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Preferential MM Premium tanks only account for 1.4% of tanks played at tier 8

Jingles preferential mm tier 8 kv5 is6

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Nunya_000 #21 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:27

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View PostDrWho_, on May 30 2018 - 07:20, said:

 

Perfect then, just add the option for an actual refund to those of us who rather just give them back to WG and we'll all be happy

 

I do not think a 100% refund is practical....especially for those that have played their preferred MM tanks in over 100 battles.  For a $50 tank, that is $0.50 per battle.  For entertainment value, $0.50 is not much....after all, we are not really buying tanks, we are buying entertainment.  Back in the day, I would spend $0.25 for a 5 minute or less arcade game, so $0.50 today would not be much.

 

However, I would think a full or partial gold refund would be reasonable.



Nonamanadus #22 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:35

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If I order a steak and its gets switched out for veal cutlets I would be mad, especially if I paid for it beforehand.

 

The fundamental principle is an honest transaction, not if the current tanks suck or if Wargaming has "the right to change out tanks". People get really mad when they get jerked around and this company keeps doing it time ans time again. 

 

This company has a huge reputation for treating their customers for granted.



CrazySOB187 #23 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:36

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Ok first this is the NA server WG doesn t care what we think nor every have cared 

2 they made  billions off of world of tank and at this time don t care what the player base thinks outside of the RU (most noted for the cheats that they use )

3 read the terms and service agreement they can and will change things as they see fit

 

SUCK IT UP CUPCAKE no one forced you to buy the tanks



H3llCat_ #24 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:42

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View PostKnagar, on May 30 2018 - 14:12, said:

Even Jingles is on the asinine train, just following lemmings with fake news and misinformation that he got from the Kellerman cretin.

 



Nunya_000 #25 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:46

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View PostNonamanadus, on May 30 2018 - 07:35, said:

If I order a steak and its gets switched out for veal cutlets I would be mad, especially if I paid for it beforehand.

 

The fundamental principle is an honest transaction, not if the current tanks suck or if Wargaming has "the right to change out tanks". People get really mad when they get jerked around and this company keeps doing it time ans time again. 

 

This company has a huge reputation for treating their customers for granted.

 

But if you ordered veal cutlets and were offered a steak, would you still be upset?  Right now, we do not really know what they are offering, except maybe a little insight into the KV-5 changes.  Maybe the changes would actually be worthwhile.  

Says #26 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:52

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View PostKnagar, on May 30 2018 - 15:20, said:

And just as an FYI. The problem stems from Pref MM tanks. Tanks that are old, useless, and not competitive. The number of pref MM tanks being played overall should be a huge hint.

They need to be changed, changed so people will play and buy them. It makes no sense to take apart an MM system that works, replace it, and do nothing about the old an useless tanks. It also doesn't make sense to fix MM and rework the pref MM tanks to be somewhat balanced against T9s, but not so over powered against T7s.

The solution to all of the problems is to take pref MM away and buff the tanks to be competitive in +2 MM.

This allows tanks to be sold that aren't being sold, to be played that aren't being played, and for MM queue times to get better thanks to the system not having to create special teams just for pref MM tanks.

WG wins by selling tanks, we win by getting tanks worth playing again that have been collecting dust.

The only part I don't agree with is Charing people 2000g to exchange a tank. If you're going from a T6 to a T8, sure, makes sense. T8 TO t8, no cost. T8 TO T6, give us the gold. Aside from that I agree with WG.

Not that any of it matters because we all agreed to WGs terms of service that says they can change what they want, when they want, for whatever reason they want. We either deal with it, or move on. We're not entitled to jack fro WG.

 

It is still a bait and switch regardless of how you justify it.

Almighty_Johnson #27 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:56

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View PostBlucraft, on May 30 2018 - 10:20, said:

WG has decided Preferential MM is going away (like they've been saying for years now).  This really shouldn't be a surprise, to anyone who's played this game for a while :sceptic:.  It's going to be pretty epic if they give the KV-5 treatment to all the rest.

