become very hard to overcome.  Let us know what you find out.



Pipinghot #32 Posted May 05 2018 - 09:06

    Major

  • Players
  • 25960 battles
  • 8,751
  • [IOC] IOC
  • Member since:
    11-20-2011

View Postkekaha, on May 04 2018 - 19:04, said:

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 05 2018 - 00:12, said:

A whole lot of supposedly highly educated and intellectually superior people in lofty positions of authority at NIST tried to convince me that 3 buildings in one day defied the laws of physics and my own intuition and collapsed at free-fall speed into their own footprints...

A 9/11 truther over here. Because instincts and an unparallelled understanding of the laws of physics.

Holy crap, is that what all of that nonsense was about? Well this explains a lot about his posting history.



Beorn_of_the_NorthernSea #33 Posted May 05 2018 - 09:46

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 25376 battles
  • 2,652
  • [-SCA-] -SCA-
  • Member since:
    08-07-2014

View PostJohnnyReroll, on May 04 2018 - 20:38, said:

Beo,

 

You are tracking the wrong items.  None of the items you track play a 'huge' roll in whether you win or not.  Install xvm, start tracking which team has the 'tomato advantage', i.e. which team has less tomatoes, and how many less.   I think you will find direct correlation with win/losses and less tomatoes/more tomatoes.  I.e, if your team has 1 more tomato, you are a little bit more likely to lose.  If your team has 5 more tomatoes, you are almost guaranteed to lose.  (The reverse is true if the enemy team has more tomatoes).  Then look at just how often there is a 'large' gap between the number of tomatoes between teams.  I find that once you hit the '3 difference', it starts to become very hard to overcome.  Let us know what you find out.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but...

 

Winning, for marks, is unimportant.  Damage matters.  I keep track of the wins and losses as a matter of course, but it is more important for me to do well in the KV-2, whether we win or not [I would prefer, of course, that we win].

 

~Beorn



8_Hussars #34 Posted May 21 2018 - 18:21

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 52138 battles
  • 344
  • [SHIRE] SHIRE
  • Member since:
    09-17-2013

Why does the forum software always $%^& up my posts... and dump my long crafted responses. 

 



8_Hussars #35 Posted May 21 2018 - 18:36

    Staff sergeant

  • Players
  • 52138 battles
  • 344
  • [SHIRE] SHIRE
  • Member since:
    09-17-2013

 

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 04 2018 - 16:12, said:

 

A whole lot of supposedly highly educated and intellectually superior people in lofty positions of authority at NIST tried to convince me that 3 buildings in one day defied the laws of physics and my own intuition and collapsed at free-fall speed into their own footprints...

 

...as a result of office fires...the numbers said so...analysis and statistics compiled and proclaimed infallible by those powers that be...contrary to all the laws of nature known to man.

 

Intuition is not infallible (We have daily examples of WoT players who's intuition tell them to go beach and valley).  Rather than relying on instincts; check out some science that obey the "laws of nature".  Just because your intuition leads you to "Alternate facts" doesn't make it so.

 

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 04 2018 - 16:12, said:

People were lining up at the news desks to take turns proclaiming HRC the next POTUS....every poll, statistic and talking head literally proclaimed a preordained victory...

 

The numbers said so...based upon well-established data...analysis and statistics compiled and proclaimed infallible by those powers that be...

 

It was guaranteed...right?

 

This is a classic example of the "law of small numbers" and human psychology.  Patterns were foreseen in small poll numbers and surveys that were not there. 

 

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 04 2018 - 16:12, said:

Way back...JFK and a magic bullet...again, intelligent men with lots of letters after their names proclaimed a single bullet traveled the proposed trajectory...

 

contrary to my own simple understand of these laws of physics...but the numbers said so...right there in black and white.

 

There were no "numbers" cited in the Warren report to support the "magic bullet".  The numbers proved otherwise and illuminated the Warren Report as a piece of fiction.

 

View PostUrabouttudie, on May 04 2018 - 16:12, said:

Here is what I know with a certainly, regarding "the numbers"...

 

People lie. People are self-serving. People are deceitful and deceptive and they will use whatever is at their disposable to convince you...to show you how it is really your own lying eyes which are deceiving you. Whatever you happen believe in and hold truthful...be it numbers or otherwise...will be the tool used to manipulate those beliefs.

 

This is what I know about the numbers....and people.

 

Trust. Your. Instincts.

 

Instincts are fallible and can be manipulated.  The key is knowing the limits of intuition; just as the key is knowing the limits of statistical analysis...

 



awildseaking #36 Posted May 21 2018 - 22:30

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 10736 battles
  • 735
  • [NEET] NEET
  • Member since:
    08-05-2015

View PostKamahl1234, on May 04 2018 - 14:36, said:

Something I don't get with this thought process is, wasn't the old MM where you often found more top tiers than currently, something which would have you fire premium more than 3/5/7?

 

Like if I only see 3 top tiers, that's at most 3 I "have" to shoot premium at, but the old MM often had 5+, sometimes as many as 15 enemy +2 tier tanks. IMO that MM wanted you to fire premium much more often. Limiting top tiers to at most 20% of the enemy team would greatly reduce premium ammo "needs" because now you have a set limit, and not players preparing for the worst possible. Heck I carry less premium now in battle than I've ever done before. 

 

The problem is semantics. Before 9.18, you "found" more top tiers in the sense that you could be the lone T8 in an entirely T10 match and thus "saw" more T10s, but those matches were not common. 3/5/7 also draws more bottom tiers into a match, so even if you're no longer the lone T8, there are fewer T8s in the queue than before, which makes a T8-9, T8, T7-8, or T6-8 match less likely to occur. If you added up all your matches before and after 9.18, I'm sure you saw more top tiers nominally before templates were added. Just one game as the only bottom tier counts towards the total as much as 5 games in 3/5/7. Despite that, the result of 9.18 is feeling undergunned more often than before. Logically, this makes sense. Would you rather have a small percentage of hellish games as a single bottom tier tank or almost never be top tier?

 

Because you could be a lone bottom tier, you were less important. A T10 wouldn't waste their time focusing a T8 when there's a ton of other T10s that can royally screw them. I believe this made support easier. In 3/5/7, that T10 only has a few tanks to worry about that are a serious threat.

 

Also, you assumed that gold is fired because of the presence of top tiers. I do the exact opposite. I load gold at the beginning of the round (or at any point during the round) when I need to secure damage or a kill. I don't want to leave it up to a 60% pen roll and dispersion. However, there are a lot of situations where even gold isn't enough to pen T10s. Before 9.18, if I ran into a tank I couldn't pen, I either repositioned or aimed for their tracks. Gold only becomes necessary when it gives you enough pen. If I'm going to bounce either way, I simply don't shoot.


Edited by awildseaking, May 21 2018 - 22:36.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users