147 replies to this topic

[TankFullOfBourbon]

GenPanzer, on May 15 2018 - 12:43, said:

So, with Frontline, can everyone, even the most hardened stat lover out there, see how it is possible to play this game JUST for fun?

 

I have read many posters about the new FL say it's great fun and they don't care if they win or lose because it doesn't show up on their records.

 

This is the mentality of about 80% of the player base in pubs, except they don't care if it shows up on their record. I really hope this overall FUN mentality carries over to pubs when this FL mode is over.

 

I got the first camo and pulled out. The respawning and the lack of tangible results makes this a kiddie game, IMHO. Not for me.

[Ape_Drape]

Ded_man, on May 15 2018 - 19:03, said:

 

I can't speak for anyone or everyone, but I have fun win or lose in FL because I simply don't like being penalized for the teams failures. I get it, their failure is my failure, team game, I'm in the team, yadda yadda. The fact that FL rewards me by the effort I put in, win or lose is satisfactory to me.

 

This would be a different story if FL was set up like randoms and the income was based on winning consistently in order to profit or offset the cost of shells and repair bills, like randoms. I've gravitated to playing premiums all the time in random pub matches to maintain my fun, rarely will one ever see me in anything but (until I've gained enough credits to buy a new tank, play a match or two, wash/repeat). When I'm in the red, I'm not having fun. So it's not so much about winning for me to have fun, than it is xp and monetary pixels. I would gladly lose every time as a team if I'm rewarded accordingly as an individual (but of course, I would like to win..competitively).

 

The introduction to Courageous Resistance/Hero Medals introduced was a nice try, but not enough. Random matches are about individual play, reward me based on my individual play. Not simply because I played like a super star, will you throw me a bone.

 

This man gets it.

This is why losing RBs sucks.

[BillT]

Duqe, on May 15 2018 - 06:58, said:

Bad players are just brain damaged and somehow accepted being bad as being something that is enjoyable. Bad players saying "I don't play for stats, I play to have fun" just don't understand anything.

.

 

At least bad players understand how to not be an elitist jerk.  Seriously: just when I think you can't possibly be any more hateful and ignorant, you out-do yourself.  I prefer bad players to bad people.

[shinglefoot]

BillT, on May 15 2018 - 17:12, said:

 

At least bad players understand how to not be an elitist jerk.  Seriously: just when I think you can't possibly be any more hateful and ignorant, you out-do yourself.  I prefer bad players to bad people.

 

​     Hey at least he hasn't played the "subhuman" card...

 

 

Yet...

[BillT]

Cognitive_Dissonance, on May 15 2018 - 10:35, said:

So winning, regardless of other stats, is the very foundation of WoT. Even the terms used in it's advertising, clicking into the game, and the very way the game is pitched all invokes "combat" and "win vs. defeat". So all the other arguments about playing for fun and other stuff are just ways to obfuscate that someone is there to enjoy the game on their terms, but not really put any effort into the very premise of the game which is to defeat the enemy, and come out on top as the winner. 

  

I simply don't think that last part is true.  

 

I play for fun.  That doesn't mean I'm not trying to win every game I'm in.  It just means that I don't need to win every game to enjoy myself. I'm sure that if I worked harder at the game I could improve my stats, but I don't want to turn WOT into a chore.

 

You wrote, "Games, as a whole, from the beginning of time have but one simple premise. Pitting one opponent against another, where one wins and one is defeated."  I'll grant you that, but that doesn't mean the purpose of playing games is to win.  Think about books or movies, any kind of story.  They have to have conflict to be interesting, but that doesn't mean the only purpose of the story is to tell you how the conflict worked out.  The conflict is just a tool to create the tension that lets the author develop characters and create an interesting plot arc.   You don't watch "The Lord of the Rings" -- let alone watch it several times -- to see who wins the conflict, you do it because the journey itself is fun.