 

-Blu

 

The "KV-5 Treatment", as you put it, is a sham.  The entire character of the play style depended on all around troll armor and a crappy gun.  By buffing the front (which does zero to help against Tier 9-10 opponents) and nerfing the sides and rear to heck and back, they just assured that the tank is complete crap against all tiers (+2 and -2)  If they subsequently "buff" the rest of the Pref MM tanks in the same fashion, they'll either wind up with more OP bull-crap tanks or more tanks that are so bad nobody will play/buy them, and those of us who are stuck with them already either get to suck it up, or accept our "Russian Refund"

 

Sorry, man, but the KV-5 is made of cheese against higher tier tanks and if they cut the sides/rear, then even tier 6's will wreck it.



Omega_Weapon #28 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:57

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View PostNunya_000, on May 30 2018 - 10:16, said:

 

I own almost every preferred MM tank as well and I also would not have a problem with +1/-1 for all.....unless it causes the queue times to double or worse, then I would have a problem with it.

 

However, I also would not have a problem if my preferred MM tanks were buffed so that they could compete with tanks +2 tiers higher.  With the 3-5-7 format, the most +2 tier tanks I would face in any battle would be 3.  The tank would also be more competitive against +1 tier tanks.  I would gladly give up the preferred MM status if the power-creep was removed....which is what is really the biggest issue with older preferred MM tanks.

 

​The power creep is real and all the pref MM tanks need some adjustments, but anything drastic enough to let them realistically challenge tier 10 tanks will make them way overpowered against tier 6s and 7s. So you can bet your odds of being top tier ever again will be even less than they currently are with the 3/5/7 set-up. The armour on most pref MM tanks isn't bad. Therefore the easiest fix for the pref MM tanks affected by power creep is to make their premium shells their standard shells. Then you give them enhanced premium ammo that costs what the old premium ammo cost. What could be simpler?

Edited by Omega_Weapon, May 30 2018 - 16:58.


Genada #29 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:58

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View PostNunya_000, on May 30 2018 - 16:46, said:

 

But if you ordered veal cutlets and were offered a steak, would you still be upset?  Right now, we do not really know what they are offering, except maybe a little insight into the KV-5 changes.  Maybe the changes would actually be worthwhile.  

 

YOU maybe happy with it. Many people tho bought the tank so they would not be fighting tier tens with a eight. That's the ONLY reason they bought it.

 

They should offer a full refund option.



Almighty_Johnson #30 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:59

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View PostCrazySOB187, on May 30 2018 - 10:36, said:

Ok first this is the NA server WG doesn t care what we think nor every have cared 

2 they made  billions off of world of tank and at this time don t care what the player base thinks outside of the RU (most noted for the cheats that they use )

3 read the terms and service agreement they can and will change things as they see fit

 

SUCK IT UP CUPCAKE no one forced you to buy the tanks

 

It's not just NA....  EU is up in arms as well, and RU is ready to burn down.  The main post on the NA forums is over 150 pages now of flaming responses....   The RU page is approaching 500 pages!  The only one I don't have any info on is Asia, but they do their own thing anyhow.

Nunya_000 #31 Posted May 30 2018 - 16:59

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View PostGenada, on May 30 2018 - 07:58, said:

 

YOU maybe happy with it. Many people tho bought the tank so they would not be fighting tier tens with a eight. That's the ONLY reason they bought it.

 

They should offer a full refund option.

 

Idk....if my IS-6 was as good or better than the Defender, I would be willing to play it more.

Ken_McGuire #32 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:03

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1) If they change the default from 3-5-7 to 5-10 it doesn't mean that Pref MM means nothing - unless they also completely remove 3-5-7 at the same time. It would mean that it would mean less however... At the very least it looks like this is a solution worth trying. With the way the official test servers work, however, any test of something like this would have to be on one of the smaller live servers.

