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Hit the Progetto 46 with the nerf bat. Hard...


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Reiko_Nagase #1 Posted May 18 2018 - 07:24

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No this is not a "whine" thread but I do genuinely think this tank is unbalanced and needs a serious hit with the nerf bat. What chance in h*** do other Tier VIII single shot meds of killing this thing in a head to head fight? Absolutely none. If played correctly the Auto reloaders can stay firing indefinitely and don't have to reload the entire clip like auto loaders do which in turn gives you a chance to rush and kill them on their long reload. I don't think all the Italian Auto reloaders are OP but the Progetto 46 definitely is. (Go figure! It's a prem tank!) 

 

For example. I'm in my IS-3 and get rushed by some scrub in a Progetto 46. I put a shot into him but my reload is still 11.2 seconds. He puts 2 shots into me while "circling" me, I shoot him again. He shoots me two more times. Circling in quotation marks because he is really just face hugging me shooting my pike nose without even aiming while penning effortlessly. A Tier VIII med should never just be able to yolo pen an equal tier heavy through the front (And most can't, But the Progetto can!) So he eventually kills me after I put 3 shots into him. Yep a Tier VIII MEDIUM just facehugged a Tier VIII HEAVY and won. That is absolutely retarded. If you are stupid enough to facehug a heavy in a med with no armor you should be punished greatly for it, But in the Progetto it's not a problem man! Facehug all the tier VIII heavies you want! The only ones you won't kill is an Autoloader or Defender, The people that say this tank isn't OP are really funny! 

 

Tell me. What is my T-44 supposed to do against a Progetto? I can shoot him once for 240. I reload in 6.8 secs with my config. He can shoot me two or THREE times for 240 in the time it takes for me to reload once. It's not like my armor matters either. He can go through my turret and hull no issue. And outrun a Progetto? That's absolutely hilarious. He matches my mobility if not surpasses it. 

 

Once again we see another premium tank that clearly outperforms all it's Tier VIII counterparts and further worsens game balance and makes the powercreep issue even worse GG WG.

 

I'll be happy to respond to polite replies.

 

- Reiko



Zippit #2 Posted May 18 2018 - 07:38

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View PostReiko_Nagase, on May 18 2018 - 16:24, said:

 

Tell me. What is my T-44 supposed to do against a Progetto? I can shoot him once for 240. I reload in 6.8 secs with my config. He can shoot me two or THREE times for 240 in the time it takes for me to reload once. 

 

But it doesn't have the same reload time if he shoots all three, if he did, his DPM would go through the floor. "Flawed" argument



Reiko_Nagase #3 Posted May 18 2018 - 07:39

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View PostZippit, on May 18 2018 - 01:38, said:

 

But it doesn't have the same reload time if she shoots all three, if he did, his DPM would go through the floor. "Flawed" argument

 

Most people figure this out pretty quickly and only fire 2 shells at a time. Doing this you can fire with the same reload time nearly indefinitely. Only scrubs play it like an autoloader.

MoovingTarget #4 Posted May 18 2018 - 07:42

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Don't forget the laser accuracy as well. Continue to get sniped by them non-stop in Frontlines too.  They are a scourge.

Reiko_Nagase #5 Posted May 18 2018 - 07:45

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View PostMoovingTarget, on May 18 2018 - 01:42, said:

Don't forget the laser accuracy as well. Continue to get sniped by them non-stop in Frontlines too.  They are a scourge.

 

Yep! Almost forgot! Point three one dispersion. What?! That's even better than my Tier TEN Russian med! Not to mention a certain observation that was recently made that some people claim Italian tanks do the most module damage out of any other class of tank. even TD's.

 

This game is dead.



Swell_Sell #6 Posted May 18 2018 - 07:47

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They're annoying, but so was the Lorraine when it first came out.

 

Those that yolo will soon grow tired of the tank and the 46 will find it's place in the meta. 



Reiko_Nagase #7 Posted May 18 2018 - 07:51

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View PostSwell_Sell, on May 18 2018 - 01:47, said:

They're annoying, but so was the Lorraine when it first came out.

 

Those that yolo will soon grow tired of the tank and the 46 will find it's place in the meta. 

 

Wish my outdated powercreeped tanks would find their place in the meta. What the h*** is the point of the IS-3 when you have the Defender? It's a prem tank that literally defeats the purpose of grinding the line. Just like the Progetto. it's better than the P.44 Pantera in nearly every single aspect.

 

My tanks will never be effective again lol.