 

Consider amateur softball leagues.  Everyone wants to win, but only a few people want to practice every day, spend time in the weight room, and do other chores that will help them win.  The vast majority are not playing to be the best softballers they can be, they're playing for fun, and they invest accordingly.  There are a few hyper-competitive types who do all that stuff, and maybe they look at the other amateurs as losers... but the fact is, they are the oddballs for caring too much about the outcome of a game: for playing to win, instead of playing because the playing itself is fun.. 

[BillT]

For me, I think the most fun thing about FL is that there are no fast blow-outs.  You never get those games where your team collapses (or wins) in four minutes and you never got a chance to play much, or games where you made an early mistake that got you killed.  The game is guaranteed to go long enough for you to get into a good fight, score some damage, kill some tanks, and to walk away feeling like you did something good.   Even if you die stupidly several time, you'll still "have your moment".

 

It's like amateur golf, for me.  I'm a duffer, and anything under 100 is a good day.   If I only played 3 holes a week, I'd probably hate the game because usually they'd all be bogies or worse.  But if I play 18 holes, the odds are that somewhere along the way I'm going to have a couple of really nice shots, an amazing putt, or a par, and I'll go home remembering I did something well.  That's enough to make me want to come back the next week. 

[Mikosah]

Nunya_000, on May 15 2018 - 12:20, said:

 

A win or a loss is not going to make a difference in your ability to feed those mouths or pay those bills.  Your "time and energy" is already lost the minute you decided to play a game.  The outcome of battles have no relevance.

 

The difference is that if a mediocre performance on my part happens to still end up in a win, then the income of both exp and credits is much higher. And there could also be a daily multiplier in play. In fact I could do very poorly but still laugh all the way to the bank if the team wins in the end. But the opposite is also true, that I could do very well as an individual but if I don't meet the arbitrary requirements for 'courageous resistance' then I end up walk away empty-handed if my side doesn't win.

 

FL's advantages over the randoms in this respect are twofold- for one, just by not recording stats like win/loss and still having good earning potential in a loss makes far less concern that the team's mistakes will be at your expense. And secondly, but not having a daily multiplier to chase after, any one loss or even a series of losses aren't robbing you of anything in particular. 

[AnArmyofBun]

TankFullOfBourbon, on May 15 2018 - 13:32, said:

 

I got the first camo and pulled out. The respawning and the lack of tangible results makes this a kiddie game, IMHO. Not for me.

 

My free exp and credits say there's a very tangible result.

[kekaha]

I_QQ_4_U, on May 15 2018 - 16:59, said:

I love the players that play for fun by sitting at the back of the map hiding behind a rock. Don't they know they can do that in the proving grounds?

 

Pub rocks give better xp than PG rocks

[Deputy276]

Cognitive_Dissonance, on May 15 2018 - 10:14, said:

 

I am not dictating anything.

 

I am pointing out obvious truths about the game, and then I am pointing out the obvious fact that those who play for enjoyment that don't directly contribute to the goal of the game (winning) should at least admit they are a detriment to the goal while doing their own thing. That is closer to the truth, than anyone who tries to turn the argument against people who get upset about folks that don't work at winning are "stat" and "epeen" obsessed.

 

So if I am wrong, go to a local park where folks are playing chess, randomly as they do with folks that just drop in to play against any opponent, and just sit there listening to the birds. When the guy on the other "team" complains that you are not contributing toward the goal of the game, tell them that the game of chess (or any game) has nothing to do with winning or losing, but just however you want to enjoy it . . . see how far you get.

 

 

 

Nooooo...sorry. You are just posting an opinion. YOUR opinion. It doesn't make it right or absolute. You DO know what they say about opinions, right? But nice to see you admit this is a game and doesn't matter whether you win OR lose. It is a game. Just something to pass the time. Not gonna put food on the table or pay your rent. Simple fact is, a whole loot of peiople just don't give a [Edited] whether they win or lose. You just haven't accepted it is all. Something else, most people don't give a [Edited] if someone else on the team has a good time or not. Not like a team member is gonna come to your house and shoot out your windows if you don't do well. Although sometimes I wish some dweeb would try it 

I don't give two squirts about chess. That is a completely different game. So just how much is WG paying you to do well? I bet ZERO dollars. WG even advertises this game as something folks use to let off steam. NOT to be taken seriously. Taking this game seriously is YOUR choice. And YOU don't get to be mouthpiece for all players.

