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pish180 #1 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 08:08

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This game is so horribly designed and is SCREAMING for help to be redesigned properly.  Everyone grinds so hard to get to T10, they get there and then realize... this game is 100% Pay to Win and Pay to Play.  Paying for Silver at the end of a match is the most asinine thing I've ever heard of.  If you lose you will 100% will be charged Silver at the end of the round even with Premium Time.  This BLOWS MY F'in MIND that WG thought this was a good idea.  Ethically speaking I don't think I can knowingly give WG any more money with this concept... and I certainly would never refer a friend to play this game because I know they will be playing oodles of money in a black hole.   Once I run out my Premium time, I'm done with this game unless there is a commitment to re-designed the game.  

In the event someone with a title from WG is reading this I will provide my constructive feedback as polite as I can.  I will try to define the problem followed by the solution.

 

1.  Once you reach T9 and T10 this game is 100% Pay-To-Play and Pay-To-Win.  It is costing Silver almost 100% of the time if you lose and that is with a Premium account (I'm already paying and I'm still losing Silver... *mind is blown*).  The game was intentionally designed with top Tier tanks to have more armor than most tanks have firepower... of course unless you use premium ammo and now if you are a paying extra Silver per round... That player shall now be granted an almost certain chance to penetrate and cause damage if they wish to pay WG more money.
 SOLUTION:  This is a multi-part fix.  

a.  Remove the ability to buy Premium ammo Give each player a limit of premium rounds based on tank stats per tank/per battle.  So say something like the IS7 you get 4-5 Premium rounds, JPZ E100 gets 2, etc.  This removes the aspect of Pay-To-Win because players will not be charged for the ammo they will be given it and the strategy will be "use it wisely".   

b.  Rebalance the penetration of all the guns to allow for standard ammo to be more effective.  In my 705A and I have less than 28% chance to penetration the 268V4 in the front with std ammo. The 268 doesn't even have to be behind cover, doesn't have to move, they don't even have to angle the armor.  There needs to be some serious balancing. 

c. Make HE rounds more effective for non-HE default tanks.   I can't even tell you how many times I've hit a T34 directly in the gunner's viewport with an HE round and it does nothing.  Maybe at least add a short stun. Most of the time we are talking about 80-200dmg using an HE round they should have a little bit more use than that.  

d.  Rebalance how Silver is earned for all tiers 5-10.  You should NEVER be charged silver to play this game PERIOD!!  Silver earnings should be consistent at all levels from T5-T10.  This will remove the Pay-To-Play concept.   And Now I'm sure you will be saying OMG... we can't do that... Nobody will buy Premium, we will lose money, etc... NOT TRUE.  You can still have Premium earn you more silver but the concept of losing silver is PAY-To-Play, 100%.  You should be rewarding players for playing your game.  Encourage them to spend money, not force them to spend money.  It should be fun and they should want to spend money on "cool" items (more on this later).

e.  Change the way that Experience and Silver are earned.  Currently, the system is so HORRIBLY broken it's not funny!  It rewards AFKs, Bots, AI, Kill Stealers, Campers, Griefers, and Baiters.  Players should be rewarded for their battle contribution NOT rewarded more for winning or losing the TEAM battle.  If you end the game with no shots, no damage, 0-spotting damage, etc, you get 0 Silver and No Exp.  If you lose the game and did 4k damage 2k blocked damage you should get a ton of EXP and Silver for attempting to play the game and be a team player attempting to try and Win.  The problem is actually counter-intuitive when rewarding players.  Giving players an extra bonus based on a win with the current matchmaking system means you can just set up and AFK bot, or just go camp in the corner and still be rewarded very well for literally doing nothing and contributing nothing. It's an odds game if you queue up enough as AFK you will eventually get carried to a win. 

f.  Implement "Counts-As-Kill" stats that allows the player that did the most damage to earn the credit for the kill (lots of FPS games currently do this like BattleField, Battlefront).  This removes the benefit for the greedy kill stealers who don't shoot (bait their team) until the last moment to steal the kill.  Again this encourages teamwork because even if they get the final blow... it might not be "their" kill.  The goal should be to eliminate the target as quickly as possible not wait for the last shot and get all the kills.  This is a real thing that happens almost every game I play!  