 

2) The "Does how you treat your paying customers show you respect them in this change" is probably the biggest issue with this whole change. The type of mis-communication does seem to happen enough that it gives the impression that WG has difficulty making their various offices work together. WG certainly has the right to make game changes. I would even say they have the responsibility to do it... But that doesn't mean that WG doesn't have to do better to retain their customers.

 

3) Tied into this whole thing is the whole balance between tiers. Since I have become an active player quite a few tier 8 tanks have been buffed, and still many of us experienced players are complaining about feeling like cannon fodder in most of their battles. They have some justification for their feelings. That said, the difference between tier 10 and 8 tanks is a fraction of the difference between tier 8 and 6 or 6 and 4. I think it was almost 2 years ago when WG said they were looking into balance issues and announced their first sandbox server to start the process. For logical reasons they started with tier 10, with the intent to work their way down. But with the way the game continues to evolve, they have not gotten down to mid and lower tiers where the problems are probably the most serious. At best, it causes us to joke about "soon". At worst it suggests that WG does not care about new players - or advancing players.

 

 



Genada #33 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:04

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View PostNunya_000, on May 30 2018 - 16:59, said:

 

Idk....if my IS-6 was as good or better than the Defender, I would be willing to play it more.

 

You maybe. I am fine with my IS 6 as is NOW. I do not want to play it against tier tens period. If I want to play against tier tens I have plenty of other options to pick from and would rather pick them anyway.

 

The main problem is tho that people bought them with the idea of not fighting tier tens. It was one of the main selling points of the tanks. 

 

Also from the KV 5 standpoint they are changing the tank in major ways that is going to change it's style of play and many people may not have wanted that either.



CapPhrases #34 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:16

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View PostOmega_Weapon, on May 30 2018 - 10:57, said:

 

​The power creep is real and all the pref MM tanks need some adjustments, but anything drastic enough to let them realistically challenge tier 10 tanks will make them way overpowered against tier 6s and 7s. So you can bet your odds of being top tier ever again will be even less than they currently are with the 3/5/7 set-up. The armour on most pref MM tanks isn't bad. Therefore the easiest fix for the pref MM tanks affected by power creep is to make their premium shells their standard shells. Then you give them enhanced premium ammo that costs what the old premium ammo cost. What could be simpler?

 

250 HEAT pen as standard on the T-34-3? that'd be lolz

Elbroth #35 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:18

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Do you think they will care whats posted here or do what they want???

 

Sad thing is I am sure the E4 will get so messed up its going to be a dust ball...

And as far as Tier 8s... Crap leave them out of tier 10s... Balance the other way and make it 1 tier Diff... All tier 8s are in battles is mostly feeder tanks for damage in the end of things.



Guido1212 #36 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:22

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View PostKnagar, on May 30 2018 - 14:20, said:

And just as an FYI. The problem stems from Pref MM tanks. Tanks that are old, useless, and not competitive. The number of pref MM tanks being played overall should be a huge hint.

They need to be changed, changed so people will play and buy them. It makes no sense to take apart an MM system that works, replace it, and do nothing about the old an useless tanks. It also doesn't make sense to fix MM and rework the pref MM tanks to be somewhat balanced against T9s, but not so over powered against T7s.

The solution to all of the problems is to take pref MM away and buff the tanks to be competitive in +2 MM.

This allows tanks to be sold that aren't being sold, to be played that aren't being played, and for MM queue times to get better thanks to the system not having to create special teams just for pref MM tanks.

WG wins by selling tanks, we win by getting tanks worth playing again that have been collecting dust.

The only part I don't agree with is Charing people 2000g to exchange a tank. If you're going from a T6 to a T8, sure, makes sense. T8 TO t8, no cost. T8 TO T6, give us the gold. Aside from that I agree with WG.

Not that any of it matters because we all agreed to WGs terms of service that says they can change what they want, when they want, for whatever reason they want. We either deal with it, or move on. We're not entitled to jack fro WG.

They did take apart a MM system that worked.  Then gave us 3/5/7, then blamed its failure on prefs.  