Now I am goign back and play for fun. Too bad so sad. Deal with it. If I win, great. If I lose, great. I get enjoyment either way. Maybe eventually you will mature enough to understand that. It is ONLY a game. If you really want to make a difference, enlist in the Army and request tanker training. That might wake you up to reality. WOT is NOT reality. 

[AnArmyofBun]

Deputy276, on May 15 2018 - 15:46, said:

 

Nooooo...sorry. You are just posting an opinion. YOUR opinion. It doesn't make it right or absolute. You DO know what they say about opinions, right? But nice to see you admit this is a game and doesn't matter whether you win OR lose. It is a game. Just something to pass the time. Not gonna put food on the table or pay your rent. Simple fact is, a whole loot of peiople just don't give a [Edited] whether they win or lose. You just haven't accepted it is all. Something else, most people don't give a [Edited] if someone else on the team has a good time or not. Not like a team member is gonna come to your house and shoot out your windows if you don't do well. Although sometimes I wish some dweeb would try it 

I don't give two squirts about chess. That is a completely different game. So just how much is WG paying you to do well? I bet ZERO dollars. WG even advertises this game as something folks use to let off steam. NOT to be taken seriously. Taking this game seriously is YOUR choice. And YOU don't get to be mouthpiece for all players.

Now I am goign back and play for fun. Too bad so sad. Deal with it. If I win, great. If I lose, great. I get enjoyment either way. Maybe eventually you will mature enough to understand that. It is ONLY a game. If you really want to make a difference, enlist in the Army and request tanker training. That might wake you up to reality. WOT is NOT reality. 

 

Yes.  It's only a game and this is a fine viewpoint.  I personally just don't understand being okay with being bad at a hobby I've sunk many many hours in.  To me it would be like building model's as a hobby but using a hot glue gun not painting the model and leaving it assembled with gaps and pieces missing.  But doing that for *hundreds* of models.  It just doesn't make sense to me to not get better at something after doing it thousands of times. 

[kekaha]

Cognitive_Dissonance, on May 15 2018 - 17:18, said:

the central "tenant".

 

You keep using that word....

I don't think it means what you think it means

[Deputy276]

FrozenKemp, on May 15 2018 - 13:09, said:

 

I wasn't trying to say it was a universal reason   WarChild listed a number of possible reasons someone might play and I wanted to add one more to the list. 

 

It's more like - that is my default objective when I launch a game of WoT.  I want to try to do at least well.  I am not launching the game to see what happens if I do random stuff.  

 

And I didn't mean to say that I stomp my feet and sulk when I lose, either.  Part of it is the enjoyment of winning and part if it is the enjoyment of doing something well.  So like you said, you might have a game which comes out to be a loss but you did really well and hopefully get enjoyment out of that.  And sometimes a game is so close - maybe even a 1v1 - and you lose to better play but you can see how the other player outsmarted you and maybe after the game you want to say "gg" to them. 

 

Okay...understood. My bad if I garbled your meaning 

[Deputy276]

AnArmyofBun, on May 15 2018 - 16:50, said:

 

Yes.  It's only a game and this is a fine viewpoint.  I personally just don't understand being okay with being bad at a hobby I've sunk many many hours in.  To me it would be like building model's as a hobby but using a hot glue gun not painting the model and leaving it assembled with gaps and pieces missing.  But doing that for *hundreds* of models.  It just doesn't make sense to me to not get better at something after doing it thousands of times. 

 

Someone already answered your question, but I'll say it again. Some folks don't have the abilities of others to play well. I am old and my reflexes are way less than they used to be. So I play at the best level I am able to play at. Now that may be greatly less than something like XVM considers "average". But I really don't give a [Edited], as long as I am enjoying myself. I not only sunk many hours, but many dollars into this game. My money and my choice, so I don't have to please anyone. If I didn't have fun and enjoy myself, I would quit. So would others.  Problem is people are trying to measure their idea of what "having fun" is, with others opinions of what is fun. That simply doesn't work. It's not about "okay with being bad", it's about being okay with doing the best you can. 

