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1-2 shots of damage max


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Captain_Rownd #1 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 07:05

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  Since I stopped camping and started trying to move with the battle 1000+ games ago I'm only able to get 1-2 shots of damage per game before being deleted.  I can't figure out how to do better than 2 shots of damage without being useless and camping hard.  3 shots of damage is an exceptionally successful game for me.  I'd say 20% of my games are zero damage, 40% 1 shot damage, 40% 2 shots damage, and 20% more than 2 shots of damage.  Of course, I do better in losses than in wins since in wins the top few players get most of the damage.  It's easier to be relevant when nobody else is and the enemy is yoloing for the last few kills.  I haven't figured out where to go from there. 



_Tsavo_ #2 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 07:21

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There's smart and dumb ways to take positions and move about the battlefield.  Mostly it comes down to areas of the map that are key engagement zones, knowing where they are, how to approach them, and what firing lanes the enemy has.

 

We'll use the mines heatmap for references here:

 

 

Green dots are where the green spawn deploys to, red are where red spawn deploys to.  So you can see where players go and where the early positions are and the key fights. 

 

 

If you're dying after a shot or two, you're being too aggressive or taking very poor positions early.  While active play nets more wins than passive play (active versus camping) there is a balance between the two and going too far with either gets you killed.  Lets say you spawn south on Mines.  Green side.  

 

Depending on the tank you're in, there's a few spots to go and take and contest.  Let's say you're in an M4A3E8, the tier 6 American medium.  You're not blazing fast, but not slow, and have decent gun depression.  Right in the middle of the approach to the hill is a giant pile of rocks, in a tier 6 game you can get here and use the rocks to get peek shots, back off, and peek and fire again.  If you're in something faster, say a Cromwell, you can blitz to the hill top first without stopping at the rocks and have your duel with the enemy fast tanks there.  The winner then can peek and poke from all manner of positions smartly.  

 

So, to be aggressive and keep the fight going, you need to understand your tank and what it's good at and what it's not so good at.  

 

 

What tanks are you playing?  Can you post some replays of matches where you'd like some advice on positioning and routes to key spots?  Right now I can only offer vague generalizations.  



The_Illusive_Man #3 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 07:23

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To improve, I would watch these guys:

_Marine

Circonflexes

SirFoch

LemmingRush

https://www.youtube....-6umt_NOCR709Ng (Taugrim)

https://www.youtube....BdByoYXbydaoBzQ (Orzanel)

(Formating messed up for some reason...)

 

There are other resources out there, but Im not listing them, as im not sure how updated they are. But, you are doing better than alot of players, so it should not take much to get better. You can also PM me ingame to platoon sometime. If you have a mic, that is even better :)



zed2204 #4 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 07:39

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At 2 k games I don't think I was doing more, it will get better, just keep on it
You can watch stuff, that helps, for me just playing and not caring to much worked best, you are still at low tiers where tanks are generally bad and unforgiving of mistakes, it gets better above t6

 

It usually takes 10k to really learn the game, it seems much but it isn't because at low tiers the games are fast and you usually die even faster, now I do probably 5 games an hour but at T1-5 when I was new it was probably 12-15


Edited by zed2204, Jun 05 2018 - 07:43.


Captain_Rownd #5 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 08:11

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Funny thing is 20% of my games I get zero damage, and 20% of my games I get one-shotted by an an enemy.  Nice symmetry of futility there.  Why the game needs vehicles that shoot 400+ alpha going against vehicles that don't have that much HP is a puzzle. 

 

View Post_Tsavo_, on Jun 04 2018 - 20:21, said:

There's smart and dumb ways to take positions and move about the battlefield.  Mostly it comes down to areas of the map that are key engagement zones, knowing where they are, how to approach them, and what firing lanes the enemy has.

 

What tanks are you playing?  Can you post some replays of matches where you'd like some advice on positioning and routes to key spots?  Right now I can only offer vague generalizations.  

 

I go where the map shows there are enemies to shoot or spot, which seems like they ARE be the "engagement zones".  I don't have enough experience with the maps to know what locations can fire or spot to/from other locations, which is one of the main problems.  In battle you don't really have time to explore and figure those things out, so it's just driving out there blindly every time. 

