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I have been mostly gone for a couple of years. Can someone explain 3/5/7 matchmaking?


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AltWeiss #1 Posted May 24 2018 - 19:31

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My search/google skills have failed me.

 

I keep seeing people mentioning a change to matchmaking called 3/5/7 and they never explain what changed.

 

 



TwixOps #2 Posted May 24 2018 - 19:37

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WG revamped MM about 6 months ago to add three templates for team composition.  They are 3/5/7, 10/5 and 15.  The numbers refer to how many tanks of each tier are on each team.  For example in 3/5/7, you would have three top tier, 5 middle tier, and 7 bottom tier.  

The intention of this is to get rid of situations where there would be one tier 8 tank going up against fourteen T10s that he can't damage.  The end result is that players are bottom tier more often (statistically 40% of the time,) but they can do more while bottom tier.  Whether this is a good or bad change is hotly debated in the forums.  



Strike_Witch_Tomoko #3 Posted May 24 2018 - 19:41

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View PostTwixOps, on May 24 2018 - 11:37, said:

WG revamped MM about 6 months ago to add three templates for team composition.  They are 3/5/7, 10/5 and 15.  The numbers refer to how many tanks of each tier are on each team.  For example in 3/5/7, you would have three top tier, 5 middle tier, and 7 bottom tier.  

The intention of this is to get rid of situations where there would be one tier 8 tank going up against fourteen T10s that he can't damage.  The end result is that players are bottom tier more often (statistically 40% of the time,) but they can do more while bottom tier.  Whether this is a good or bad change is hotly debated in the forums.  

 

^

 

but it also depends what tier you play.

 

if you play a tier like tier 8,  well tier 11 and 12 don't exist,  so tier 10s will be top 100% of the time, meaning tier 8 ends up bottom tier ALOT more than normal (think its like 80% unless u got a prem tank in que)

 



AltWeiss #4 Posted May 24 2018 - 19:45

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Ok, thanks to both of you.

 

3/5/7 does seem like it would hurt tier 8s. Since I am recently returned to WoT I am going to be tooling around in lower tiers for a while so....maybe I'll dodge that bullet.



Da_Craw #5 Posted May 24 2018 - 19:50

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3/5/7 also known as the single most hated change to anything in the history of mankind based on the forums.  There are 3 top tier tanks in a match, 5 mid-tier and 7 bottom tier.  In theory, this would make you top tier in about one out of every 5 games, bottom tier in about half and mid tier in about 1 of 3.  You would still see roughly the same number of tanks that were -2, -1, even, +1, +2 from you over the course of 15 battles.  You never see more than 3 tanks in a battle that are +2 tiers from you.  It sounds great in theory.

 

In practice, it SUCKS.  The distribution of tanks on the NA server is such that you end up being bottom not top tier 90% of the time in Tier 4-8 tanks because there are more tanks at each successive tier.  While it DOES limit the number of +2 tanks you face in a given battle, it skews the overall tank level you see much higher.  Because out of 10 games, you were top tier once, you saw 7 -2 tanks.  You were mid tier twice and bottom tier 7 times.  That's 19 -1 tier tanks, 62 same tier tanks, 41+1 tier tanks and 21 +2 tier tanks.  That is a weighted average of .3 over your tier. In your Tier 8 tank, you are going to face an average tank level of 8.3. 

 

The other unforeseen consequence of the 3-5-7 MM is that if your top tier tankers suck, you are really in an uphill battle.  I personally did not find the system that objectionable...until I got a dose of Frontline and saw what an all T8 battle was like on a routine basis.     


Edited by Da_Craw, May 24 2018 - 19:52.


liamcraig1245 #6 Posted May 24 2018 - 19:53

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Essentially the mm system means that unless you play tier 9 or 10 you will be bottom tier over 75% of the time and massacre your stats and credit earning potential.

Da_Vinci #7 Posted May 24 2018 - 20:01

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If you only play tier 10s, there's no 3/5/7 problem. You'll always be top tier.

Playing tier 8s will be a struggle.



Pipinghot #8 Posted May 24 2018 - 20:04

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View PostStrike_Witch_Tomoko, on May 24 2018 - 13:41, said:

well tier 11 and 12 don't exist

That's false. Tier 11 & 12 do still exist, they just don't have labels anymore. There are plenty of battles that are all Tier X tanks and those battles are, by default, Tier 12 battles even if that label no longer exists. Likewise, there are still 5/10 battles with only tier IX and X tanks in them and those battles are, by default, Tier 11 battles even though they're not officially labeled.

 

Anyone who has played Tier X tanks since the change to 3/5/7 can tell you that Tier 11 & 12 still exist, even though the chart doesn't define them as separate tiers.



Pipinghot #9 Posted May 24 2018 - 20:12

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View PostAltWeiss, on May 24 2018 - 13:45, said:

Ok, thanks to both of you.

 

3/5/7 does seem like it would hurt tier 8s. Since I am recently returned to WoT I am going to be tooling around in lower tiers for a while so....maybe I'll dodge that bullet.

It's true that the 3/5/7 system is a problem for Tier VI and VIII tanks. I can't find it at the moment but a while back someone did a pretty good statistical analysis of the average tier opponents that people face under the 3/5/7 compared to the old system, so if you spend most of your time playing Tier VI and VIII tanks you should, quite honestly, expect the game to be somewhat harder, and obviously this stinks if you're working on a Tier VI or Tier VIII tank. I think everyone, whether they like to complain a lot or like to keep a positive attitude, all agree that we want to see WG figure out how to solve this problem.

 

But if you're playing a mixture of tiers then the difficulty will average out for you and it won't be a problem overall as long as you don't make it a problem in your head. People used to complain that when they were bottom tier they couldn't do enough, so WG changed it to 3/5/7 to give bottom tier tanks many more opportunities, but the cost of that change is being bottom tier more often. You just have to be mentally prepared to approach the game expecting that you'll be bottom tier more often, but also that there's a lot more you can do as bottom tier.

 

Also, if you platoon a lot then you should expect that you'll almost never see top tier. It should be obvious that with only 3 top tier tanks per team there's not a big chance that a platoon will get those spot.



ethics_gradient #10 Posted May 24 2018 - 20:16

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The good aspect of 3-5-7 tiering is that no matter what tier you're playing, you will have something to shoot at.  So the days where you were one of the three Tier VIII tanks in a Tier X battle are gone.  The bad news is that as a practical matter, with every 3-5-7 battle that takes six Tier X tanks off the queue, fourteen Tier VIII tanks are needed to fill the entire table.  So this greatly increases the number of battles where there are only six Tier X tanks.  The few remaining IX's that are not sucked into the Tier X 3-5-7 battles are then the top tier in their own 3-5-7 battles, which sucks another ten TIer VIII tanks.  The very, very few remaining TIer VIII tanks get the rarely seen but rumored to exist games where they are top tier.

 

TLDR:  DON"T PLAY TIER VIII (except in frontline).



Springfield_Fats #11 Posted Jun 16 2018 - 08:26

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Here's an example of it working how they intended it. Not a single kill on my team.

 






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