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rufus374 #81 Posted May 16 2018 - 05:09

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View PostHurk, on May 15 2018 - 11:24, said:

IPFF and "lol who cares" are not the same thing. 

 

play with sportsmanship. thats all. i dont care *why* you play, i care that you play appropriately. that you compete properly, and that you participate with the intent of helping the team reach the objective and win. 

 

a frontline match yesterday, where we were assault and a player in a tiger II camps 400 meters behind the team to snipe constantly. complete misuse of his tank, completely ignoring the objective to simply farm.  this is an example of a player that is not playing with sportsmanship. he has no intent to actually help the team win, just to farm.  regardless of how good his "score" is at the end of the match, the game was won or lost without him. 

 

I just watched Quickybaby's Frontline video where he spends most of the match ignoring the actual objective and focusing on damage.  He actually says several times that the "best" way to play is to prolong the match as long as possible in order to get the most damage/exp.  At the very end, when he finally makes it near the big guns, he ignores them to continue farming damage in a loss.  But hey, at least he made General and got 650K credits.  I wanted to slap him through the screen.  What a crap way to approach the game.

Edited by rufus374, May 16 2018 - 05:10.


Deputy276 #82 Posted May 16 2018 - 05:35

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View PostSgt__Guffy, on May 15 2018 - 21:42, said:

There are a number of social games played, certainly by older folk that amount to a get together. They play the game, have a cup of tea and a biscuit afterwards. Anyone who takes the game seriously are politely "tolerated."

 

No one likes a smart ar5e.

 

I've read the contributions so far, and whilst I understand the desire to win, which is very nice, I don't think many WOT players start the game thinking "I really don't want to win this game, it's more fun" Everyone likes to win. I think it is how you win or lose that is the key to most games. Some of the best games I have played on WOT I've lost, but the nature of the loss was the most entertaining. This game is all about entertainment. So winning a random game 15 - single digit has about the same entertainment value as losing single digit- 15. It is not fun and certainly not entertaining. I'm sure some players will get a kick out of winning by a large margin, but to me I feel disappointed for the outmatched team. 

 

Such is the desire to win, take gambling games for example, some people cheat. Nowadays fewer get away with it, but I think it sad  for people that need to have some advantage over their opponents just to win. Some players have been accused of cheating in WOT. I have no idea if that is true, or whether a better player has simply outplayed the accuser, but if they do cheat to get a win and get extra credits I think it sad that their desire to win and get extra credits is so important to them.

 

I play to be entertained. I play for fun. I am an average joe player and I will never be a unicum irrespective of how many hours I play the game.

 

I am still here, playing the game.

 

Have fun, being entertained,

 

Guffy.

 

Well said Guff! :)

AnArmyofBun #83 Posted May 16 2018 - 06:06

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View Postrufus374, on May 15 2018 - 21:09, said:

 

I just watched Quickybaby's Frontline video where he spends most of the match ignoring the actual objective and focusing on damage.  He actually says several times that the "best" way to play is to prolong the match as long as possible in order to get the most damage/exp.  At the very end, when he finally makes it near the big guns, he ignores them to continue farming damage in a loss.  But hey, at least he made General and got 650K credits.  I wanted to slap him through the screen.  What a crap way to approach the game.

 

Unless you're playing for credits and exp.

Cognitive_Dissonance #84 Posted May 16 2018 - 12:36

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View Postkekaha, on May 15 2018 - 16:52, said:

 

You keep using that word....

I don't think it means what you think it means

 

TENENT - "a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially : one held in common by members of an organization, movement, etc . . . " Merriam Webster my friend.

 

I understand exactly what it means.


Edited by Cognitive_Dissonance, May 16 2018 - 14:25.


Cognitive_Dissonance #85 Posted May 16 2018 - 12:47

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View PostBillT, on May 15 2018 - 15:43, said:

  

I simply don't think that last part is true.  

