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Time of Death, May 27th 2018, 9:30pm Pacific Time...


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_Steel_Casket_ #41 Posted May 28 2018 - 19:33

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The NA side is losing players at a steady pace. This game will continue though as they (WG) panders to the RU and AU servers.

Pongo #42 Posted May 28 2018 - 19:41

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Everyone was playing tier 8s for some strange reason. I played to 10 pacific and it was still 16k on line.

Apache1990 #43 Posted May 28 2018 - 19:49

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View PostSoTrue, on May 28 2018 - 01:05, said:

So I'm playing wot last night (see date above), it's MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND on a SATURDAY NIGHT, and there are only about 11k people on line in NA - but that's not why the game is dead.  I was running my E25, you know before they muss it up by taking away the preff mm.  While getting into a tier 7 (or 8) battle usually took a whopping 0-5 seconds (yeah, the preff mm was really slowing the que times down), I did die real early one battle and bounced down to my PzB2 (you know before they muss it up by taking away the preff mm).  After waiting 2+ minutes for a battle to start, I gave up.  My E25 came out of battle and I went back to tier 7.

-

I'm going to say this one more time for clarity...  THE QUE TIME FOR A TIER 4 BATTLE ON A HOLIDAY SATURDAY NIGHT WAS OVER 2 MINUTES....  I look at it this way, the game is not stone cold six feet under dead.  It's more like we've been shot in the head and the body is falling in slow motion to the ground.  There's still that bit o' life in the body while we fall, and I imagine the bit o' life will be there for the first bounce or two off the floor.  But this game is dead.

 

The PZB2 is one of the most limited MM tanks in the entire game, because it's not allowed to see anything higher tier than itself.  Since new players have MM protection from veterans (at least while MM isn't being impatient), you sit in queue forever, because other veteran players grinding tanks tend to just free XP past the low tiers that you could match against.

Shortcult #44 Posted May 28 2018 - 19:59

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View PostSoTrue, on May 27 2018 - 22:05, said:

I'm gonna go ahead and call it, time of death is May 27th 2018, 9:30pm Pacific Time.

-

So I'm playing wot last night (see date above), it's MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND on a SATURDAY NIGHT, and there are only about 11k people on line in NA - but that's not why the game is dead.  I was running my E25, you know before they muss it up by taking away the preff mm.  While getting into a tier 7 (or 8) battle usually took a whopping 0-5 seconds (yeah, the preff mm was really slowing the que times down), I did die real early one battle and bounced down to my PzB2 (you know before they muss it up by taking away the preff mm).  After waiting 2+ minutes for a battle to start, I gave up.  My E25 came out of battle and I went back to tier 7.

-

I'm going to say this one more time for clarity...  THE QUE TIME FOR A TIER 4 BATTLE ON A HOLIDAY SATURDAY NIGHT WAS OVER 2 MINUTES....  I look at it this way, the game is not stone cold six feet under dead.  It's more like we've been shot in the head and the body is falling in slow motion to the ground.  There's still that bit o' life in the body while we fall, and I imagine the bit o' life will be there for the first bounce or two off the floor.  But this game is dead.

-

No new players coming into the game means:


 

Wormer? He's a dead man!


 

Marmalard? Dead!


 

Neidermeyer? Dead.


 

WOT? Dead!!!


 

-

(Honestly I don't understand how WG doesn't see why this game is dying.  It's not maps, it's not arty, it's not MM, it's not op premium tanks, it's not gold ammo.  It's none of that.  The single reason this game is dying is 'lack of player education'.  Under the current 'sink or swim - zero education' policy, it takes new players thousands of battles to get a basic handle on the gameplay.  Most people aren't going to put that kind of time into a game that's no fun until after you've played a few thousand battles.  And most of the minority of those who do, don't ever get any better.  I've seen players with 50k battles and a 49% win rate.  Really?  How can you be that bad after so long?  Oh, that's right, there really is no WG provided education.  If they want to save this game, they really need to do something drastic.  I would say something along the lines of hiring (insert youtube tank reviewer of choice here/ quickybaby, lemmingrush, whomever) to create an educational series for each tank.  That video would have to be watched before you could play it.  Each tank video would be 3-5 minutes-ish, and go over how to play the tank, actual battle snippets, how to train the crew, and how to equip the crew.  As well as teaching how to play the tank, I would emphasize/sneak in tips on how to read the map, work as a team, vision mechanics, camo mechanics, etc, etc.  By the time someone gets to tier 5-6, they would have had to watch a dozen or so (maybe more) of these videos.  I think it would go a looong way towards shortening the learning curve.