 

Right now I'm mostly been using the low Tier italians up to P43, ARL 44, Stewart M5A1, Type T-34, chinese Su-76, Ikv 103, AMX 40, A-20, T-34.  A bunch of other things.  I do the rotation to get the x2/x3.  Next month I'll be on to using something entirely different. 

 

I've tried recording games in the past, but I haven't been able to figure out how to set it up to work with my machine.  The Nvidia thing does nothing, and a recording program I tried didn't capture the image. 

 

 

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, Jun 05 2018 - 08:12.


_Tsavo_ #6 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 08:26

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Jun 05 2018 - 02:11, said:

Funny thing is 20% of my games I get zero damage, and 20% of my games I get one-shotted by an an enemy.  Nice symmetry of futility there.  Why the game needs vehicles that shoot 400+ alpha going against vehicles that don't have that much HP is a puzzle. 

 

 

I go where the map shows there are enemies to shoot or spot, which seems like they ARE be the "engagement zones".  I don't have enough experience with the maps to know what locations can fire or spot to/from other locations, which is one of the main problems.  In battle you don't really have time to explore and figure those things out, so it's just driving out there blindly every time. 

 

Right now I'm mostly been using the low Tier italians up to P43, ARL 44, Stewart M5A1, Type T-34, chinese Su-76, Ikv 103, AMX 40, A-20, T-34.  A bunch of other things.  I do the rotation to get the x2/x3.  Next month I'll be on to using something entirely different. 

 

I've tried recording games in the past, but I haven't been able to figure out how to set it up to work with my machine.  The Nvidia thing does nothing, and a recording program I tried didn't capture the image. 

 

 

 

 

A few things:

 

For replays, you'll need to make one small change:

 

In the upper left hand corner of our garage, there's a gear.  Click that.

 

Go to "Settings" and scroll to the bottom

 

In the lower left you'll see "Battle recordings" turn this to "all"

 

On your computer, your replays will be stored, by default, in C:/Games/Worldoftanks/replays

 

Each replay file is generally 1 megabyte, sometimes 2 or 3 if it goes to 15 minutes in length.

 

If you have a game you're curious as to what to do better, alt-tab out of your game once it's over and upload the latest replay file to the world of tanks replay website.  

 

Post replay link here.

 

 

 

I do not recommend playing for x3/x2 right now, nor do I recommend shuffling through a wide array of tanks so early in your tanks adventure.  This is not a game of instant gratification, and scrambling through a multitude of different tanks won't let much in the way of lessons stick.  TDs, heavies, mediums, lights, they all play differently.

 

I suggest holding off playing lights and arty until last, for one is very difficult to play well and the other doesn't have consistent drastic impacts in games.

 

I'd stick with your current crop of tanks, but find 2 or 3 that you would like to learn and play them.  Again and again.  Become intimate with what each tank can and can't do, understand positions where you can get shots and positions where you get shot.  Stay in tier 4/5/6 for now, these are mid tiers and good learning environments.  Play each tank for a 100 - 200 games.  Get a decent crew, learn the ammo loadouts and how they work.  Look for guides and how-to-play guides on each tank you're going to play.

 

The more you put into this game, the more you'll get out of it.  Not cash, but in taking 10 minutes every session to learn something new.  A map's position.  A tank's armor values (Tanks.gg is a great website for this) and so on.

 

 

Hope that helps.



Redwave11 #7 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 09:03

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Jun 05 2018 - 16:05, said:

 

*snip*

 

 

It seems like common sense but if you are dying with only 1-2 shots of damage that means you are getting shot more than you are shooting. To change this you need to ensure that you do not poke into multiple guns and put yourself into favourable engagements where the enemy cannot damage you in return. A lot of this comes from what they call 'game sense' which is just what you get from playing thousands of games and remembering the outcomes.

 

I would suggest you focus on:

  • Learning weakpoints and info about tanks. An easy way to do this is just to use tanks.gg or similar to look up a tanks armour model and stats that you struggled with or did not recognise after each battle.
  • Learning micropositioning. Macropositioning (where to go on each map in each situation) will take a long time to learn, for now just know that heavies go where the buildings are many and mediums go where the buildings are less. Micro-positioning on the other hand is how to use your tank and its surroundings to your advantage, this will involve learning how to poke corners effectively, how to use your armour and cover effectively. (Look up guides for sidescaping, hull down and armour angling to start)
  • I would also suggest playing heavies (or mediums) to learn. Lights are too fragile, TD's lack some components of gameplay and arty is all but a waste of time in terms of learning the game. Try the soviet heavies, KV-1 and upwards are all very friendly to new players.

