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Crews should be forced to retire after a tour of duty...


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mjmdiver #1 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:40

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OK, hear me out on this... I haven't seen this idea come up before, and I'm not sure if it makes any sense, but I think it could be beneficial.

 

People have been discussing that there is a problem with this game as it ages that there are many very experienced people out there that might be up to 100,000 matches or so, and it's pretty clear that the crews in their most used tanks will be 5-6 skill crews or more by that time.  If they play exclusively a small set of tanks, they will have maxed out the skills a long time ago.  Beginners already have the disadvantages of being new to the game, but also having incomplete training and/or extremely low skills on the crews. This makes it harder to compete on the merits of the actual skills of the players and discourages new players to continue.

 

However, the reality of crews in the military is that most go through a tour and then are released, and at the very least, they get rotated into the front and then pulled back for periods, so there is a need to rotate crews in a larger scale. Plus, they actually die, which in WoT only happens in the actual match you are playing. After which, they are reincarnated!

 

If WG essentially created a "tour" for each crew member and capped them to number of matches or something similar, it would force turnover that could do a bunch of different things:

1 - Give people goals for more personal missions after completing the four currently available or similar

2 - Level the playing field somewhat through turnover of crew

3 - Encourage larger barracks and more diversity in tank use

4 - Create a new dynamic that people will need to plan into their gaming strategy some

5 - Would also make seal clubbing less rewarding because it would reduce the average skill level of the crews for an experienced player (I'm thinking of those guys the run E25's and similar all the time).

 

Actually, maybe the better proposition is that they "retire" when they have reached a certain skill level, not based on number of matches. So, if you are really good, you will cycle through crew faster. The cap could be placed low enough that for some tanks, you would need to decide which skills really are the ones you want to have, because you can't just keep adding additional ones beyond, say, 3 skills, because it will be time to retire.

 

Either way, I think the goal of this could be accomplished; forcing crew turnover and providing an additional variable for the game that will add complexity.

 

For example, I have about 4500 matches on my account, so I'm fairly new and not terribly skilled as of yet.  I do best at about T5/T6 where I have a few tanks that I am running about 53-55%, mostly American mediums and lights. As I move up, my WR drops considerably, so I have been working to gain skills before moving higher (other than some premium tanks, which have been useful for some of the personal missions).

 

My M4 crew has 3 full skills and am getting close with skill #4. I have the RAM II, the Thunderbolt, the M46KR, and the Super Pershing that I rotate the same crew through to train them up. At the moment, there is no penalty to doing that, and I will probably place that crew into the next higher medium when I get it, or maybe retrain them for a different class of tank and then start another set in the M4. If, however, there was a life limit, this work to train up would be of somewhat limited value, because when you place them in a higher tier tank, and they might only have a hundred battles left in them. That would change the dynamic on how things are developed as time goes on.

 

My thought is that the skills level requirements be dropped a little bit so you can progress a little faster (maybe a 1.5x multiplier for each skill level rather than 2x), but then cap the crew member at a certain number of matches before they retire. When they retire, you could recruit a new member and the retiring member can "mentor" them so they aren't complete greenhorns, but frankly, if there are that many matches under a crew's belt, the player will probably have the skills to train up new members very fast anyway.

 

I know some people may think this is a solution searching for a problem, but I don't think it is.  The problem isn't that the skilled players aren't enjoying themselves, the problem is that new players are really disadvantaged against a player with 50,000 matches or whatever and 5-skill crews. All the additional things that stack against them is tough to overcome.  That discourages people who try it out, and eventually, it will mean the game will become non-viable.

 

I'm interested in hearing what people think of this concept. Has something like this been discussed before?



_Tsavo_ #2 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:43

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Not a fan.  I like my numerous 5 skill crews, 2 6 skill crews, and one crew working on skill 7.

 

 



Gravtech #3 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:47

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having crews with 5-6 skills is one of the ways that wot rewards long time players. All this would do is punish players for playing often enough to get a lot of crew skills. 

ThePigSheFlies #4 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:48

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View Postmjmdiver, on May 16 2018 - 16:40, said:

 

I'm interested in hearing what people think of this concept. Has something like this been discussed before?

 

literally the only thing that an experienced player has for their loyalty, is their crews (provided they haven't dismissed them).  even "pre-order" special tanks have been re-sold...

 

as for the topic at hand, there isn't anyone that has "maxed out" their crew.  crew skills are not on a straight line increment for ranking up.

 

yes, it's true that many folks have 4, 5, 6 and even 7 perk crew members.  it is important to remember however, that having said crews may infer a modest advantage, it's how the person between the keyboard and the chair actually positions their tank in any given battle that will ultimately prove how often a player wins.



mjmdiver #5 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:50

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Hey Tsavo, I used to be in the BOT clan before it disbanded...

 

I know that the skilled people won't like a proposal like this at all, but really, do you feel you need a 7-skill crew to take advantage of a newer player with a few thousand matches under their belt?

 

I think not, and I would hope that by the time I have 20,000 or more matches, I am good enough that you could put me in almost any tank with a basic crew and once I know how the tank works, I would be able to match up with just about anyone reasonably, and certainly with a new player...