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Additionally, I think there should be a 'bar' to get over before moving up a tier.  That bar could be something like having better than a 50% win rate over the last 30 battles in any given tank.  The 50% requirement would ensure the player has a basic grasp of how to play that tier.  This would prevent players from 'failing up' - failing up can't be fun for them, and is certainly a burden on the rest of the player base.  The 'last 30' battle count ensures bad players aren't burdened by the learning curve.  I.e. if someone is really bad at tier 4, say for 300 battles they get a 43% win rate.  They would not have to bring the overall win rate up, i.e. play another 500 battles at a higher win rate.  They would simply have to do well for the 'last' 30 battles.

-

WG, get on this...  I really don't want this game to die....


 


 


 

 

Yeah, when I was 16 I thoought I knew everything too.

 

You'll get over it.



VicRattlehead_ #45 Posted May 28 2018 - 23:04

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Plus alot of players were done for the night after playing in the CW event.

Urabouttudie #46 Posted May 28 2018 - 23:28

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View Post24cups, on May 28 2018 - 08:48, said:

Nope I'll just merrily go on to something else.

You, however, will probably jump off a cliff with nothing to bit ch  about.

 

I'm glad we've come to the agreement that the game's demise is inevitable and we'll both be moving on to something else eventually...

 

...did you have a point you were trying to make?

 



MoDeM_FoX #47 Posted May 29 2018 - 00:07

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What I hear in my head everytime: "Your tears are the only payment i'll ever need!"  >



24cups #48 Posted May 29 2018 - 01:06

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View PostUrabouttudie, on May 28 2018 - 17:28, said:

 

I'm glad we've come to the agreement that the game's demise is inevitable and we'll both be moving on to something else eventually...

 

...did you have a point you were trying to make?

 

Every game's demise is inevitable.  I am curious as to why you are so fixated on this one. If you don't like it then quit. If you have quit why do you spend so much time on the forums  ?



Michael_Cochrane_2017 #49 Posted May 29 2018 - 02:18

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View PostAltwar, on May 28 2018 - 00:50, said:

WR% threshold to make it to an upper tier?  Really?  So the time of death being talked about is that of the OP's common sense?  Who wants such a thing besides the OP and maybe some few other stat obsessed players?

I don't see that being a fix so much as a wish.

 

Anyway, I don't have a counter offer of what might be a way to improve the population but I have to think adding limits doesn't help.  Is there some other game that does something like that and keeps a player from advancing because statistically they aren't cutting it?   Would be interesting to cite and name the comparison.  But otherwise, I think this would do a thing to help the population.   Maybe a forum that has 75% less "Wargaming sucks, gimme gimme free tanks, etc" might more helpful but that's probably wishful thinking on my part.

 

well no, not his common sense...it makes perfect sense. It would improve game play immensely if you didn't have muppets playing in upper tiers.

Let me put it this way: what do you think the NFL would be like if they allowed grade 9 students who have never laced up the cleats look like? How about the Daytona 500 if they allowed kids with learner permits race? It'd be a disaster and that's what some upper (most) tier battles look like hence why you have 15/2 blowouts......

 

xxBigbacon #50 Posted May 29 2018 - 02:19

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Wows is surpassing wot at various times of day.should tell you something.

VooDooKobra #51 Posted May 29 2018 - 02:41

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View PostMichael_Cochrane_2017, on May 28 2018 - 18:18, said:

 

well no, not his common sense...it makes perfect sense. It would improve game play immensely if you didn't have muppets playing in upper tiers.

Let me put it this way: what do you think the NFL would be like if they allowed grade 9 students who have never laced up the cleats look like? How about the Daytona 500 if they allowed kids with learner permits race? It'd be a disaster and that's what some upper (most) tier battles look like hence why you have 15/2 blowouts......

 

 

so somehow you equate a pubbie game with professional sports?  if any gaming equated to a professional sport it would be the eSports leagues and not a public match in a game.  pubbie games are more like community league sports where everyone even the bad kids gets to play.    also if you started restricting players it would more than likely kill the game faster but i take it that is what you want.  

Edited by VooDooKobra, May 29 2018 - 02:42.


AJABOOBOO #52 Posted May 29 2018 - 02:52

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agree with ya. game is going to die soon and hopefully.

Its not a game anymore anyway.

Its a wallet siphon built onto the poorly twisted remnants of a tank game concept.

no new players and the number of new players has been dropping slowly but steadily for a few years now.

Q: anyone ever wonder why WG has been implementing and utilizing massive power creep, cheep gimmicks, debuffing older premium tanks so they are now utter garbage, not giving refunds or allowing trade ins of said previously good premium tanks, now utter feces on a stick vehicles, lots and lots and lots of sales and bundles and other idiotic and useless goodies and a whole heaping pile of other things to milk every last dime out of the costumer base they publicly insult through the companies own statements?

