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Advise to the beginner: dont pick German tanks


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CSSBT #21 Posted May 21 2018 - 19:22

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The problem is that many history buffs went for the historical German vehicles and expect them to perform well like they did in real life. But in WOT, there are many speculative, blueprint, semi-fictional, a-historically configured vehicles that are more powerful. The game is somewhat balanced around those vehicles, and the MM put some vehicles in match ups that would be unlikely in real life. For example, the Object 430 at tier 9 is a prototype of the T64 main battle tank, a second generation post war tank. As a tier 9, it'll see tier 7s, including the Tiger. In real life the Tiger essentially faced and dominated tanks that are effectively tier 4s and stock tier 5s like the T-34 with the short 76mm and M4 with the short 75mm...  Meanwhile for example, the T29 heavy tank, the American tier 7, was historically a conceptual response to the earlier heavies in the war such as Tiger, KV, and IS... And nowadays, the top end of the game is over-saturated with seriously overpowered vehicles that weren't mass produced or fielded in real life, like the Japanese heavies or Swedish heavies. I guess WG introduced them to make the game "interesting". But then historical vehicles simply stand no chance against them. :(

KaiserMartens #22 Posted May 22 2018 - 03:26

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I am a German fan but this is true, most of our tanks are not newbie friendly.

 

In the early tiers only Hetzer with the big gun and Panzer II are good for newcomers.



TankFullOfBourbon #23 Posted May 22 2018 - 21:34

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View PostMFGrant, on May 18 2018 - 04:11, said:

I don't know.  The reverse could be said about the line.   I started German line and with how unique the tanks play I feel it helped teach me the game because if you do it wrong you'll be punished pretty quickly.    After I got the hang of it jumping into other nations almost felt like cheat mode.

 

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. But seriously, I wonder how many players rage quit WOT because of the German tree was the first nation they played?

HansReichardt #24 Posted May 22 2018 - 21:59

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I would say the German heavy line is most certainly not for beginners. I made the mistake of focusing on that early on, until I got to the Tiger II and was ready to tear my hair out.

 

The medium line is more forgiving, as the VK series are nice, all-around tanks that the average player can do well in. 

 

The TD line is good, but once you get to tier VI, it gets very difficult. TDs largely lose their effectiveness in this game past tier 7, as the enemy now has scouts and mediums that can see you from 400+ meters, even if you are behind bushes, and have guns that can blast right through your front with ease. The Jagdpanzer IV and Jagdpanther must rely on sitting still, hiding, and then shredding enemy tanks when they get into range. Those TDs can't really drive around and play aggressively. They require a lot of patience and good positioning--something new players lack.

 

But the OP is correct. For the beginner, go with Russian or American tanks--they are much easier to play. 



Cognitive_Dissonance #25 Posted May 22 2018 - 22:29

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Look at my most played tank, Jagdpanther. Yeah, I did it too, and suffered for it.

 

Still, now that I have the experience and I have and a six skill crew in her . . . she can definitely put the hurt down range!


Edited by Cognitive_Dissonance, May 22 2018 - 22:30.


dunniteowl #26 Posted May 23 2018 - 04:27

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I am on the fence about the OPs advice.  In general, I will agree, the German tanks, especially as you go past tier III, get relatively difficult to do well in consistently if you don't know the mechanics very well. 

 

You can have 'magic' games in your DW2, JgPz IV, Leopard (LT tier V) or even your VK 30.01, but don't count on them.  Definitely do not expect to dominate unless you are top tier in those kinds of units -- and be careful about that kind of thinking.  Most of the time, you'll be wondering as the clock ticks down and you have sized up the team comps and the map, "Why did I pick this line again?"

 

I am working US, UK, RUS, GER & SW lines.  I started originally with US, UK & GER.  I rushed up tier in the GER line in the TDs to my first (and for a long time ONLY) tier VI JgPz IV.

