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Changes to Vehicles With Preferential Matchmaking + Notes on Trade-in


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Mokoma #601 Posted May 25 2018 - 04:13

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I really don’t see a way for anything but an offer for a cash refund to be adequate here.

Trade-ins won’t work for people who either own literally all the premiums, or who own all the ones they’re interested in.

Full gold refunds (which, hilariously, they haven’t even offered yet) won’t work for a lot of people, since WG hasn’t offered all but a very few of the newer premiums for gold for a while now (which is bad in its own right, but that’s another topic), so gold won’t allow us to buy most of the newer stuff anyways.

And while I get the reticence towards allowing trading up to higher value tanks without a surcharge, it’s time to let that cost go, in order to save themselves the much greater cost of further alienating and driving away good customers. It must have crossed their minds that this would upset people; typical WG incompetence to not have a plan in place to mitigate that displeasure at the time of the news release.

Obviously the pref tanks need a rework, and honestly in the long term, it’ll be for the best in terms of balance. But the process needs to be handled a lot better (it’s sad how many times I’ve had to say that about this company).

I’m just glad I’m not the person in charge of overseeing this rebalance. Talk about a no-win job.

CreightonPatton #602 Posted May 25 2018 - 04:28

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So after all the power creep, now another change?  Does this mean the IS-6 that is a turd against T9 tanks will actually play better?  And you announce this AFTER I bought a Defender?

 

Not that I pay to play/win.  I actually enjoy free-to-play tanks, but I have bought a few I enjoy as well.  I don't find load times into games to be a problem.  I find unbalanced team where you lose 13:1 GAME AFTER GAME to be disheartening.  I find the continuing eliminating of maps to be sad.  I've played WOT for years and generally let some of the complaining slide.  Check my account and see that I PAY YOUR WAGES with premium, gold and tanks.  Then wonder why you continue to make me pay for more (gold does cost money doesn't it?  Or you giving it away for free now?) and find me taking my money elsewhere.

 

Thanks for making the decision easier and easier.  Just when I thought there was some hope in Frontlines and updated graphics/maps.  Was hoping new maps would be forthcoming, not taking a glorious dump on tanks I actually paid real money.  

 

Not to mention I wonder what marketing/business major genius came up with the announcement.  Do they even play video games?  Or majored in accounting and think MS Excel is "fun" and video games are for young kids.



cvshaft #603 Posted May 25 2018 - 04:42

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Uhm... And I was thinking about coming back to this game? ....  :facepalm:

Grand_Admiral_Chris #604 Posted May 25 2018 - 04:42

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I honestly do not think that the Preferential Matchmaking is ruining the game, its the screwed up Matchmaker that's being used now and the continuation of OP tanks being introduced with excessive power creep that are doing it. Just bring in +1-1 matchmaking and that will fix almost all problems and lower all the tier 8's that you are oh so worried about to tier 7.

cvshaft #605 Posted May 25 2018 - 04:45

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View Posthiipanda, on May 21 2018 - 19:04, said:

Maybe there are too many people playing pref mm tanks because fighting tier 10s in normal tier 8 prems is a pain? Corridor meta and buffs to armored tanks at tier 10 is not a good way to make credits in your tier 8s.  You haven't touched the type 5 and took forever to touch the 268v4. This is 1 more reason for me to not play this game.

 

​Sad day buddy. Miss having fun.

Burning_Haggis #606 Posted May 25 2018 - 05:03

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View PostTupinambis, on May 24 2018 - 17:26, said:

 

Alternative theory: Pref-MM T8 tanks are all frigging terrible and need buffs like the KV-5 is getting. 

 

nerfing all the rear, and sides is not a buff.   Or did the WG fans all forget that part. 

 

It will be pennable by a cromwell.     Now you explain how that is a buff... wait, it's not, it's a nerf

 



VonRohr_PanzerJager #607 Posted May 25 2018 - 06:12

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I own several Pref-MM Premiums - rarely play them now as so many, such as the JTiger-88 are hopelessly outclassed by Tier IX & Xs.

 

A bit radical but why not just drop them all by a one Tier from VIII to VII


 

The worst match up would be for them to be bottom of a Tier IX game, the average would be in the middle of Tier VIII game and the best would be the top of a Tier VII game

That way there would be no need for buffing stats, nerfing stats, tweaking stats or any other changes...


 

And BEFORE the ranting flamers start up, dropping them to Tier VII would basically return them to the original concept - Premium Tanks that would not meet Tanks vastly superior to them.