BLACKVENOMSTRIKER #8 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:11

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Myself I think it is one of the closest balanced tanks in the game and when you put a skilled player behind the wheel of it they will tear you apart. This tank would be close to the bottom of the list of tanks that needs to be looked at. You just got unlucky and found someone who out played you while in a med.

Reiko_Nagase #9 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:15

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View PostBLACKVENOMSTRIKER, on May 18 2018 - 02:11, said:

Myself I think it is one of the closest balanced tanks in the game and when you put a skilled player behind the wheel of it they will tear you apart. This tank would be close to the bottom of the list of tanks that needs to be looked at. You just got unlucky and found someone who out played you while in a med.

 

Okay but according to this logic the Progetto still comes out on top.

 

Put two equally skilled players in two different tanks.

 

The Progetto 46 and the T-44.

 

Even if both players are equally skilled and have equal terrain and an equal playing field the Progetto is still going to come out on top.

 

Every. Single. Time.



Ded_man #10 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:18

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A T54 mod 1 in a 1 v 1 cover fighting has equal chance at trading with a Progetto forcing it to play like a normal medium.

1 v 1 brawl, someone really needs to be in an advantageous position, like full health against weak prog or help is coming. What starts as a tit-4-tat will turn into a tit-4-tat-4-tit-4-tat-4-tit-4-tat-tat-tat.

 

In FL, yea people will play it more risky because respawn and repair. Doubt many would dare take that chance in pubs unless it’s the end game and the action will result in a significant impact. 

 

Most other autoloaders you may be given a free shot (if they’re feeling generous) in exchange for a massive dump. With the prog if they’re trying at all to play like a typical auto loader, they’re willing to give up quite a bit of their health and risk giving you the upper hand because RNG.

 

 

 


Edited by Ded_man, May 18 2018 - 08:22.


BLACKVENOMSTRIKER #11 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:28

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View PostReiko_Nagase, on May 18 2018 - 08:15, said:

 

Okay but according to this logic the Progetto still comes out on top.

 

Put two equally skilled players in two different tanks.

 

The Progetto 46 and the T-44.

 

Even if both players are equally skilled and have equal terrain and an equal playing field the Progetto is still going to come out on top.

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

​ have faced off with other players in a T-44 in FL and random some of these players where equal skilled to me others better or worst. When facing someone at my skill level never did it come down to me always winning it was a 50/50 cause of RNG, me making a mistake or them making a mistake. You are trying to make it look like it needs a nerf but you are using a strawman argument to try to make your case and it comes off more like you are upset that you just got out played.

Reiko_Nagase #12 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:28

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View PostDed_man, on May 18 2018 - 02:18, said:

A T54 mod 1 in a 1 v 1 cover fighting has equal chance at trading with a Progetto forcing it to play like a normal medium.

1 v 1 brawl, someone really needs to be in an advantageous position, like full health or help is coming. What starts as a tit-4-tat will turn into a tit-4-tat-4-tit-4-tat-4-tit-4-tat-tat-tat.

 

In FL, yea people will play it more risky because respawn and repair. Doubt many would dare take that chance in pubs unless it’s the end game and the action will result in a significant impact. 

 

Most other autoloaders you may be given a free shot (if they’re feeling generous) in exchange for a massive dump. With the prog if they’re trying at all to play like a typical auto loader, they’re willing to give up quite a bit of their health and risk giving you the upper hand because RNG.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I agree. The issue is people know this tank is not an Autoloader and like I said when played correctly it's better than any other Tier VIII med imo. The T-54 mod 1 can take it on head on but that's about the only other Tier VIII med that can. 

 

Prog's can put two shots into you and back off before you even know what hit you. Rinse and repeat. That's how a typical med plays, "Flank and spank" With a typical single shot med that's quite balanced but with the ability to fire two shots (Or even 3 if your feeling lucky) for your one shot even against other meds I find quite broken. That on top of the mobility to get the hell out of dodge if needed makes this tank really borderline broken. Sure it isn't Swedish TD broken but it's agitating. 

 

Also for example. What is the point of my Tier X Russian meds now? The new Italian tanks took that role leaving my Tier X meds pretty pointless. The only time my X would come out on top is in a constant fire situation with targets to farm, But in Tier X we all know that doesn't happen because everyone plays ultra conservative and camps.

 

Just my 2 cents.



