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Over 1 Year Later, 3-5-7 MM Is A Failure

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_Gungrave_ #21 Posted May 27 2018 - 16:35

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View Postdunniteowl, on May 27 2018 - 15:54, said:

 

Not true and you know it.  Penetration matters.  If it didn't, there wouldn't be a mechanic for it.

 

So, now what?

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF

 

Debate it all you want but the fact remains that HE has never relied on its ability to pen when it comes to arty. Only time HE pen matters is when you're shooting soft targets and even then I still see arty penning soft tanks. If you want an example check out the type 4/5 with the 15cm because that has higher pen than arty and still rolls for the same general amount of damage with just normal HE.

 

I think you need to get out more and stop playing arty so much.



Liberty75 #22 Posted May 27 2018 - 22:33

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View Postdunniteowl, on May 27 2018 - 09:34, said:

Separately:

 

I liked the old MM.  I didn't mind the way it worked or how unbalanced it was.  It was crazy and you really never knew what might occur.  Now, to be fair, I don't have a problem with ONLY +/-2 MM and tiers 1-3 seeing only +/-1.  That's fine, I guess, but it takes the variety of what might occur RIGHT OUT.  In some (many) ways, that may be a good thing.  I just liked how insane the MM was back then, because sometimes it was just amazingly frustrating -- and then, somehow, your team would win something you thought unwinnable on it's face, six heavy, four tank destroyers, two lights a medium and two arty -- what? -- that kind of insane, being matched against something like two heavy, six medium, three tank destroyers a two lights and two arty.

 

That's the sort of stuff that made, in my view, the matchmaking awesome.  You couldn't count on meeting a balanced by unit team and if you did, it was usually wildly crazy in the distribution of skill anyway.  Literally anything could happen.

 

That was its appeal to me.

 

 

I think balancing for tiers to keep it more even is probably a good idea, even though I liked the old MM.  I would be okay with some set of balancing algorithms, like 3/5/7, then also, say, 5/5/5, 4/6/5, 7/8,  2/4/9 might even be fun.  Maybe have them set to 'rotate' every forty minutes or thirty minutes or so, in order that all the algorithms get used, maintaining a semblance of greater variety in matching and battle types without tossing out the entire tiering concept that makes this game what it is in terms of challenge.

 

I don't mind it the way it is, though I have to admit, I miss the old MM in it's entirety.  I have found nothing in the new MM that makes me go, "Well, gosh darn it, I think this New MM is the Bee's Knees!"  And you can quote me on that.  It's okay.  I do know that I am more often now bottom tier than I was before, though I don't really mind that usually.  Felt pretty much like that when I played the Leopard or Chaffee and saw tier tier VIIIs regularly.  You get used to it.

 

 

GL, HF & HSYBF

 

I'm right there with you.

 

After a lot of thought about this, I'm convinced that the best and easiest solution is to revert back to the old MM in the general way that it created teams (in other words, no strict templates), BUT also use balancing factors, like we have currently, to make sure each team has the same amount of tanks per tier and also each team has close to the same (within 1) amount of each tank type per team (similar amount of heavies, mediums, etc.).

 

In other words, bring back the previous version of the MM to give us back our rich variety in matches and even distribution of top, middle, and bottom tier games, and then tweak it so it balances the teams better.



RC_1140 #23 Posted May 27 2018 - 23:23

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View PostSenaKashiwazaki, on May 26 2018 - 17:58, said:

I feel like i'm the only one who likes 3/5/7 MM..... :( 

 

I also like it. 

LpBronco #24 Posted May 27 2018 - 23:51

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View PostLiberty75, on May 27 2018 - 16:33, said:

 

I'm right there with you.

 

After a lot of thought about this, I'm convinced that the best and easiest solution is to revert back to the old MM in the general way that it created teams (in other words, no strict templates), BUT also use balancing factors, like we have currently, to make sure each team has the same amount of tanks per tier and also each team has close to the same (within 1) amount of each tank type per team (similar amount of heavies, mediums, etc.).

 

In other words, bring back the previous version of the MM to give us back our rich variety in matches and even distribution of top, middle, and bottom tier games, and then tweak it so it balances the teams better.

 

...which is all the players ever asked for...

Liberty75 #25 Posted May 28 2018 - 00:42

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View PostLpBronco, on May 27 2018 - 17:51, said:

View PostLiberty75, on May 27 2018 - 16:33, said:

I'm right there with you.

 

After a lot of thought about this, I'm convinced that the best and easiest solution is to revert back to the old MM in the general way that it created teams (in other words, no strict templates), BUT also use balancing factors, like we have currently, to make sure each team has the same amount of tanks per tier and also each team has close to the same (within 1) amount of each tank type per team (similar amount of heavies, mediums, etc.).