 


 


 


 


 



WhosMans #608 Posted May 25 2018 - 06:37

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So if I understand this correctly you were, at one point, stopping the sales of all preferential tier 8s, and using the preferential feature to sell them, like the FCM 50t and JTig 8,8 for instance. And now you want to get rid of preferential MM entirely? That is a pretty scummy thing to do guys :facepalm:

I enjoy the preferential matchmaking because I don't have to worry about being bum rushed by some moron in a 268V4 or a Type 5 Heavy while driving say, my Type 59, or my T-34-3, or my IS-6/IS-6B, or my KV-5, or my Jtig8,8, or my FCM 50t, or my T26E4. You get where I'm going with this right? I've spent way too much money on this game and at one point I honestly didn't have a problem with it. Now with all these "improvements" you are wanting to push on to the customer/player, you've made the game worse. And buffing the armour isn't going to accomplish anything when you can spam your 330meta rounds from literally every tier 10 gun :trollface: because it's still going to be slower than molasses.

 

I understand that you have implemented a new matchmaking system but have there even been any attempts to adjust that rather than the tanks, kinda seems like you're trying to take the easy way out while shafting a majority of your player base if you ask me :rolleyes:



FalsumNauta #609 Posted May 25 2018 - 07:13

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All data presented below is from www.vbaddict.net from the last 30 days, with tanks with at least 1,000 battles. 

 

Total tanks in battles: about 12,465,220
Total Tier 8 tank appearances: 3,719,187
Total Tier 8 Preferential MM Premium (PMM) tank appearances: 176,185
Total Tier 8 Premium tank appearances: 1,793,644
Total Tier 8 standard tank appearances: 1,749,358
Tier 9 tank appearances: 1,892,439
Tier 10 tank appearances: 1,263,886

 

All together, Tier 8 Preferential Matchmaking (PMM) tanks make up about 1.4% of the total tanks played. Add in the tier 7 PMM tanks, and you're still just shy of 2% of the total tanks played. 

 

In fact, only two PMM tanks at any tier even made the top 100 played tanks, the SuperPershing (#65, 48K battles) and the E25 (#73, 47K battles). The KV-5, Wargaming's apparent problem child, ranks #398 with just over 6K battles played, or about 0.05% of the total. Wargaming's excuse is a complete fabrication. If 1.4% of the tanks played are disrupting the matchmaking, there's a bigger underlying problem with the matchmaking. 

 

I suspect that the problem with matchmaking is that 29% of the tanks that enter a battle are tier 8. Only 15% are tier 9, and only 10% are tier 10. The 3/5/7 matchmaking model fits this perfectly. There are twice as many tier 8 tanks played as there are tier 9 and 10 combined. Tiers 6 and 7 are 14% and 13%, respectively. 

 

The root problem with matchmaking would appear to be economics, both in-game and real-world. Tier 8 premium tanks are the most profitable, and thus, the most often played. There are more tier 8 tank appearances than any other tier, and more than half of these appearances are in premium tanks. Not coincidentally, there are 102 available tanks at tier 8, 50 at tier 9, and 56 at tier 10. Of these 102 tier 8 tanks, 56 are premium tanks. You read that correctly. There are the same number of tier 8 premium tanks as there are tier 10 tanks, and 6 more than there are tier 9 tanks. It's no wonder that there are so many more games played at tier 8. The horrible economics at tiers 9 and 10 force players to use tier 8 premium tanks to remain profitable overall. 

 

Why are there so many tier 8 premiums in-game? Look at all the specials in the premium store. Every week since 1.0 launched, it seems like there's been a different deal on a tier 8 premium. I haven't kept a close enough watch to be sure. The biggest real money makers for WG are tier 8 premiums, because the biggest credit earners for us are tier 8 premiums. 

 

Sorry, Wargaming, but your excuse just doesn't hold water. 

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charbaci #610 Posted May 25 2018 - 07:42

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Not that it matters to wargamming.

 

But this might end up taking my tomato tanks out of the game.  Yes I might be a tomato player but if you were to rate my name on cash spending I would be a unicorn.  Purchasing all of my Preferential Matchmaking Tanks was the reason behind the purchase, for their rarity.  Losing that and having to pay for an “upgrade” I’m out.  It’s wargammings game, they make the decisions. they have the right too.  But I also have mine and what I precise is fair.  I am positive that my future spend of money on a game developer that dose not respect the original purchasing reasons for tanks will be heavily impacted.