A: many of us yes but not the wallet warrior/fan bois who will defend this polished turd tehy either spent money on or just like the taste of.



AJABOOBOO #53 Posted May 29 2018 - 02:55

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View PostVooDooKobra, on May 29 2018 - 01:41, said:

 

so somehow you equate a pubbie game with professional sports?  if any gaming equated to a professional sport it would be the eSports leagues and not a public match in a game.  pubbie games are more like community league sports where everyone even the bad kids gets to play.    also if you started restricting players it would more than likely kill the game faster but i take it that is what you want.  

 

 

E-sports lol yeah you know?

the league that has stated for years that WoT is a pay to win casino style mechanic game (which means rigged right down to gameplay mechanics) and hence is not allowed in E-sports leagues at all forcing WG to make their own pseudo E-sports league called WGLNA?

 

because if so then damn.

I would never use something to defend a point i was trying to make that actually is a negative against the thing i am trying to defend.



24cups #54 Posted May 29 2018 - 02:57

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View PostAJABOOBOO, on May 28 2018 - 20:52, said:

agree with ya. game is going to die soon and hopefully.

Its not a game anymore anyway.

Its a wallet siphon built onto the poorly twisted remnants of a tank game concept.

no new players and the number of new players has been dropping slowly but steadily for a few years now.

Q: anyone ever wonder why WG has been implementing and utilizing massive power creep, cheep gimmicks, debuffing older premium tanks so they are now utter garbage, not giving refunds or allowing trade ins of said previously good premium tanks, now utter feces on a stick vehicles, lots and lots and lots of sales and bundles and other idiotic and useless goodies and a whole heaping pile of other things to milk every last dime out of the costumer base they publicly insult through the companies own statements?

A: many of us yes but not the wallet warrior/fan bois who will defend this polished turd tehy either spent money on or just like the taste of.

I actually wonder why people who say the game sucks continue to play it.  Seems mentally unstable to me. But Hey, if hating on those who enjoy the game gets you through another day then have at it.



VooDooKobra #55 Posted May 29 2018 - 03:06

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View PostAJABOOBOO, on May 28 2018 - 18:55, said:

 

 

E-sports lol yeah you know?

the league that has stated for years that WoT is a pay to win casino style mechanic game (which means rigged right down to gameplay mechanics) and hence is not allowed in E-sports leagues at all forcing WG to make their own pseudo E-sports league called WGLNA?

 

because if so then damn.

I would never use something to defend a point i was trying to make that actually is a negative against the thing i am trying to defend.

 

hey if you have a better example of how random battles does not equate to a professional gaming league or a professional sports league, its still better than comparing nfl to random battles but you are ok with that comparison 



GrummbleBum #56 Posted May 29 2018 - 03:52

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Now that's a good concept. Different tiers ( conferences for those Americans). Different divisions.... it's a world wide game with different servers to cater for the masses. 

You're personal win rate is team dependant,so make it skilled base divisions. Similar to the English Football Divisions, if your in the top two you move up a division,bottom 2 move down. ( something to that effect)

You would then be playing against similar players of the same skill,with that said,the odds of having good close games are greater.

I for one would welcome such a multilayered style ranking/ playing system to make it fairer for everyone all round.

I'm sure the seal clubbers  would hate it,but hey,stop making yourself look good against lesser players and try that crap with someone who can play as good if not better than you.

 



SoTrue #57 Posted May 29 2018 - 05:02

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View PostAltwar, on May 27 2018 - 22:50, said:

WR% threshold to make it to an upper tier?  Really?  So the time of death being talked about is that of the OP's common sense?  Who wants such a thing besides the OP and maybe some few other stat obsessed players?

I don't see that being a fix so much as a wish.

 

Anyway, I don't have a counter offer of what might be a way to improve the population but I have to think adding limits doesn't help.  Is there some other game that does something like that and keeps a player from advancing because statistically they aren't cutting it?   Would be interesting to cite and name the comparison.  But otherwise, I think this would do a thing to help the population.   Maybe a forum that has 75% less "Wargaming sucks, gimme gimme free tanks, etc" might more helpful but that's probably wishful thinking on my part.

 

The reason for the 'threshold' to move up tiers is twofold.  First, it can't be fun for new players to 'fail up'.  And even if they don't mind, it becomes almost impossible to 'fix' your stats after playing crappy early.  I got myh T-54 in 2011.  Played 400+ games in it.  Had a win rate of 46%.  It took me 1000+ game to move the win rate up to 50%.  Honestly, I shouldn't have been allowed to play the T-54 back when I was first learning.  I was a burden to my teams, I wasn't having that much fun (didn't really play it again until 2016).  Would have been much better for everyone if I would have been forced to get good at tier 4, then tier 5, then tier 6, etc.