Reiko_Nagase #13 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:30

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View PostBLACKVENOMSTRIKER, on May 18 2018 - 02:28, said:

 

​ have faced off with other players in a T-44 in FL and random some of these players where equal skilled to me others better or worst. When facing someone at my skill level never did it come down to me always winning it was a 50/50 cause of RNG, me making a mistake or them making a mistake. You are trying to make it look like it needs a nerf but you are using a strawman argument to try to make your case and it comes off more like you are upset that you just got out played.

 

Facehugging someone is not outplaying them in the slightest. It's the easiest simplest and most effective tactic you can use and 90% of the time the superior tank wins. Not the superior player 

BLACKVENOMSTRIKER #14 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:35

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View PostReiko_Nagase, on May 18 2018 - 08:30, said:

 

Facehugging someone is not outplaying them in the slightest. It's the easiest simplest and most effective tactic you can use and 90% of the time the superior tank wins. Not the superior player 

 

​See strawman. No matter what the tank is you put a skilled player behind the wheel with the knowing the strength and weakness of the tank they are facing and knowing the strength and weakness of their tank that player will win more times then the player who relies on just their tank.

Reiko_Nagase #15 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:37

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View PostBLACKVENOMSTRIKER, on May 18 2018 - 02:35, said:

 

​See strawman. No matter what the tank is you put a skilled player behind the wheel with the knowing the strength and weakness of the tank they are facing and knowing the strength and weakness of their tank that player will win more times then the player who relies on just their tank.

 

Except in what world should a MEDIUM tank be superior to a HEAVY tank when it comes to facehugging? It shouldn't. Ever.

_Gungrave_ #16 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:42

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View PostReiko_Nagase, on May 18 2018 - 07:39, said:

 

Most people figure this out pretty quickly and only fire 2 shells at a time. Doing this you can fire with the same reload time nearly indefinitely. Only scrubs play it like an autoloader.

 

Actually most experienced prog players will keep firing the first shell getting you down to a two shot then they dump the remaining two rounds. Its the tactic I used while playing the Pantera and Progetto in Frontline because the first round reload is roughly the same as the T44's reload speed.

Edited by _Gungrave_, May 18 2018 - 08:44.


Reiko_Nagase #17 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:48

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View Post_Gungrave_, on May 18 2018 - 02:42, said:

 

Actually most experienced prog players will keep firing the first shell getting you down to a two shot then they dump the remaining two rounds. Its the tactic I used while playing the Pantera and Progetto in Frontline because the first round reload is roughly the same as the T44's reload speed.

 

That tactic is always available. However the ability to put in two shots for every one the enemy puts in in a brawling/peek situation is just unbalanced if you ask me.

_Gungrave_ #18 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:51

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View PostReiko_Nagase, on May 18 2018 - 08:48, said:

 

That tactic is always available. However the ability to put in two shots for every one the enemy puts in in a brawling/peek situation is just unbalanced if you ask me.

 

Except you should never use that tactic because a good T44 player will abuse a prog player's stupidity for doing that. If they fire two shots then that T44 has a big advantage because that Prog will spend 9 seconds reloading just that second shell so if the 44 pushes the prog they can out DPM a progetto.



BLACKVENOMSTRIKER #19 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:52

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View PostReiko_Nagase, on May 18 2018 - 08:37, said:

 

Except in what world should a MEDIUM tank be superior to a HEAVY tank when it comes to facehugging? It shouldn't. Ever.

 

Well lets brake it down you said you put 3 shots into him for we'll say 390 each shot that's 1170 damage and he has 1400 hp which left him with 230 hp. He shot you 4 times for 240 so that's 960 but we know he had to shoot you more then this where you have 1500 lets say he shot you 6 times with a couple of high rolls. my guess he was always doing 2 shots while saving the 3rd to keep his reload time up. yep sounds like you got out played cause he understood his tank and yours and by face hugging you he reduced your ability to angle your armor. 

Reiko_Nagase #20 Posted May 18 2018 - 08:57

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View Post_Gungrave_, on May 18 2018 - 02:51, said:

 

Except you should never use that tactic because a good T44 player will abuse a prog player's stupidity for doing that. If they fire two shots then that T44 has a big advantage because that Prog will spend 9 seconds reloading just that second shell so if the 44 pushes the prog they can out DPM a progetto.

 

If said 44 is in the position to push the prog. In a brawling aspect of 1V1 that works fine. In a random battle with enemies around Prog pops out puts two into the T-44 while the T-44 can only fire one in return. Back off reload both shells, Rinse and repeat. However I do get your example as well. The only time a prog will ever suffer is if it has to fight an enemy head on. But given the tanks characteristics it almost never needs to. You can snipe with it, Peek with it and flee with it.




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