 

Respectfully A Unicorn Spender


Edited by charbaci, May 26 2018 - 04:18.


cyxd #611 Posted May 25 2018 - 07:56

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Do not start with tier 8 premium!

 

Do the following, in order:

  • Stop selling tanks with preferential MM. Seriously, why is this still happening?
  • Re-balance the normal tanks with preferential MM, starting with the lowest tier. Buff the Pz1. You won't get a lot of complaining.
  • Re-balance the premium tanks with preferential MM that were given out as unearned gifts; T7, Light Mk VIC, etc. There might be some complaining, but no one paid for these.
  • Fire the genius that signed off on the concept of neutering the premium tanks with preferential MM that your customers gave you cash for.

Those of us that bought premium tanks with preferential MM bought them for a reason. Minor buffs and nerfs to keep things balanced is an acceptable part of the game. But you are now talking about removing a fundamental facet of of my purchases after the fact. Completely unacceptable. Nothing less than a full cash refund will make this work in your favor. Failure to provide a refund will alienate the people that have already proven they are willing to give you money. And I am certain that they will tell their friends...

 

And the suggestion that if we do not like the changes forced upon us, we will be provided with an opportunity to pay more is rotflmao! Are you drunk? Stoned? In what shade of reality did that seem like a good idea? If you give me gold credits in exchange for my premium tanks with preferential MM, it would be meaningless to me, as you do not have enough tanks left for sale that I do not already own.

 

Using tanks with preferential MM as a scapegoat for MM's failure is flawed.

 

Please, give your collective heads a shake and step away from this. No good will come of it.



RumblShack #612 Posted May 25 2018 - 08:20

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Have you guys lost your somewhat scrambled minds?

My KV-5 and Type 59 (two out of a dozen or so Prem tanks I own) were the first premium tanks I bought when I started playing this game 6 or so years ago. The pref MM on them is the very reason I bought these tanks. Now you guys want to go and ruin the KV-5, my KV-5, my first premium ever? Up the gun a bit and ruin it's side scraping abilities by scrapping a bunch of it's armor so some free riding bum in a tier 10 can add notches on his barrel? But hey, if I do not like getting my oldest and most cherished premium (Your first will always be special) ruined, then you guys say, I can buy some more gold with cash (Or is gold gonna be free now) to trade my baby in for some schmuck on treads with newer paint? Is that what you are telling me? Or am I missing some crucial detail here?  :angry:

I know that you guys in the Eastern Europe had your governments spoon feed you guys some unbelievable crap for a long time so you got used to it. Here in the West, it was not even near to the same extent, so we aren't quite so used to it. If you guys believe that we are this gullible, then I wish you the best of luck. Let me know how this turns out for you.

I have spent several hundreds of dollars ... Maybe thousands on this game in the last 6 or so years I have played it. I bought my Pref. MM tanks for that very reason with cash, CASH! Read C-A-S-H!!!! Real money out of my wallet, not gold. And now you want to take away the very reason I bought these tanks for (With REAL $$$) and go against the advertisement (You know, that little promise you made in black and white print) that these tanks, if bought, will never, read N-E-V-E=R, see a tier 10 in random battle. And on TOP of that kick in the nads, you want to add a smack on the head in the form of 'If you don't like it, you can jolly well pony up more REAL money to buy some gold in order to pay us, (On top of the REAL cash you have already paid for these tanks) so you can trade to another tank that might not get humiliated so bad by tier 10s.

By all means WG, take care of the crybabies :arta: who have NEVER spent one dime on your game by screwing your PAYING customers :coin: and then , to add insult to injury, nickle and diming them out of yet more money. Way to go WG.... Run off your paying customers so that you have just the free players left. Yeah, that will keep the lights on. :trollface:

 

I have seen you guys at WG make some bone-headed moves in the past, but this one, this one is the most cabbage-for-brains stunt I have ever seen you guys pull! :facepalm:


Edited by RumblShack, May 25 2018 - 23:33.


TheShortHobbit #613 Posted May 25 2018 - 09:30

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I have a Premium Account - I buy gold every month - I buy premium tanks - in short I pay money to play a free game, it's my choice....

So Wargaming, if I do not agree with with the choices you make for the game, what are my options then ???

Stop paying and stop playing ???

Wargaming what are my options in this matter ???