[Deputy276]

I am really curious...if people don't "Play for fun", why in God's name DO you play? For pain, misery, abuse, disrespect, to lord it over those who aren't as good as you? Certainly can't be for money. If being good in WOT is your life's ambition and all you have to brag about, good grief. Stop playing and get a life.  

Edited by Deputy276, May 16 2018 - 05:32.

[Nunya_000]

AnArmyofBun, on May 15 2018 - 14:50, said:

 

I personally just don't understand being okay with being bad at a hobby I've sunk many many hours in. 

 

You should take up golf and meet some other golfers.  They might give you some understanding of doing a hobby just for the joy of it. 

[_Tsavo_]

Nunya_000, on May 15 2018 - 19:00, said:

 

You should take up golf and meet some other golfers.  They might give you some understanding of doing a hobby just for the joy of it. 

 

I take the Clarskon approach to golf: Hit that little ball as hard as you can. Always.  POWAHHHHHH 

 

Even in minigolf it's a fight to not just whump that sucker into the next timezone.  

 

As such, I stick to driving ranges.

 

 

Though there is a decent par 3 golf course near me and I enjoy it quite a bit.  Even if I turn the par 3 into a par 9.

[AnArmyofBun]

Deputy276, on May 15 2018 - 16:00, said:

 

Someone already answered your question, but I'll say it again. Some folks don't have the abilities of others to play well. I am old and my reflexes are way less than they used to be. So I play at the best level I am able to play at. Now that may be greatly less than something like XVM considers "average". But I really don't give a [Edited], as long as I am enjoying myself. I not only sunk many hours, but many dollars into this game. My money and my choice, so I don't have to please anyone. If I didn't have fun and enjoy myself, I would quit. So would others.  Problem is people are trying to measure their idea of what "having fun" is, with others opinions of what is fun. That simply doesn't work. It's not about "okay with being bad", it's about being okay with doing the best you can. 

 

True.  Some don't.  But I'd be willing to bet a lot of the players who after 20k + battles don't improve don't do it out of some disability because there's a lot of them.

[AnArmyofBun]

Nunya_000, on May 15 2018 - 17:00, said:

 

You should take up golf and meet some other golfers.  They might give you some understanding of doing a hobby just for the joy of it. 

 

So if you played 10000 rounds of golf and still couldn't get on the green would you keep playing?

[Sgt__Guffy]

There are a number of social games played, certainly by older folk that amount to a get together. They play the game, have a cup of tea and a biscuit afterwards. Anyone who takes the game seriously are politely "tolerated."

 

No one likes a smart ar5e.

 

I've read the contributions so far, and whilst I understand the desire to win, which is very nice, I don't think many WOT players start the game thinking "I really don't want to win this game, it's more fun" Everyone likes to win. I think it is how you win or lose that is the key to most games. Some of the best games I have played on WOT I've lost, but the nature of the loss was the most entertaining. This game is all about entertainment. So winning a random game 15 - single digit has about the same entertainment value as losing single digit- 15. It is not fun and certainly not entertaining. I'm sure some players will get a kick out of winning by a large margin, but to me I feel disappointed for the outmatched team. 

 

Such is the desire to win, take gambling games for example, some people cheat. Nowadays fewer get away with it, but I think it sad  for people that need to have some advantage over their opponents just to win. Some players have been accused of cheating in WOT. I have no idea if that is true, or whether a better player has simply outplayed the accuser, but if they do cheat to get a win and get extra credits I think it sad that their desire to win and get extra credits is so important to them.

 

I play to be entertained. I play for fun. I am an average joe player and I will never be a unicum irrespective of how many hours I play the game.

 

I am still here, playing the game.

 

Have fun, being entertained,

 

Guffy.

Edited by Sgt__Guffy, May 16 2018 - 04:44.