Edited by Redwave11, Jun 07 2018 - 22:17.


Captain_Rownd #8 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 09:03

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Lights are the class I do really well in, and enjoy playing.  If I was going to stick to one thing that would be it.  I can't stand slow heavies....or slow anything. 

 


Edited by Captain_Rownd, Jun 05 2018 - 09:05.


zed2204 #9 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 10:04

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Jun 05 2018 - 09:03, said:

Lights are the class I do really well in, and enjoy playing.  If I was going to stick to one thing that would be it.  I can't stand slow heavies....or slow anything. 

Lights are probably the most unforgiving and skill dependent class, if you become awesome LT player - good but it will take you longer to get there if you start from the hardest class

Mobility is very hard to resist, if you don't know what you are just fast to get in front of the enemy guns


Edited by zed2204, Jun 05 2018 - 10:15.


Captain_Rownd #10 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 10:17

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Hmmm...to me lights are the easiest class.  Heavies are the hardest.  Mobility and vision give you freedom and survival.  In a heavy you're stuck going to a hard corner and trying to play the corner fighting game I can't stand. 

Redwave11 #11 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 10:52

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Jun 05 2018 - 19:17, said:

Hmmm...to me lights are the easiest class.  Heavies are the hardest.  Mobility and vision give you freedom and survival.  In a heavy you're stuck going to a hard corner and trying to play the corner fighting game I can't stand. 

 

The main reason I say to learn heavies first is because the brawling skills and tank knowledge you can from it will easily transfer to mediums and lights. Whereas if you try to learn lights first you tend to learn those skills much slower as you can get away without them.

 

But if you enjoy it and are doing well then thats great just make an effort to improve if you want to improve. Try keep a notepad nearby and write down what went wrong after each battle or what you could have done better. Learning to chai snipe and play TDs also helps with light tank gameplay as you will aften have to engage tanks at a distance.



OldFrog75 #12 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 12:50

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I was worse than horrible when I started.  After 450 battles my overall Wn8 was 13.9 and my average damage was 40.

 

Just keep playing.  When you get to 4000 battles reflect back upon this thread.  When you get to 8000 battles reflect again.


Edited by OldFrog75, Jun 05 2018 - 12:54.


Captain_Rownd #13 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 13:46

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View PostRedwave11, on Jun 04 2018 - 22:03, said:

 

 

It seems like common sense but if you are dying with only 1-2 shots of damage that means you are getting shot more than you are shooting. To change this you need to ensure that you do not poke into multiple guns and put yourslef into favourable engaugements where the enemy cannot damage you in return. Alot of this comes from what they call 'game sense' which is just what you get from playing thousands of games and remembering the outcomes.

 

Well, it only takes one gun to kill you quickly, but if I knew beforehand there would be *multiple* guns shooting at me obviously I wouldn't have gone into such a position.  You don't know what the danger will be until it happens...or doesn't happen.  If you can't be shot then you can't shoot either, and you aren't really in the battle, so you always have to go into the unknown and take the risk.  Favorable engagements would be great - I wish the enemy would be so kind as to announce where they will be happening.  :D 

 



MacDaddyMatty #14 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 13:56

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Jun 05 2018 - 01:05, said:

 

  Since I stopped camping and started trying to move with the battle 1000+ games ago I'm only able to get 1-2 shots of damage per game before being deleted.  I can't figure out how to do better than 2 shots of damage without being useless and camping hard.  3 shots of damage is an exceptionally successful game for me.  I'd say 20% of my games are zero damage, 40% 1 shot damage, 40% 2 shots damage, and 20% more than 2 shots of damage.  Of course, I do better in losses than in wins since in wins the top few players get most of the damage.  It's easier to be relevant when nobody else is and the enemy is yoloing for the last few kills.  I haven't figured out where to go from there.

 

Been there.

 

Go here: https://www.clandday.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9

Start here:

Spoiler

 

 



da_Rock002 #15 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:08

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Jun 05 2018 - 04:17, said:

Hmmm...to me lights are the easiest class.  Heavies are the hardest.  Mobility and vision give you freedom and survival.  In a heavy you're stuck going to a hard corner and trying to play the corner fighting game I can't stand.