2.  REMOVE GOLD or have a way to EARN gold.  100% crew training should be done with Silver,  Re-training crews should be done with Silver.  There should be NOTHING that gives players an advantage that costs an in-game currency that is only obtainable using real $$.  If you want to use Gold as the currency... for Crews then allow players to earn Gold or convert Silver to Gold.  Sure that is a problem because now they can get premium tanks for free.   True.  Honestly premium tanks are horribly broken and that's an entirely different conversation.   The premium shop should only sell Gold and you use Gold to buy tanks, Personal Reserves, Premium Time. 


3. For the love of everything holy FIX MATCH MAKING!!  3/5/7 is a terrible idea!  Whoever thought of 3/5/7 that should be hit with a baseball bat repeatedly.  If you choose to keep 3 Tier MM (which I'm sure you will because you don't have enough players in Queue to play the game without it) then please change the ratio to 2/8/5.  I believe making it the majority middle tier tanks will help for many reasons but mainly to help to reduce the LANDSLIDES wins and losses due to your top tier 3 tanks being terrible.  Currently, with 3 Tier 10s there are 7 tanks that are pretty much "easy kills" aka frag bait and 5 somewhat respectable opponents, that's not too hard to overcome in a 268 V4, Maus, or FV4005, etc. Also only really having 8 of 15 players that can penetrate is also a big factor. Another (what I think is obvious but apparently not). fix for the Match Maker is to allow for players to have an even ratio of games as Mid/Top/Bottom tiers allowing for an even playing ground.  This by itself would make T10 MatchMaking take a long time since they are currently placed with T8's so much.  I believe implementing No Silver Lost, Evening the EXP/Silver earnings across the board will help even the player base out, not to mention make T10 more accessible for players who are good.  It is best to reward the players that are helping the game by being good.  It is good to also say AFK players will not be rewarded at all for lack of contribution. 

 

4. FreeEXP are you kidding me? Now I'm playing the game and doing well.. and I'm earning something that I can only use if I pay real $$!? Seriously, another terrible idea and they should be hit with a baseball bat!  If you want more money.....  Develop more cosmetic mods, custom round tracers, custom tank explosions, flags, etc etc.  It's SO simple I SERIOUSLY think an 8-year-old could come up with these ideas.  Give the players EXP and if you must keep this FreeEXP thing... allow players to use Silver to convert it, not real money.   Reward players for playing not penalize them with PAY MORE moto.   

 

 

I feel these 4 HUGE things would change the entire game for the better... I know it will never happen because this is a Russian based company and they bank on players surge spending and then quitting.  The majority of the people that stick around are the people that have invested too much money in the game and would feel like bankruptcy if they quit.   Most of the top players don't even buy anything anymore.  The income is literally based on doping new players into their Ponzi-scheme.  I'll likely keep my account but likely won't play after my Premium runs out.  Best of luck, I will be dreaming of the day when these changes are implemented.  


TLDR?? 
Troll Bait here: 


Edited by pish180, Jun 05 2018 - 22:49.


pish180 #2 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 08:18

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And FTR - I'm all about supporting the development teams and even donating.  But forcing players into a Pay-To-Win and Pay-To-Play model I have a serious issue with and this game is 100% just that.   The game was designed years ago when that wasn't a "big deal" now the gamers have pretty much jumped onboard with boycotting these types of games... Battlefront 2, Destiny2, etc.  If you are clueless as to why your player base is dropping... You don't have to wonder much more.  Your model is BROKEN.   There I said it.  

KingofDragons #3 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 08:31

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i have closed my wallet because i do not agree with the current B.S ... They are way to cheap with their virtual items and their thinking... Has to be a eastern euro thing because out West people would get runned out of town if someone opened up a business with that mentality..

 

Some people in power just don't get it and that is why this company will never be all it can be... Time for some personnel to move along and stop putting a drag like anchors...