 



SoTrue #58 Posted May 29 2018 - 05:06

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View PostBoredSights, on May 27 2018 - 23:13, said:

I don't agree with the notion this game is dead or dying. I believe for a game this old it is outperforming other games of the same age.

 

I do agree the learning curve is a part of the blame along with expensive premium tanks, bundling items you can earn by playing the game, and bundling XP boosters for premium tanks. Instead they should bundle Crew XP boosters for premium tank bundles. It would be better to bundle gold or items that can only be purchased with gold.

 

WG does have some videos for learning the basics on the Portal. My suggestion is to integrate them into the game. Most mistakes I see are lemming trains (zerg rushes rarely work 15 vs 15), bad timing on when to cap or defend cap (aka tunnel vision), and the misunderstanding of camo/spotting mechanics.

 

I find the current crop of WG 'tutorials' to be far to basic.  I learned far more from watching all the Jingles 'why you heff to be mad' series of youtube videos.  When you have an experienced player showing you the ropes, they can hit all the subtle nuances.  Tutorials can't do that.

View Postgid12, on May 28 2018 - 01:10, said:

I don't think World of Tanks is dead, but I do think it would help to teach the spotting, camo, etc. mechanics in the actual game. I had to look for about an hour to find Wargaming's videos on those (I didn't know they existed, I was just trying to find out how to get better at the game), but once I found the videos they helped me a ton. I think being able to have a kind of guide book in game would be nice. You could open it anytime and look up a mechanic or feature or something and it would tell you how it worked, and maybe have a link to a video explaining it too and giving examples and diagrams. I think this would help existing players as well as new players.

 

See above.

View PostCaptain_Rownd, on May 28 2018 - 02:44, said:

 

Another 30+ battles (300+?) in e.g. the dreadful AMX 38 and I probably would have quit, which seems contrary to your goal.

 

Yes, another 30ish battles.  (Or whatever number we settle on).  Let's say you play the amx 38 for 300 battles, and your win rate is 41%.  Are you really ready to move up a tier?  No, no you are not.  It's not fair to your teammates to saddle them with a loser.  It's not fair to let an unskilled player move up and get trashed in the first 30 seconds of every battle either.  It's better for everyone if you meet a minimum threshold of competence.  Hitting 50% in a tank for a whole 30 battles (or 20, or 25, or 35 - something) isn't a big deal.  What it will force an unskilled player to do is 'get better' before moving up.

SoTrue #59 Posted May 29 2018 - 05:17

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View PostCognitive_Dissonance, on May 28 2018 - 03:46, said:

 

They are doing something about it. They are going for a more choke point, mario kart, or hurr durr eeezy mode play style. Catering to the lowest common denominator by "fixing MM", and making clown tanks like the Type 5, or the faster and more ridiculous ELC Even vs. the T-50-2. Plus some shiny graphics.

 

This game was at it's height at one point due to the difficulty, because the folks that played stuck it out, learned it, and became borderline obsessed with the game. Just like other long lived titles out there with devoted fans. But in the chase for more money, they lost sight of this, now those of us who loved the game early on, are hoping for a better outcome, and hoping the corpse does more than bounce when it hits.

 

I agree.  I would never have stuck with this game had my initial experience been the 'Mario cart' gameplay that is current low tier mm.  It's just boring.  No camo, no spotting, no tactics, just pew pew pew - boring.  And that's a huge problem.  It turns off a lot of players who might otherwise stick with the game.  I know why they did it, they made low tiers boring to prevent sealclubbing.  But I think it backfired.  I'd much rather face a sealclubber every now and then, than every single battle be boring.

View PostTordenskiold, on May 28 2018 - 04:34, said:

Game dead, no. Yes wrt dying, in the sense that we’re all dying right now. Over the last 2 years (according to wot-news http://wot-news.com/...rver/us/norm/en) year over year the game bleeds about 35000 players a year. Looking at the players per week in May 16 there were roughly 230k players per week. In May 18 there were roughly 160k players or a 30% decline. The bleed does seems to have slowed a bit. So the game is in a definite decline (as we all are), but how long is left isn’t entirely sure. It could go on for a long time or a threshold could be reached where players suddenly leave en-masse.
Unfortunately WG seems to anticipate a sooner death and appears to try to milk the base for as much money as possible before that date.
The thing is that this gane is highly addictive, but WG is making it hard for me to stay. I leave because I become disillusioned. I come back cos I’m addicted and the game is executed quite well. I leave again cos I get disillusioned. Repeat ad nauseum.