 

 

Good thing is the 4 tanks you've done the best in so far are the T-34, M4, Val and Sav/43.   Another good thing about them is they are T5 and T4.   Those two tiers are high enough to actually use most of the game mechanics.    Stick with what you do better in. 


 

Getting killed early is what happens when you rush into the fight.   Don't lead the way off the spawn. 

Keep in mind that you just might have the least "improved" tank in your battles.   Do your most used tanks (T-34 and M4) have crews with more than one skill?   There is an excellent chance the tanks you encounter are going to be driven by players who not only have lots more playing experience and map knowledge, but have a gunner with SnapShot and DeadEye,  a driver with SmoothRide and OffRoad, a loader with SituationalAwareness.   And they probably have multiple crew with concealment and repairs.      You're facing tanks that can see better, hide better, take shots and recover better and probably shoot with luckier RNG.       So you really don't want to get out ahead of your teammates.  

 

If you've ever wondered why you so often take the first shots and they come in a bunch...…….   notice where you are relative to your team mates.    Leading the charge and running off on your own doesn't usually turn out good for newbies.   


 

Those two mediums you have the most battles in are good ones, and you're doing over 50% WR in them.   Notice the M4 isn't exactly a Greyhound and you've got a higher WR in it.   One reason heavies are better for most newbies is the lower tier ones are too slow to encounter the enemy early on, before the newbies in fast tanks on your team have led the charge and died.


 

Are those top 4 tanks of yours fully equipped?    Do the crews have skills yet?    Do you have any BIA crews yet? 



WIZD #16 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:57

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View PostCaptain_Rownd, on Jun 05 2018 - 09:03, said:

Lights are the class I do really well in, and enjoy playing.  If I was going to stick to one thing that would be it.  I can't stand slow heavies....or slow anything. 

 

 

Find cover also as a light your not really suppose to be aggressive. You spot and pick off weak lone tanks. I would also like to add past tier 7 maybe 8 lights are useless as the meds out spot them and have better armor.

Edited by WIZD, Jun 05 2018 - 14:58.


Raxter54 #17 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 15:41

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I like watching 4tankersanddog on YouTube. He has a lot of map guides (Where the F*ck To Go On XXXX), a lot of scout guides for the different maps, and a new series called Tanking 201 - Know Your Roll In Every Battle. Might be worth a look...

SKurj #18 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 15:42

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Taugrim has lots of good info on playing lights:

 

http://forum.worldof...d-tank-reviews/

 

as does 4TankersAndDog

 

http://forum.worldof...ting-locations/



tonkmato #19 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 16:55

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It's nice when people actually ask for advice instead of blaming the game. Lots of good advice given in this thread as opposed to the standard trolling. 

 

I will say the hardest part of this game to learn is awareness. Sometimes camping is the right play sometimes being aggressive is. Recognizing the flow of the battle and knowing the maps are usually the last thing people learn. 

 

Watching streamers and youtubers is a good way to learn these. You can watch good players sure, but you likely won't replicate the plays they make. Another thing you can do is watch less skilled players. Watch for the mistakes and try to not make the same mistakes they do. It is easier to try to avoid bad plays than to try to copy unicums.

 

Also if you dont have replays turned on, do it. You don't need to watch all your replays. But if you can't figure out wthjust happened, watch the replay. You will miss things in the heat of battle (tunnel vision) that you can go back and look at. Also increase the size of your mini map. ACTIVELY TRY to look at it as often as possible. Eventually it will become second nature. 



Captain_Rownd #20 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 18:59

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View Postda_Rock002, on Jun 05 2018 - 03:08, said:

 

Are those top 4 tanks of yours fully equipped?    Do the crews have skills yet?    Do you have any BIA crews yet? 

 

I don't think there are enough games in any of my vehicles to really tell much from the individual vehicle win rate.  A single game is a 1-2% swing.  Some of the vehicles I feel better in have worse win rates, and vice versa.  The win rate by Tier shows steady decline to about 44% at Tier 6.  I grind everything up from the base equipment, but M4, T-34 and Sav m/43 also had zero-skill BIA crews.  Valentine II has preferential matchmaking. 

 

View Posttonkmato, on Jun 05 2018 - 05:55, said:

It's nice when people actually ask for advice instead of blaming the game.

 

Technically it was more along the lines of venting.  I do frequently blame anything starting with "Su", "KV" or "IS".  :angry:

 






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