 

In other words, bring back the previous version of the MM to give us back our rich variety in matches and even distribution of top, middle, and bottom tier games, and then tweak it so it balances the teams better.

 

...which is all the players ever asked for...

 

:great:

 

Now we just need to overcome WG marketing and general player apathy to enlighten the player base. Should be easy...  :)


Edited by Liberty75, Jun 03 2018 - 04:48.


Liberty75 #26 Posted Jun 03 2018 - 04:51

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This MM is a failure. Pull it already WG. Return the old MM, but include the current balancing features from the current system in it.

 

 



Unsacred #27 Posted Jun 03 2018 - 15:50

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View PostLiberty75, on May 26 2018 - 20:22, said:

Here is some feedback for you WG.

 

About 13 months have gone by since the 3/5/7 Match Maker was introduced with great fanfare and looking back now, it hasn't made matches better and it has actually made them worse. It has made the game overly repetitive with the same three templates, over and over. It decimated tier 8 tanks (and the other middle tiers as well). And now you are claiming preferential tanks are broken, which is a lie (like the 3/5/7 MM being good), OR they are broken and it shows your incompetence in making this MM change in the first place without thinking it through.

 

Just admit you screwed up with the MM change Wargaming and revert back to the previous system and tweak that one to make more balanced teams (its only flaw).

Wait you mean wargaming did something wrong with matchmaking *shocked* 

This is a sarcastic response I know sarcasm is lost on most of the people that post here



Liberty75 #28 Posted Jun 03 2018 - 17:43

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View PostUnsacred, on Jun 03 2018 - 09:50, said:

Wait you mean wargaming did something wrong with matchmaking *shocked* 

This is a sarcastic response I know sarcasm is lost on most of the people that post here

 

Fear not. Some of us still understand sarcasm, even on the forums. :)

Luckyforonce #29 Posted Jun 03 2018 - 18:29

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Perfect matchmaking would be that you never face any tank outside of the tier tank you're playing, seriously, that would be the most even and fair this game could ever be.  I no longer believe that the player base is so small that we can't have it, nor do I believe that we'd have to wait a crazy amount of time to enter a game and furthermore, I would bet this game would be even more popular than it is right now if it had such matchmaking, less people quitting out of utter frustration.  I've only been playing this game since November of last year and I've already spent a month and half period where I was too pissed off to play.  I got completely sick of the middle tiers being stat fodder for higher tiers, sick of rolling out and suffering one defeat after another after another after another - who wants to play a game like that, where the hell is the fun? 

Edited by Luckyforonce, Jun 03 2018 - 18:30.


JohnnyFargo #30 Posted Jun 03 2018 - 21:42

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Miss the ole occasional battle in WZ-120 where is was the only tier 9 tank. I agree that the new mm is stale and it has destroyed tier 8 tanks which is where they make their money. Silly folks. Tier 9 is the best mm tier to play for me with the new mm.

Liberty75 #31 Posted Jun 04 2018 - 00:00

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View PostLuckyforonce, on Jun 03 2018 - 12:29, said:

Perfect matchmaking would be that you never face any tank outside of the tier tank you're playing, seriously, that would be the most even and fair this game could ever be.  I no longer believe that the player base is so small that we can't have it, nor do I believe that we'd have to wait a crazy amount of time to enter a game and furthermore, I would bet this game would be even more popular than it is right now if it had such matchmaking, less people quitting out of utter frustration.  I've only been playing this game since November of last year and I've already spent a month and half period where I was too pissed off to play.  I got completely sick of the middle tiers being stat fodder for higher tiers, sick of rolling out and suffering one defeat after another after another after another - who wants to play a game like that, where the hell is the fun? 

 

I understand your frustration. I have a friend (new player too) that quit last summer because it was a frustrating experience grinding through the middle tiers. The solution isn't same tier matches though. That would make for a boring system in the long run. Even +1/-1 would not be as good as +2/-2 for the experience players would get out of the game.

 

I think players today are shell-shocked from being on the bottom of the 3/5/7 system for so long now and desperately they think same tier or +1/-1 is the answer. We need to remember life before the 9.18 Update (April 2017). It wasn't perfect, but it was better than this current mess. Getting moved around from top, to middle, to bottom tier rather evenly in the previous MM was a fun experience. All three of those situations challenged players in different ways. It helped keep the game fresh and exciting as your role was constantly being altered match to match. Mastering all three roles was a real achievement and greatly enhanced the game experience. Currently we hit with the bottom role over and over and even when we are not, the team makeup is so predictable that all excitement in the process is gone.

 

We need to advocate for the previous version of the match maker, with the current team balancing mechanisms included in it.



cthulhu_hunter #32 Posted Jun 04 2018 - 19:39

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View PostLiberty75, on May 27 2018 - 01:22, said:

Here is some feedback for you WG.