 

I will say that the German tanks are, on the whole, a much more difficult to master set of units.  They have these quirky things that make an otherwise awesome unit into an almost 'meh' and in some cases, nearly 'bleh' unit.  Like the Leopard.  It' s GINORMOUS as LTs go.  And it isn't THAT fast.  It's gun is ho hum for the single fire (though I admit I like it over the pew-pew autoloader) and decent when used properly for the auto cannon -- which I cannot do.

 

Both these units are my worst performing units.  Some folks out there really like them and occasionally, I seem to have the 'magic' game, though I am certain it's not due to me being suddenly more able -- I know good fortune when it smiles upon me and I do my best to leverage that by not being stupid.

 

This may be the best lesson you can learn from these tanks.  Patience, timing and mechanics knowledge are KEY in learning to use these tanks well.  You cannot rapidly WASD and LMB your way to greatness in these tanks.  You become smoking wreckage very quickly in all the above mentioned tanks plus others at those tiers when caught unawares -- or if too aggressive and moving out in the open or brawling in the wrong spot.

 

I can't say that Russian tanks at these lower tiers are any better overall.  I can recommend the US line as a relatively solid line of LT, TD and MED tanks lines at least up to tier V for the most part.  I really like the T1 Heavy (T5 US) and it is currently my favorite tank to play when I can get my fps above 15 and my ping around 65, which hasn't happened in a good, long while now.

 

The UK line is patchy, finicky and crossed with a hodgepodge of solid performing tanks with units up tier from them that are worse, even when fully researched, tier for tier.  Strange.  Their weaponry and frontal armor tend to be decent most times.  Speed is one of those odd, finicky things where some tanks can't run to save their lives (Matilda, Valentine AT, Bishop & Churchill [damn near as tall as a TOG]   ;) no matter what you think of their guns or armor, you can't turn or move fast enough to make any LT care about them much.  Oh, don't even get me started on the AT2, which just got nerfed as if it wasn't hard enough to play that thing.

 

Sorry.

 

Yes, OP is correct.  German units are generally harder than other lines to do well in the same class/tier category as their other nation counterparts.  If you can do so, though, those 'magic' games will come more often and the regular games are much more likely to net you at least a Fighter and Fire for Effect routinely.

 

So they are harder to play.  This might make you desire to learn more about the game -- or let go of your fantasies of a kinder, gentler German army under your command and stop playing the German line.  Either way, you learn something from it.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF



Not_Connery #27 Posted May 23 2018 - 16:20

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View Postdunniteowl, on May 23 2018 - 04:27, said:

The UK line is patchy, finicky and crossed with a hodgepodge of solid performing tanks with units up tier from them that are worse, even when fully researched, tier for tier.  Strange.  Their weaponry and frontal armor tend to be decent most times.  Speed is one of those odd, finicky things where some tanks can't run to save their lives (Matilda, Valentine AT, Bishop & Churchill [damn near as tall as a TOG]   ;) no matter what you think of their guns or armor, you can't turn or move fast enough to make any LT care about them much.  Oh, don't even get me started on the AT2, which just got nerfed as if it wasn't hard enough to play that thing.

 

Sorry.

 

I think this is the closest I have ever seen dunniteowl get to raging...

 

Then he throws the "Sorry" in there. :teethhappy:

 

You are a great guy, dunniteowl...  Never change. :honoring:

 


wylleEcoyote #28 Posted May 25 2018 - 18:37

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View PostBada_Bing_Bam_Boom, on May 16 2018 - 11:56, said:

I am new and am doing the Italian line.

I will be honest I was thinking of doing Td's next and I was planning on doing German because I read up and learned they have the best accuracy/camo rating for TD's. Maybe I won't do TD's next then and maybe go do heavies or lights next?

 

if your looking for an uncomplicated super accurate TD sniper line that still has that #nordicaccuracy go down the swedish line.

THe thing about the Italian line is its very flexible "Autoloader on demand" style from tier 8 up.  if that really floats your boat you have two choices.  

Double down on the burst damage meta and try the french auto loaders. Fair Warning


Take the #moardeeps route and try out the American mediums.  Their ability to throw out some dpm while on the move is noteworthy.
And the capacity to go hull down with somewhat reliable bouncy turrets and good gun depression when you cant run off is nice as well.