Kenshin2kx #6 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:50

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hmmmmm ... Personally speaking ... if the crew were forced to retire after say 6 skills ... with all the work I put iinto them in time and effort ... I'd likely retire along with them ... this is one instance where I think reality would actually damage the game in terms of player expectations.  I started in 2014 ... and have some respectable crews ... but they took me 4 years to cultivate them.  I can only speak for myself, but if I had to guess ... the idea of retirement would be akin to death for many players I know.  For such an idea to even be remotely acceptable to those with vested interests, there would need to be some kind of equivalent compensation.  

Silversound #7 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:51

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OP. Hear me out on this; Go take a long walk on a short pier.

ThePigSheFlies #8 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:55

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here's another thought.  "forced retirement" of leveled up crews would also decimate the sales of premium tanks, as there would be literally zero reason to buy one if my crews are just going to be summarily executed for playing too much...

 

I think anyone with a pulse knows that wargaming isn't going to jeopardize their cash cow



BattlecryGWJ #9 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:56

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Pretty sure I've only got one crew that's completed its 3rd skill with the vast majority of my crews that are working on their second or 3rd skill (so I don't really have any uber crews that this would affect) and this sounds like a terrible idea.

Waylandie #10 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:56

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How long do you think it takes to train a crew?  I have several crews in the 4-6 skill range already and I only started playing in September of 2016.  

Edited by Waylandie, May 16 2018 - 22:57.


Silversound #11 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:57

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Is this some kind if social justice project?

Ded_man #12 Posted May 16 2018 - 22:58

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OP, you should watch this. 

 

Never start anything with "hear me out." Doesn't mean it would change the fact that an idea is bad, but when you start out with hear me out. You know dang well, it ain't good.



Fractured_Raptor #13 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:01

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If you want people to quit this game then implement that. As much as it takes to get crews up there nobody would be happy about a forced reset, it removes the point of grinding crews.

 



Anublister #14 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:01

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No. Not going to happen also.

First of all I've never seen anyone with 100,000 battles and if there are they deserve whatever skills they've gotten.

Secondly, skills accumulate exponentially (I think, or pretty close), and the best skills are probably the first 3 you assign, with negligible benefits down the line.

Lastly, this is a video game. To suggest these crews need to muster out defeats the whole purpose of the crew grind and removes a key aspect keeping players playing. You get rewarded higher tier tanks and better skilled crewmen.

The next thing you might suggest is to have experience deteriorate over time. That would make it really hard to get to tier 10.

 

The solution is not to "dumb" down the higher skilled players. It's just to balance them per team in pub matches. If you're set up against a bunch of players who have better skills, longer view range, better gun handling and better organisational skills then you will most likely lose. If those better players were mixed then all you'd have to do is measure up against your equal on the other side and best him. This would allow you to compete against your equal at least in a group setting as opposed to just being raw meat for the hoard which is common now.


Edited by Anublister, May 16 2018 - 23:02.


NightmareMk9 #15 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:01

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OP has a very valid point.

In FACT

I also believe that the tanks should "Wear Out" after 1000 games so you need to buy them again.

Including and ESPECIALLY Premium Tanks



Maj_Baker #16 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:05

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this game is about crews, not tanks

_Tsavo_ #17 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:06

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View Postmjmdiver, on May 16 2018 - 16:50, said:

Hey Tsavo, I used to be in the BOT clan before it disbanded...

 

I know that the skilled people won't like a proposal like this at all, but really, do you feel you need a 7-skill crew to take advantage of a newer player with a few thousand matches under their belt?

 

I think not, and I would hope that by the time I have 20,000 or more matches, I am good enough that you could put me in almost any tank with a basic crew and once I know how the tank works, I would be able to match up with just about anyone reasonably, and certainly with a new player...

 

While I can likely do okay-to-good in most tanks with a 100% crew, I am not a fan of ideas that would punish me directly.  Which is what this one would be. 

 

Where I play, my 7 skill crew isn't taking advantage of anyone who doesn't have it coming.



Shibadogdog #18 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:08

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On the other hand I often refrain from getting new tanks when I think about how long it will take to grind out a new crew... You realize every skill you add takes longer then the one before? I have several crews with well over a thousand battles.. I Earned any tiny advantage that gives me!

Kenshin2kx #19 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:20

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View PostNightmareMk9, on May 16 2018 - 12:01, said:

OP has a very valid point.

In FACT

I also believe that the tanks should "Wear Out" after 1000 games so you need to buy them again.

Including and ESPECIALLY Premium Tanks

 

Well consider that the tanks are literally repaired after each destruction ... so, one could say that such care and maintenance should make for abnormally long service life ... particularly for something as robust as a tank.

Altwar #20 Posted May 16 2018 - 23:22

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View PostWaylandie, on May 16 2018 - 13:56, said:

How long do you think it takes to train a crew?  I have several crews in the 4-6 skill range already and I only started playing in September of 2016.  

 

Nice!  I've been playing a lot longer but my play has been spread out amongst all the lines.  I think currently I don't have a single crew into their 5th skill but I've about 5 of them working on it.  Guess it just depends on focused play versus varied.




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