 

Yeah, it really does seem like 'money grab' after 'money grap' lately.

View PostNunya_000, on May 28 2018 - 06:20, said:

 

Have you considered making your own clan and teaching some of those "uneducated" players?  That is one of the main purposes of clans.  So that the players can teach other players.

 

There is plenty of "education" material available for players.  Why do you think anything offered by WG will improve anything?  Those that do not want or care to learn are not going to bother to take the time anyway.....and any mandatory "education" will drive players away faster than the reason you claim.

 

Let's see, I'm already barely decent at this game.  Should I take on really bad players and drive my stats down so that every time I come post here people can bash me?  Pass.

 

-

There is almost no educational material for players.  Certainly not in game.  And so many people don't bother to search youtube.  And really, they shouldn't have to.  That's like opening a box of monopoly with no instructions.  If you bought the monopoly game, it should come with instructions.  You shouldn't have to go bing how to play monopoly.

View PostJryder, on May 28 2018 - 07:06, said:

I do not understand the point of this kind of thread ("The game is dying"...). The only logical point that I can see is to encourage players to quit the game, thus killing it.

 

Do these threads somehow improve the game? No.

Do they call attention to some game problem in order to address it and improve the game? No.

Do these provide some useful information to help players enjoy their game experience? No.

 

Unless these are coming from shills paid off by competitors, they make no sense to me whatsoever (although in this particular case, it seems more like a "I am unhappy about pref MM happenings" disguised as a "The game is dying" post).

 

did you read my post?  I made several solid suggestions on how to improve the experience for newer players.  And by inference, I recommended new players seek out QB, LR, youtube videos, something that can really help.

View PostLoneEagleFive, on May 28 2018 - 08:01, said:

 

Maybe if people didn't seal club in low tiers or exclusively play OP tanks the new players would stick around more.

 

BTW, you have trash stats for a seal clubber. Your tier 10 stats are below 50%. You are the player you are describing and complaining about.

 

Yes, my tier 10 stats are trash.  Because back in 2011 I rushed as fast as possible to tier 10.  Wasn't good for me, wasn't good for my teams.  I've gotten much better since then.  Look at my shiny new obj 430, running 60% on that tier 9.

 



SoTrue #60 Posted May 29 2018 - 05:24

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View PostApache1990, on May 28 2018 - 10:49, said:

 

The PZB2 is one of the most limited MM tanks in the entire game, because it's not allowed to see anything higher tier than itself.  Since new players have MM protection from veterans (at least while MM isn't being impatient), you sit in queue forever, because other veteran players grinding tanks tend to just free XP past the low tiers that you could match against.

 

I never used to have to wait in lower tier play.  But lately it takes forever to get into a battle.  Oddly enough, it's similar for tier 10.  Sweet spot for short ques seems to be 7-9.

View PostMichael_Cochrane_2017, on May 28 2018 - 17:18, said:

 

well no, not his common sense...it makes perfect sense. It would improve game play immensely if you didn't have muppets playing in upper tiers.

Let me put it this way: what do you think the NFL would be like if they allowed grade 9 students who have never laced up the cleats look like? How about the Daytona 500 if they allowed kids with learner permits race? It'd be a disaster and that's what some upper (most) tier battles look like hence why you have 15/2 blowouts......

 

 

this guy gets it.

View PostVooDooKobra, on May 28 2018 - 17:41, said:

 

so somehow you equate a pubbie game with professional sports?  if any gaming equated to a professional sport it would be the eSports leagues and not a public match in a game.  pubbie games are more like community league sports where everyone even the bad kids gets to play.    also if you started restricting players it would more than likely kill the game faster but i take it that is what you want. 

 

it wouldn't kill the game faster at all.  it would make it better for everyone.  How fun is it to grind up all those tiers, all while dieing in the first minute of every game? It's not fun for anyone.  The only reason bad player fail up is because the fall under the illusion that once they have a bigger tank, they'll do better.  Which we all know is just not true.  Also, equating pubbie games with pro sports is spot on.  The mix of skill between teams is the single biggest factor in who wins.  If one team has 2 tomatoes, and the other team has 8 tomatoes, we all know who wins.

View Post24cups, on May 28 2018 - 17:57, said:

I actually wonder why people who say the game sucks continue to play it.  Seems mentally unstable to me. But Hey, if hating on those who enjoy the game gets you through another day then have at it.

 

this game does suck, about 40% of the time.  But the 60% of the time it doesn't suck, is pure sweetness.

 






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