Grisbane #4 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 08:39

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I feel like a broken record, WGNA can respond but Minsk doesn't care.  This server is profit farm only, Belarus not only does not like, but actively opposes any NATO country. If you expect WG HQ to defer from the national viewpoint, I feel bad for you.  Go to the Russian forums if you want even the slimmest chance of an actual response beyond lip service, you are wasting your time here.

UnusualFrosting #5 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 12:07

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People spam gold ammo because of a multitude of factors that wargaming has caused(insane armor mostly). If you want to remove it without damaging the game you gotta remove pen rng, remove all HE based tanks(type 5, 4005, 183, etc), and make sure that every tank has a weakspot/s pennable with standard ammo. But dont get your hopes up because wargaming would rather have more money driving this game into the ground than fixing it

Edited by UnusualFrosting, Jun 05 2018 - 12:07.


Bootknife #6 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 12:31

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Gets out lawn chair, plops down and gets a beer out of the cooler...

Boouck #7 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 12:35

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You all do realize you don't have to play the game, right? No one is holding a gun to your head...If you dislike it so much, move on...

Fireplace4 #8 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 12:58

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You guys are missing why you lose money in tier 9 and 10... It's so that the population at tiers 4-8 doesn't dwindle to nothing. Wargaming is forcing you to play tiers 4-8 to pay for your 9 and 10s, the economy needs a lot of work, but there is a method to the madness. How would it look to new players if they went to queue into a battle at tier 4 and got booted at 5 minutes wait a couple times? If you could play tier 10 indefinitely then why play anything else, it's the tier where most tanks feel like they are what they are meant to be (not talking about balance, just that most tier 8s and 9s directly evolve into their tier 10s10s, making the tier 10s feel like the final product)

wildgooseman #9 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 13:22

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While I agree the economy in tanks is far from perfect (especially coparing to warships) it should be noted that not even the unicums make much if any silver at 9/10. They grind tier 8 premiums which is what WG want everyone to do as you only have to look at how many premium 8s there are and the rate new ones are introduced.



enya1ius #10 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 13:23

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View PostBoouck, on Jun 05 2018 - 11:35, said:

You all do realize you don't have to play the game, right? No one is holding a gun to your head...If you dislike it so much, move on...

 

this argument always makes me laugh, you do realize that if everyone who was immensely dissatisfied by WG and the terrible decisions they continually make left, you would not be playing the game either. as it is, part of NA's issue is with its low server size. Say the inability to service their own customers drives away an additional 20% of the playerbase, what then?

 


Edited by enya1ius, Jun 05 2018 - 13:26.


riff_ #11 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 13:30

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View Postpish180, on Jun 05 2018 - 02:08, said:

This game is so horribly designed and is SCREAMING for help to be redesigned properly.  Everyone grinds so hard to get to T10, they get there and then realize... this game is 100% Pay to Win and Pay to Play.  Paying for Silver at the end of a match is the most asinine thing I've ever heard of.  If you lose you will 100% will be charged Silver at the end of the round even with Premium Time.  This BLOWS MY F'in MIND that WG thought this was a good idea.  Ethically speaking I don't think I can knowingly give WG any more money with this concept... and I certainly would never refer a friend to play this game because I know they will be playing oodles of money in a black hole.   Once I run out my Premium time, I'm done with this game unless there is a commitment to re-designed the game.  

In the event someone with a title from WG is reading this I will provide my constructive feedback as polite as I can.  I will try to define the problem followed by the solution.

 

1.  Once you reach T9 and T10 this game is 100% Pay-To-Play and Pay-To-Win.  It is costing Silver almost 100% of the time if you lose and that is with a Premium account (I'm already paying and I'm still losing Silver... *mind is blown*).  The game was intentionally designed with top Tier tanks to have more armor than most tanks have firepower... of course unless you use premium ammo and now if you are a paying extra Silver per round... That player shall now be granted an almost certain chance to penetrate and cause damage if they wish to pay WG more money.
 SOLUTION:  This is a multi-part fix.