2K gold exchange fee ... Give me a break



hawkversey #614 Posted May 25 2018 - 10:37

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You touch my JT88 in any way, shape, or form and I'm done with this game. I paid real cash for it the way it is and thats that! I own 7 tier 8 premiums and a slew of others. Paid thousands into this game over 7 years, (started playing in 2011). I can recall how much I even paid for it, $44 and some change 4 to 5 years ago. You change it I want $44 dollars back, (no gold upcharge crap) or I'm gone for good and shame on me for funding WG greed. I'm aware you are a business and this game stays in action as long as a profit is turned, but as someone with a degree in business its clear you are doing this as a step one to a many step plan to make more money, and on people that have already paid. So we are trapped into spending more or walking away feeling burnt. Don't paint premium MM tanks as the bad guys when you know there are dozens of other ways to "fix" MM. I've rarely said anything about changes in the past as the game needs to grow to stay relevant, but this screams of money grab, not game improvement. Tread lightly WG or your cash cow may up and die in the field on you!

Krampus___ #615 Posted May 25 2018 - 11:59

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View PostBurning_Haggis, on May 24 2018 - 22:03, said:

 

nerfing all the rear, and sides is not a buff.   Or did the WG fans all forget that part. 

 

It will be pennable by a cromwell.     Now you explain how that is a buff... wait, it's not, it's a nerf

 

 

It was always pennable by a Cromwell. So what?

Digital_Malamute #616 Posted May 25 2018 - 12:31

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View PostProfessorPanzer, on May 25 2018 - 01:13, said:

All data presented below is from www.vbaddict.net from the last 30 days, with tanks with at least 1,000 battles. 

 

Total tanks in battles: about 12,465,220
Total Tier 8 tank appearances: 3,719,187
Total Tier 8 Preferential MM Premium (PMM) tank appearances: 176,185
Total Tier 8 Premium tank appearances: 1,793,644
Total Tier 8 standard tank appearances: 1,749,358
Tier 9 tank appearances: 1,892,439
Tier 10 tank appearances: 1,263,886

 

All together, Tier 8 Preferential Matchmaking (PMM) tanks make up about 1.4% of the total tanks played. Add in the tier 7 PMM tanks, and you're still just shy of 2% of the total tanks played. 

 

In fact, only two PMM tanks at any tier even made the top 100 played tanks, the SuperPershing (#65, 48K battles) and the E25 (#73, 47K battles). The KV-5, Wargaming's apparent problem child, ranks #398 with just over 6K battles played, or about 0.05% of the total. Wargaming's excuse is a complete fabrication. If 1.4% of the tanks played are disrupting the matchmaking, there's a bigger underlying problem with the matchmaking. 

 

I suspect that the problem with matchmaking is that 29% of the tanks that enter a battle are tier 8. Only 15% are tier 9, and only 10% are tier 10. The 3/5/7 matchmaking model fits this perfectly. There are twice as many tier 8 tanks played as there are tier 9 and 10 combined. Tiers 6 and 7 are 14% and 13%, respectively. 

 

The root problem with matchmaking would appear to be economics, both in-game and real-world. Tier 8 premium tanks are the most profitable, and thus, the most often played. There are more tier 8 tank appearances than any other tier, and more than half of these appearances are in premium tanks. Not coincidentally, there are 102 available tanks at tier 8, 50 at tier 9, and 56 at tier 10. Of these 102 tier 8 tanks, 56 are premium tanks. You read that correctly. There are the same number of tier 8 premium tanks as there are tier 10 tanks, and 6 more than there are tier 9 tanks. It's no wonder that there are so many more games played at tier 8. The horrible economics at tiers 9 and 10 force players to use tier 8 premium tanks to remain profitable overall. 

 

Why are there so many tier 8 premiums in-game? Look at all the specials in the premium store. Every week since 1.0 launched, it seems like there's been a different deal on a tier 8 premium. I haven't kept a close enough watch to be sure. The biggest real money makers for WG are tier 8 premiums, because the biggest credit earners for us are tier 8 premiums. 

 

Sorry, Wargaming, but your excuse just doesn't hold water. 

 

This post wins Best Post 2018.

 



Corpral_punishment #617 Posted May 25 2018 - 13:19

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Super short post,.  I will never spend a dime on this game if it goes into effect.