 

I play for fun.  That doesn't mean I'm not trying to win every game I'm in.  It just means that I don't need to win every game to enjoy myself. I'm sure that if I worked harder at the game I could improve my stats, but I don't want to turn WOT into a chore.

 

You wrote, "Games, as a whole, from the beginning of time have but one simple premise. Pitting one opponent against another, where one wins and one is defeated."  I'll grant you that, but that doesn't mean the purpose of playing games is to win.  Think about books or movies, any kind of story.  They have to have conflict to be interesting, but that doesn't mean the only purpose of the story is to tell you how the conflict worked out.  The conflict is just a tool to create the tension that lets the author develop characters and create an interesting plot arc.   You don't watch "The Lord of the Rings" -- let alone watch it several times -- to see who wins the conflict, you do it because the journey itself is fun.

 

Consider amateur softball leagues.  Everyone wants to win, but only a few people want to practice every day, spend time in the weight room, and do other chores that will help them win.  The vast majority are not playing to be the best softballers they can be, they're playing for fun, and they invest accordingly.  There are a few hyper-competitive types who do all that stuff, and maybe they look at the other amateurs as losers... but the fact is, they are the oddballs for caring too much about the outcome of a game: for playing to win, instead of playing because the playing itself is fun.. 

 

I also mentioned though, that the folks who are in the match just for fun, could at least admit they are a detriment to those trying to win. This is actually my main beef. When the play for fun crowd gets called out, suddenly I am an epeen waving stat eltist. I am nothing of the sort.

 

I am an amateur Triathlon Ironman Athlete. I get beat all the time, but I train hard and put forth my best effort. I admire the folks that win AND the last person to cross the line. We all worked hard to get there, and that journey (as you reference) is filled with friends, blood, sweat, tears and joy. But no one does an Ironman for "fun". You are correct about softball etc. My kids did all these sports, all I ever asked them to do was try their best, and not beat themselves up if they lost etc. However, I did expect them to do the best they could, and no one can fault that on a loss.

 

I do find fault with "pew pew, I play for fun!" while a flank implodes, and mr. for fun drives off to explore a lake bed, or a mountain trail. If the game was truly setup for everyone including "I play for fun!" then it shouldn't have a "Battle" button, it shouldn't have opposing teams, and it shouldn't dole out XP, credits etc. based on performance. Hell it shouldn't even have a PR rating. All these things indicate and create an atmosphere of compitition.

 

So if WoT was to create a Tank game with no "Battle", no teams, no XP or credit based on performance, I would wager, it would fail miserably. Just because WoT can entertain those who choose to "entertain" themselves with a variety of methods outside a common goal, doesn't really mean it is helpful for those who are there to try and meet the basic intent of the game, which is to win.

 

But sure, you are correct, fun can mean anything to anybody.



Nunya_000 #86 Posted May 16 2018 - 14:10

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on May 15 2018 - 18:54, said:

 

So if you played 10000 rounds of golf and still couldn't get on the green would you keep playing?

 

You've never seen me golf.  The first time I went golfing, I shot a 68.  But I did much better on the second hole.

Hurk #87 Posted May 16 2018 - 15:53

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View PostTankFullOfBourbon, on May 15 2018 - 13:32, said:

I got the first camo and pulled out. The respawning and the lack of tangible results makes this a kiddie game, IMHO. Not for me.

I respect that opinion, but i found the opposite was mostly true for me. the respawn meant my teams early bad play that leads to my death does not end the game for me and that i can come back, pick a more suitable tank for the battle, and help the lemmings rush. I dont see it as a kiddie game at all, just as a normal team game where you can respawn and do better overall, your skill will eventually push over the enemy. 

 

i do agree players value their tanks less than they should, and that is an issue. also the free frontline tank spam is quite annoying as players with no skill at tier 8 flood the field in tanks they dont know how to use. 

limited to 1 single event and map is getting a little stale, and for whatever reason, the matcher loves putting me in sector C over and over again to start, so that aspect is getting on my nerves.