a.  Remove the ability to buy Premium ammo,  Give each player a limit of premium rounds based on tank stats per tank/per battle.  So say something like the IS7 you get 4-5 Premium rounds, JPZ E100 gets 2, etc.  This removes the aspect of Pay-To-Win because players will not be charged for the ammo they will be given it and the strategy will be "use it wisely".

b.  Rebalance the penetration of all the guns to allow for standard ammo to be more effective.  In my 705A and I have less than 28% chance to penetration the 268V4 in the front with std ammo. The 268 doesn't even have to be behind cover, doesn't have to move, they don't even have to angle the armor.  There needs to be some serious balancing.

c. Make HE rounds more effective for non-HE default tanks.   I can't even tell you how many times I've hit a T34 directly in the gunner's viewport with an HE round and it does nothing.  Maybe at least add a short stun. Most of the time we are talking about 80-200dmg using an HE round they should have a little bit more use than that.

d.  Rebalance how Silver is earned for all tiers 5-10.  You should NEVER be charged silver to play this game PERIOD!!  Silver earnings should be consistent at all levels from T5-T10.  This will remove the Pay-To-Play concept.   And Now I'm sure you will be saying OMG... we can't do that... Nobody will buy Premium, we will lose money, etc... NOT TRUE.  You can still have Premium earn you more silver but the concept of losing silver is PAY-To-Play, 100%.  You should be rewarding players for playing your game.  Encourage them to spend money, not force them to spend money.  It should be fun and they should want to spend money on "cool" items (more on this later).

e.  Change the way that Experience and Silver are earned.  Currently, the system is so HORRIBLY broken it's not funny!  It rewards AFKs, Bots, AI, Kill Stealers, Campers, Griefers, and Baiters.  Players should be rewarded for their battle contribution NOT rewarded more for winning or losing the TEAM battle.  If you end the game with no shots, no damage, 0-spotting damage, etc, you get 0 Silver and No Exp.  If you lose the game and did 4k damage 2k blocked damage you should get a ton of EXP and Silver for attempting to play the game and be a team player attempting to try and Win.  The problem is actually counter-intuitive when rewarding players.  Giving players an extra bonus based on a win with the current matchmaking system means you can just set up and AFK bot, or just go camp in the corner and still be rewarded very well for literally doing nothing and contributing nothing. It's an odds game if you queue up enough as AFK you will eventually get carried to a win.

f.  Implement "Counts-As-Kill" stats that allows the player that did the most damage to earn the credit for the kill (lots of FPS games currently do this like BattleField, Battlefront).  This removes the benefit for the greedy kill stealers who don't shoot (bait their team) until the last moment to steal the kill.  Again this encourages teamwork because even if they get the final blow... it might not be "their" kill.  The goal should be to eliminate the target as quickly as possible not wait for the last shot and get all the kills.  This is a real thing that happens almost every game I play!


2.  REMOVE GOLD or have a way to EARN gold.  100% crew training should be done with Silver,  Re-training crews should be done with Silver.  There should be NOTHING that gives players an advantage that costs an in-game currency that is only obtainable using real $$.  If you want to use Gold as the currency... for Crews then allow players to earn Gold or convert Silver to Gold.  Sure that is a problem because now they can get premium tanks for free.   True.  Honestly premium tanks are horribly broken and that's an entirely different conversation.   The premium shop should only sell Gold and you use Gold to buy tanks, Personal Reserves, Premium Time.


3. For the love of everything holy FIX MATCH MAKING!!  3/5/7 is a terrible idea!  Whoever thought of 3/5/7 that should be hit with a baseball bat repeatedly.  If you choose to keep 3 Tier MM (which I'm sure you will because you don't have enough players in Queue to play the game without it) then please change the ratio to 2/8/5.  I believe making it the majority middle tier tanks will help for many reasons but mainly to help to reduce the LANDSLIDES wins and losses due to your top tier 3 tanks being terrible.  Currently, with 3 Tier 10s there are 7 tanks that are pretty much "easy kills" aka frag bait and 5 somewhat respectable opponents, that's not too hard to overcome in a 268 V4, Maus, or FV4005, etc. Also only really having 8 of 15 players that can penetrate is also a big factor. Another (what I think is obvious but apparently not). fix for the Match Maker is to allow for players to have an even ratio of games as Mid/Top/Bottom tiers allowing for an even playing ground.  This by itself would make T10 MatchMaking take a long time since they are currently placed with T8's so much.  I believe implementing No Silver Lost, Evening the EXP/Silver earnings across the board will help even the player base out, not to mention make T10 more accessible for players who are good.  It is best to reward the players that are helping the game by being good.  It is good to also say AFK players will not be rewarded at all for lack of contribution.