MartysTank #618 Posted May 25 2018 - 13:36

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Its not the tanks fault its the match maker always wanting +2 1st then +1 and so on, switch that and maybe the balance/mm would be better. Go mm tries to find same tier 1st then +1 and finally +2 if you cant get matched in a certain time. As for pref tanks they could all use a major gun buff but keep them pref.

raggstukov #619 Posted May 25 2018 - 14:47

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WG ... i am going to quote from the original post: " ... , while we also want to maintain the same character they have now. ". If you nerf so bad the rear and the side of the armor, then how this machine is going to maintain the same character, have you seen a KV-5 been played in reverse mode and bouncing shell after shell?? this is part of the gameplay of this tank and it's fun!! to watch and play even if you are the one that can´t penetrate the tank With the listed changes this is no longer possible. Sometimes is just for the fun because that is not the best way to make credits.

And if this is true:

View PostProfessorPanzer, on May 25 2018 - 06:13, said:

All data presented below is from www.vbaddict.net from the last 30 days, with tanks with at least 1,000 battles. 

 

Total tanks in battles: about 12,465,220
Total Tier 8 tank appearances: 3,719,187
Total Tier 8 Preferential MM Premium (PMM) tank appearances: 176,185
Total Tier 8 Premium tank appearances: 1,793,644
Total Tier 8 standard tank appearances: 1,749,358
Tier 9 tank appearances: 1,892,439
Tier 10 tank appearances: 1,263,886

 

All together, Tier 8 Preferential Matchmaking (PMM) tanks make up about 1.4% of the total tanks played. Add in the tier 7 PMM tanks, and you're still just shy of 2% of the total tanks played. 

 

In fact, only two PMM tanks at any tier even made the top 100 played tanks, the SuperPershing (#65, 48K battles) and the E25 (#73, 47K battles). The KV-5, Wargaming's apparent problem child, ranks #398 with just over 6K battles played, or about 0.05% of the total. Wargaming's excuse is a complete fabrication. If 1.4% of the tanks played are disrupting the matchmaking, there's a bigger underlying problem with the matchmaking. 

 

I suspect that the problem with matchmaking is that 29% of the tanks that enter a battle are tier 8. Only 15% are tier 9, and only 10% are tier 10. The 3/5/7 matchmaking model fits this perfectly. There are twice as many tier 8 tanks played as there are tier 9 and 10 combined. Tiers 6 and 7 are 14% and 13%, respectively. 

 

The root problem with matchmaking would appear to be economics, both in-game and real-world. Tier 8 premium tanks are the most profitable, and thus, the most often played. There are more tier 8 tank appearances than any other tier, and more than half of these appearances are in premium tanks. Not coincidentally, there are 102 available tanks at tier 8, 50 at tier 9, and 56 at tier 10. Of these 102 tier 8 tanks, 56 are premium tanks. You read that correctly. There are the same number of tier 8 premium tanks as there are tier 10 tanks, and 6 more than there are tier 9 tanks. It's no wonder that there are so many more games played at tier 8. The horrible economics at tiers 9 and 10 force players to use tier 8 premium tanks to remain profitable overall. 

 

Why are there so many tier 8 premiums in-game? Look at all the specials in the premium store. Every week since 1.0 launched, it seems like there's been a different deal on a tier 8 premium. I haven't kept a close enough watch to be sure. The biggest real money makers for WG are tier 8 premiums, because the biggest credit earners for us are tier 8 premiums. 

 

Sorry, Wargaming, but your excuse just doesn't hold water. 


Then your motivation is just not justify, why don't you show us the data that you have that point's that PMM tanks is broken?? I mean transparency and maybe we can understand the reason.

Now moving forward and i am concerned with you are not going to give back a FULL refund of the price of the vehicle?? REALLY?? we as a community bought the tank with specific characteristics and that is what we wanted, and you want to change the tank now that´s is not our fault... why we don´t get full refund? at least full gold value or equivalent of the gold that we payed in real money. Think the decision you are going to take is going to be a statement to your base player community and your future income.



smoke_E_bones #620 Posted May 25 2018 - 14:53

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To be honest WG i really don't care if a bunch of Muppet's (Who stumbled there way to Tier X running personal reserves) have to wait a little longer in the cue to get into a game under the "lets improve statistically poor players gaming experience when they pull their tier X tank out of the garage Match making system"... I mean 3 -5-7 MM template...   I purchased pref MM tanks because they improve "my" gaming experience and prevent me from having to watch those 3-5-7 Muppet's get completely steam rolled by the other team leaving me and a handful of 8's to try an take on the OP Obj 268-Version 4 and Obj 430U that slaughtered the three crap tier X's the MM saddled my team with. Leave the tanks I paid for alone and let the "should be playing at tier 6 Muppet's" deal with 20 more seconds in the cue.      




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