And because it hasnt been said yet... There is the Russian Tech Tree. In addition to having a line (or two or three) for everything,
if Wot has an easy mode this is it.  (#russianBias #HandofStalinGuidesMyAim) 
Grab yourself the berlin quintent training vehicles that print out credits and xp. and its bia crews for going up any one of of the different Russian TD Heavy and Medium lines. 
And also an OP Cromwell B for screwing around.  And an American medium trainer in the Thunderbolt (and crew dont forget the BiA crew) if you want to dabble in that line as well.

All else will end in tears pf frustration

Edited by wylleEcoyote, May 25 2018 - 18:55.


_CreepingDeath_ #29 Posted Jun 15 2018 - 14:42

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I did start off with the German lights. I still have a soft spot for them!

 



TrevorsT112 #30 Posted Jun 15 2018 - 15:28

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View Postthedestoryer321, on May 16 2018 - 03:25, said:

The German tds are basically the same as the other tds, just sit in bush and farm the damage.

 

View PostBonnieKitty, on May 16 2018 - 12:51, said:

Too late!

I blissfully picked Germans, Americans, Russians, and Swedes to start out on. I do only have heavies in the American and Russian lines currently, though I'm working on getting my first German heavy.

Not that my WR isn't still circling the bowl, but I think the German low tier mediums are not unusual compared to other lines. I can get smashed quickly in any brand. Maybe the fact that I am crawling up the tiers, not sprinting, is helpful. My one game in a DW2 scared me off, so I sold it right back. Soon I'll trade in my IVH for a 36.01H, and hopefully it won't be such a shock.

I also like my Grille and Leopard.

 

View PostMFGrant, on May 18 2018 - 04:11, said:

I don't know.  The reverse could be said about the line.   I started German line and with how unique the tanks play I feel it helped teach me the game because if you do it wrong you'll be punished pretty quickly.    After I got the hang of it jumping into other nations almost felt like cheat mode.

 

I am still new at the game so have not been able to make a well formed opinion about which tank line is better for beginners, but my initial reaction would be to agree with the above quotes. Compared to most other players, I know I am terrible, but that does not bother me. But then again, I am not really the type to pull haïr out, except for the occasional curse, or scream because I haven't unlocked a 6 skill crew after 200 battles. And I doubt that I would do any better then I am currently doing in another tank line. I am currently developing the German line for now because that is what I want to do, but more importantly, I am having fun.

 



da_Rock002 #31 Posted Jun 15 2018 - 16:06

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View PostTankFullOfBourbon, on May 22 2018 - 15:34, said:

 

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. But seriously, I wonder how many players rage quit WOT because of the German tree was the first nation they played?

 

 

No it isn't.   Anymore than a painting of a clock is correct at any time. 

 

On the other hand, the German tree is challenged mightily all day long and into the night. 

One thing most newbies won't notice right away is how gimped the aiming is on some of the decent German tanks.  They have what are slightly more accurate guns, but then they have slow aiming times.    Slow aiming knocks the props out from under any gun.   Get into trouble and count on your accuracy being late to the problem.   



da_Rock002 #32 Posted Jun 15 2018 - 16:19

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I was one of those beginners who took the German bait.   I didn't notice the German handicap until WG made a big production out of "buffing" the German tanks to "correct" their weaknesses.   I noted the stats of all the German tanks I had before the "buff" and after to see what the noise was all about.   When I spotted an improvement I noted it and after that, started comparing the new and improved ones to the other tanks in class/tier.     :confused:     It was a lesson in advertising.       I discovered vBAddict awhile after that and decided to see how the "buffing" had worked.   :teethhappy:   vBAddict has functionality that compares a whole tier/type/etc and lists from the best down.    It's interesting how some nationalities come out in those lists.    The lists also help newbies understand things, like this discussion for instance.  

 

It's actually a great idea for newbies to avoid quite a number of nationalities...  and trees....  and tanks.....   and ignore WG advertising just about entirely.






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