 

honestly, its quite refreshing to get away from the normal game. 



Deputy276 #88 Posted May 16 2018 - 16:28

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View PostCognitive_Dissonance, on May 16 2018 - 05:47, said:

 

I also mentioned though, that the folks who are in the match just for fun, could at least admit they are a detriment to those trying to win. This is actually my main beef. When the play for fun crowd gets called out, suddenly I am an epeen waving stat eltist. I am nothing of the sort.

 

I am an amateur Triathlon Ironman Athlete. I get beat all the time, but I train hard and put forth my best effort. I admire the folks that win AND the last person to cross the line. We all worked hard to get there, and that journey (as you reference) is filled with friends, blood, sweat, tears and joy. But no one does an Ironman for "fun". You are correct about softball etc. My kids did all these sports, all I ever asked them to do was try their best, and not beat themselves up if they lost etc. However, I did expect them to do the best they could, and no one can fault that on a loss.

 

I do find fault with "pew pew, I play for fun!" while a flank implodes, and mr. for fun drives off to explore a lake bed, or a mountain trail. If the game was truly setup for everyone including "I play for fun!" then it shouldn't have a "Battle" button, it shouldn't have opposing teams, and it shouldn't dole out XP, credits etc. based on performance. Hell it shouldn't even have a PR rating. All these things indicate and create an atmosphere of compitition.

 

So if WoT was to create a Tank game with no "Battle", no teams, no XP or credit based on performance, I would wager, it would fail miserably. Just because WoT can entertain those who choose to "entertain" themselves with a variety of methods outside a common goal, doesn't really mean it is helpful for those who are there to try and meet the basic intent of the game, which is to win.

 

But sure, you are correct, fun can mean anything to anybody.

 

I am in every match for fun and enjoyment. If WOT didn't provide fun and enjoyment, I would quit immediately. I think you are applying way too much import to the word "fun". Fun doesn't = goofing around and not trying to do your best. Fun to me (and it has a different meaning to everyone) means I have a good time. I enjoy myself. I am happy at what I do. I do not have to win to get that feeling. If I play well, than I have a better time than if I play poorly. And nobody is perfect at every game. It's simply not possible. There are way to many variables for someone to be "glorious" in every game.

 

WOT was created for one reason and one reason only, to make the owners piles of money. There is no other reason. It's not made to train future tankers. It's not going to change the world in any way. You aren't fighting for the Constitutional Republic or a Dictatorship. It's just a pixel tank game. Now some folks like to give it a lot more importance than that. I've seen new players who described being eliminated in their tank as "dying". Nobody "dies" in WOT. Their tank is simply destroyed. Yet new players insist they "died". 

 

Being really good at WOT just means you are really good at a game. Nothing more. And the simple fact is, since WG wants as many people to play as possible, they welcome both good and bad players. As long as they eventually spend money on the game, and they usually do, WG is happy. You have no idea how hard someone is playing this game, unless they openly admit they are just goofing around. And yes, those players exist and there isn't ONE thing you can do about it. Pissing and moaning on the forum won't eliminate it. I doubt they even know a forum exists, and I doubt they would pay any attention to your complaints. Or maybe they would just laugh at them and good around even more.

 

And the Battle button. Again...you are giving too much import to it's name. They could just as easily have "Start" instead of Battle and there are even mods to change the name of that button. I suspect they used Battle because of the type of activity that goes on after you press the button. But that's all it means. WG was very diligent in the way they created this game. Note there is no blood or gore. When a tank is eliminated, you are told to abandon it. It doesn't say "your crew was turned into unidentifiable pulp and mush and their heads were decapitated", which often happens in real life armored battles. There's a reason why WG did it that way. It was to get a rating that would allow even little urchins of 12 to play the game. And I would bet $$ there are a ton of children under 12 that are playing. All you have to do is read some posts on the forum to discover that. So expecting urchins to play as well as teenagers or 20-30 somethings is just ridiculous. Some may be great. But just as many do the pew-pew thing. Accept it and move on. 