Nunya_000 #37 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:25

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View PostGuido1212, on May 30 2018 - 08:22, said:

They did take apart a MM system that worked.  Then gave us 3/5/7, then blamed its failure on prefs.  

 

They were removing many preferred MM as regulars in the store long before 3-5-7 was introduced.  It was at least a year before 3-5-7 came out when they said preferred MM tanks were causing an issue with MM.

commander42 #38 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:25

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View PostKnagar, on May 30 2018 - 09:20, said:

And just as an FYI. The problem stems from Pref MM tanks. Tanks that are old, useless, and not competitive. The number of pref MM tanks being played overall should be a huge hint.

They need to be changed, changed so people will play and buy them. It makes no sense to take apart an MM system that works, replace it, and do nothing about the old an useless tanks. It also doesn't make sense to fix MM and rework the pref MM tanks to be somewhat balanced against T9s, but not so over powered against T7s.

The solution to all of the problems is to take pref MM away and buff the tanks to be competitive in +2 MM.

This allows tanks to be sold that aren't being sold, to be played that aren't being played, and for MM queue times to get better thanks to the system not having to create special teams just for pref MM tanks.

WG wins by selling tanks, we win by getting tanks worth playing again that have been collecting dust.

The only part I don't agree with is Charing people 2000g to exchange a tank. If you're going from a T6 to a T8, sure, makes sense. T8 TO t8, no cost. T8 TO T6, give us the gold. Aside from that I agree with WG.

Not that any of it matters because we all agreed to WGs terms of service that says they can change what they want, when they want, for whatever reason they want. We either deal with it, or move on. We're not entitled to jack fro WG.

 

if wg was honest and didn't blame such a tiny minority of vehicles played on mm issues that are entirely related to POOR MM DESIGN BY WG i think there would be far less outrage.  That and the gold issue are the only two problems i have with this decision.  Nobody should be charged to go to a different premium of the same tier as you said.  Those two things make them look extremely greedy, scummy, and dishonest.


If they said "we want to make these tanks competitive again and in order to do so we need to remove the pref mm, we will allow owners to exchange their vehicle for any premium of the same tier if they do not want to keep the changed version. Sorry for the inconvenience and for the trouble we will give you x amount of gold per tank so that you can retrain the crew if you need to" The outrage would have still existed among some but that would have satisfied most people.

Edited by commander42, May 30 2018 - 17:29.


24_inch_pythons #39 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:27

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View PostSays, on May 30 2018 - 09:52, said:

 

It is still a bait and switch regardless of how you justify it.

 

No, that's not what a bait and switch is at all.

GenPanzer #40 Posted May 30 2018 - 17:29

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Title is misleading. Actually Jingles' emphasis is misleading. 1.4% is the number of tanks out of ALL tanks played, not just tier 8. That number doesn't mean crap compared to all tanks. MM and this issue, is not effected by anything tier 5 and below. The true number is more like 4.74% of tier 8s played are PMM tanks. Not that that's a much bigger number, but it is over 3x larger than stated.

 

And, lets take a closer look at those numbers supplied in the video. 12.5million total tanks is what we are working with. 10 tiers. So, 1.25mil is an average. Given are 1.26m at tier 10, 1.89m at tier 9, and 3.7m at tier 8!! That is over twice the average tanks being played at tier 8. And almost 5% of them are PMM. Maybe, just maybe, there is something behind WG's claim. Maybe they have access to more information than what someone can gather off a third party website.

 

I am not defending everything WG is doing here. The fact they continue to sell PMM tanks is a bad idea. Bite the bullet and remove them until this is finalized, duh. The "Russian Refund" is a bad idea. Refunding players for the gold value of the current tank is the most reasonable thing to do. Let the players decide what they want to do with their gold, like you did with the SP back in the day. Too bad if you paid more cash than the tank is worth. At the time you spent that money, you thought it was worth it, so too bad. You gambled, you lost.

 

I just watched circonflexes video. +2 MM is the root of WGs problems. Remove it, make everyone's life easier, profit.






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