 

About 13 months have gone by since the 3/5/7 Match Maker was introduced with great fanfare and looking back now, it hasn't made matches better and it has actually made them worse. It has made the game overly repetitive with the same three templates, over and over. It decimated tier 8 tanks (and the other middle tiers as well). And now you are claiming preferential tanks are broken, which is a lie (like the 3/5/7 MM being good), OR they are broken and it shows your incompetence in making this MM change in the first place without thinking it through.

 

Just admit you screwed up with the MM change Wargaming and revert back to the previous system and tweak that one to make more balanced teams (its only flaw).

 

Nailed it. Thank you. 

LpBronco #33 Posted Jun 04 2018 - 21:08

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They don't have to admit to anything...

 

...just claim victory and make the change.



Liberty75 #34 Posted Jun 07 2018 - 02:30

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View Postcthulhu_hunter, on Jun 04 2018 - 13:39, said:

Nailed it. Thank you. 

 

You're welcome! :honoring:

robtest #35 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 18:24

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I too came back after a year or so... Bought a month of premium... mm is still programmed by the mathless... maybe next year they will hire someone with math skills enough to figure it out... Maybe I will be back then... smdh...

FearTheBadger #36 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 17:41

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there are to many one side games. your average XP, damage and WN8 go up but ur win ratio and PR goes down.

Liberty75 #37 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 19:52

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View PostFearTheBadger, on Jun 13 2018 - 11:41, said:

there are to many one side games. your average XP, damage and WN8 go up but ur win ratio and PR goes down.

 

I don't know if WG can ever effectively rid of us lopsided matches without ruining other aspects of the game, so it might be something that we just need to live and deal with.

 

I WOULD like to have more variety in my matches, like in the old MM. 3 top tier tanks in the 3/5/7 format allows those three individual teammates on each team to dominate the outcome of the match all too often. I'd prefer to have a few more top tiers to help spread out the skill level up there and even up the matches more in skill level than we have now. The old MM had about an average of 4.59 top tier tanks per match when players were bottom tier and we had about 30% bottom tier matches. That was more favorable and fun for players than watching the 3 top tiers do their thing and hope that they are evenly matched or better for your team like the MM now.



VooDooKobra #38 Posted Jun 14 2018 - 06:07

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View PostLiberty75, on Jun 03 2018 - 16:00, said:

 

I understand your frustration. I have a friend (new player too) that quit last summer because it was a frustrating experience grinding through the middle tiers. The solution isn't same tier matches though. That would make for a boring system in the long run. Even +1/-1 would not be as good as +2/-2 for the experience players would get out of the game.

 

I think players today are shell-shocked from being on the bottom of the 3/5/7 system for so long now and desperately they think same tier or +1/-1 is the answer. We need to remember life before the 9.18 Update (April 2017). It wasn't perfect, but it was better than this current mess. Getting moved around from top, to middle, to bottom tier rather evenly in the previous MM was a fun experience. All three of those situations challenged players in different ways. It helped keep the game fresh and exciting as your role was constantly being altered match to match. Mastering all three roles was a real achievement and greatly enhanced the game experience. Currently we hit with the bottom role over and over and even when we are not, the team makeup is so predictable that all excitement in the process is gone.

 

We need to advocate for the previous version of the match maker, with the current team balancing mechanisms included in it.

 

 yes variance is nice but if you read the forums the players are not interested in that.  they want nice and fair and balanced where everyone has an equal chance of winning and every game is a 1 kill nail-biter.

 

ok serious time, with all due respect, going from bottom heavy that isnt working to top heavy that wasnt working is a step backwards.  in fact no matter what they do someone will find a reason to complain.  yes i know in the old MM a person wasnt bottom often enough to where it should matter but those people were still vocal enough to get us the wonderful MM we have today



Liberty75 #39 Posted Jun 14 2018 - 11:26

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Jun 14 2018 - 00:07, said:

...yes i know in the old MM a person wasnt bottom often enough to where it should matter but those people were still vocal enough to get us the wonderful MM we have today

 

The difference is that those complaints were largely one person getting stuck as bottom tier a great number of times one night, and they would vent on the forums, then get roasted to get "gud" or something like that. NOW, the system is so bad, you have a sustained effort of players that are opposed to the system and it isn't generally after one bad night. It is after months and months of experience in this frustrating and often dull system.

 

The worst part is that after analyzing the numbers, the current MM is a worst system and WG seems to have make a few decisions over the past 18 months that have hurt gameplay to squeeze out a few more Dollars, Euros, Rubles, etc. (including this bad MM).



LpBronco #40 Posted Jun 14 2018 - 11:43

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Implying that the changes were intended to "eke out a few rubles" fails miserably to include a brave attempt from WG to mollify the players and try to address their concerns.  The new matchmaking doesn't help because we're playing less under the new system which would have an affect on the bottom line. I know I'm playing less, especially randoms, and as a consequence spending less as a result.





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