Edited by Deputy276, May 16 2018 - 16:31.


NeatoMan #89 Posted May 16 2018 - 16:33

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I agree, win/lose doesn't really matter as much to me in this mode, but I would still like to see what my average damage, XP, and kpg is for the tanks I play in frontline,

Pongo #90 Posted May 16 2018 - 17:09

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View PostGenPanzer, on May 15 2018 - 11:43, said:

So, with Frontline, can everyone, even the most hardened stat lover out there, see how it is possible to play this game JUST for fun?

 

I have read many posters about the new FL say it's great fun and they don't care if they win or lose because it doesn't show up on their records.

 

This is the mentality of about 80% of the player base in pubs, except they don't care if it shows up on their record. I really hope this overall FUN mentality carries over to pubs when this FL mode is over.

You just do not realize that the game mode is forcing you to do the things that the "play to win" players wish you would do all the time. 

not hide, not be a lemming.

The game tells you where you have to go and how long you have to get there. The game lets you repair or replace your tank that you do not have the judgment to keep alive a normal match. 

It is like a training mode for the bad players in the game. And no matter how many times you die the good players can keep  farming.

So ya, should be called the "Red Shirt" mode lol

I am sure that WG is glad you like it.



BillT #91 Posted May 16 2018 - 17:17

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View Post_Tsavo_, on May 15 2018 - 21:37, said:

 

Though there is a decent par 3 golf course near me and I enjoy it quite a bit.  Even if I turn the par 3 into a par 9.

 

I like to think of it as a value proposition.  Good golfers play that hole in three shots.  I play it in six.  We both paid the same.  QED, I got to play more golf for my money than they did. :-) 



Kenshin2kx #92 Posted May 16 2018 - 17:17

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View PostCognitive_Dissonance, on May 16 2018 - 01:36, said:

 

TENENT - "a principle, belief, or doctrine generally held to be true; especially : one held in common by members of an organization, movement, etc . . . " Merriam Webster my friend.

 

I understand exactly what it means.

 

Initially I chalked it up to on the fly typo, but since you defined the term ...

 

Its "Tenet" ... not "Tenent"

 

Tenet:  A principle or belief, especially one of the main principles of a religion or philosophy.

 

Tenent was the common spelling in the 1600s for tenet, which was defined as a belief or principle. Today it is a common misspelling for either tenet or tenant, which are defined as someone who rents a space.

 

I am thinking this is what Kehaha was alluding to ...


Edited by Kenshin2kx, May 16 2018 - 17:19.


Altwar #93 Posted May 16 2018 - 17:22

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View PostNunya_000, on May 16 2018 - 05:10, said:

 

You've never seen me golf.  The first time I went golfing, I shot a 68.  But I did much better on the second hole.

 

+1  I am sure that's an old joke but I've never seen it before and thought it was quite funny! :teethhappy:

Hurk #94 Posted May 16 2018 - 17:25

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on May 15 2018 - 22:06, said:

Unless you're playing for credits and exp.

wrong. 

a win will always net more than a loss. and a series of well played fast games will always net more than slow grinds of losses.

 

basically, its that hes ignoring the win bonuses... he could have earned 500k, and won, thus getting 750k, but instead, drug out the game, and lost, only earning 650k. 



BillT #95 Posted May 16 2018 - 17:26

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on May 15 2018 - 21:54, said:

 

So if you played 10000 rounds of golf and still couldn't get on the green would you keep playing?

 

I think you're being difficult.   Earlier you asked a reasonable question:

 

Block Quote

  I personally just don't understand being okay with being bad at a hobby I've sunk many many hours in.  

 

But when someone gives you an honest explanation such as "It's like golf", why do you want to argue with them?  They answered your question, and it's a good answer.   You ought to respond, "Hmm.  I don't see the appeal in that, but I suppose some people do." 

 

It seems like you're really asserting that people can't possibly enjoy playing WOT if they're not good at it.  Yet here they are.  So you must have some alternative theory as to why bad players keep playing.  Why not just tell us, instead of asking for answers then swatting them down?

 

 



BillT #96 Posted May 16 2018 - 17:55

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View PostCognitive_Dissonance, on May 16 2018 - 06:47, said:

 

I also mentioned though, that the folks who are in the match just for fun, could at least admit they are a detriment to those trying to win. This is actually my main beef. When the play for fun crowd gets called out, suddenly I am an epeen waving stat eltist. I am nothing of the sort.

 

I am an amateur Triathlon Ironman Athlete. I get beat all the time, but I train hard and put forth my best effort. I admire the folks that win AND the last person to cross the line. We all worked hard to get there, and that journey (as you reference) is filled with friends, blood, sweat, tears and joy. But no one does an Ironman for "fun"..

 

For you to say the people playing for fun are a "detriment to those trying to win" is presumptuous -- you're assuming the game is meant for those trying to win, and those having fun are unwanted invaders.   I could argue you have that backwards, and you're being more competitive than this game actually justifies.   Yes, XP is doled out based on performance, and that encourages people to play better: but everyone gets some XP even if they do nothing, so clearly the game isn't designed only to reward good performers.  I think the game is a compromise: enough merit-based-reward and stats for the competitive players, while still letting the "for fun" players slowly progress just for playing the game.  

 

Back to the softball analogy, a nice thing is that there are different leagues for different levels of skill and commitment.  Someone like you can get into a more challenging league where everyone else is really committed to winning, while I can play in a more laid-back league.  Unfortunately WOT only gives us one league for pub matches.  Given that, I honestly think you're the one who's mistaken: it's simply not reasonable to expect that 14 random people are all as dedicated to improvement as you are.  And when you demand that of people, they think you're waving your epeen.

 

(That epeen comment is unfair obviously; but so is your assumption that "I play for fun" means "I don't even try to play well.")

 

I'm curious... you say nobody does an Ironman for fun.  So why do you do it?



Flarvin #97 Posted May 16 2018 - 18:12

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View PostAnArmyofBun, on May 15 2018 - 21:54, said:

 

So if you played 10000 rounds of golf and still couldn't get on the green would you keep playing?

 

Yes. I play golf for fun. 

 

A few beers and friends, and who cares if you can’t get it on the green. 



Mikosah #98 Posted May 16 2018 - 18:20

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View PostHurk, on May 16 2018 - 10:25, said:

wrong. 

a win will always net more than a loss. and a series of well played fast games will always net more than slow grinds of losses.

 

basically, its that hes ignoring the win bonuses... he could have earned 500k, and won, thus getting 750k, but instead, drug out the game, and lost, only earning 650k. 

 

You're presuming that there was a clear avenue to securing the win. Sometimes there is, but sometimes there isn't. When there isn't, the ability to instead play for damage is a viable alternative and that's a good thing. Better to have that option than to just lay back and surrender. Besides this, there is something to be said for helping the team via damage itself. Repair points and respawns are on long timers, every point of damage does help your team advance.

Pongo #99 Posted May 16 2018 - 18:55

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View PostFlarvin, on May 16 2018 - 17:12, said:

 

Yes. I play golf for fun. 

 

A few beers and friends, and who cares if you can’t get it on the green. 

ya and you do not care if you take 8 hours to play a round and the whole course is jammed up behind you.

Most red players in this game would be marshaled off any non clown show golf course.



minneerminneer #100 Posted May 16 2018 - 19:38

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Well the main difference for me is even on a loss not playing prem I can net over 100k profit and 9k xp for the main tank I played





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