 

4. FreeEXP are you kidding me? Now I'm playing the game and doing well.. and I'm earning something that I can only use if I pay real $$!? Seriously, another terrible idea and they should be hit with a baseball bat!  If you want more money.....  Develop more cosmetic mods, custom round tracers, custom tank explosions, flags, etc etc.  It's SO simple I SERIOUSLY think an 8-year-old could come up with these ideas.  Give the players EXP and if you must keep this FreeEXP thing... allow players to use Silver to convert it, not real money.   Reward players for playing not penalize them with PAY MORE moto.

 

 

I feel these 4 HUGE things would change the entire game for the better... I know it will never happen because this is a Russian based company and they bank on players surge spending and then quitting.  The majority of the people that stick around are the people that have invested too much money in the game and would feel like bankruptcy if they quit.   Most of the top players don't even buy anything anymore.  The income is literally based on doping new players into their Ponzi-scheme.  I'll likely keep my account but likely won't play after my Premium runs out.  Best of luck, I will be dreaming of the day when these changes are implemented.

 


 

You do know that WG is allowed to make a profit with their game and company:ohmy:.  I am amazed that players believe that they should be able to play up to and through tier ten for free.:facepalm:


 

I see one of two things with your post OP:

1.  You do not understand how the world works.:confused:

2.  You are trolling the forum with this post..:)


Edited by riff_, Jun 05 2018 - 13:32.


enya1ius #12 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 13:50

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View Postriff_, on Jun 05 2018 - 12:30, said:

 


 

You do know that WG is allowed to make a profit with their game and company:ohmy:.  I am amazed that players believe that they should be able to play up to and through tier ten for free.:facepalm:


 

I see one of two things with your post OP:

1.  You do not understand how the world works.:confused:

2.  You are trolling the forum with this post..:)

lots and lots of free2play games have business models that arent pay to win

 



Bootknife #13 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:04

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(grabs another beer out of the cooler...)

_Katyusha___ #14 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:06

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Why do u even play tier X?

 

All the fun, historical, good looking tanks are at lower tiers. Kv-2, cromwell, pz IV, T-34, sherman, stug III, hellcat, B1, Chi Ha, IS-2, etc.

 

Tier X is just a freak show anyway. There is no need to suffer grinding credits and exp at higher tiers when most of the best game content is available much earlier.

 

I also love how people complains over and over about WG being a business, also linking it to politics, and even about race! There is people that come here and complains about them as if they were communist!

 

Some of you guys acts like if you hate capitalism, lol. No wonder why NA server size is the smallest, if people playing here is unable to manage frustration  or learn to adapt to the changes. 


Edited by _Katyusha___, Jun 05 2018 - 14:07.


Nonamanadus #15 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:18

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Well if Wargaming keeps dumping filth on their playerbase they might put themselves into a position where they will try and sell off the NA market (knock on wood).

enya1ius #16 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:19

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View Post_Katyusha___, on Jun 05 2018 - 13:06, said:

 No wonder why NA server size is the smallest, if people playing here is unable to manage frustration  or learn to adapt to the changes. 

 

Yes it is the 9 million registered players on NA that have no idea what they want in gameplay, probably why less than 200k play in a week. and why new player recruitment is also at a low. it has to be us and not the dev team. got to be. 



Abdoman #17 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:21

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View Post_Katyusha___, on Jun 05 2018 - 07:06, said:

Why do u even play tier X?

 

All the fun, historical, good looking tanks are at lower tiers. Kv-2, cromwell, pz IV, T-34, sherman, stug III, hellcat, B1, Chi Ha, IS-2, etc.

 

Tier X is just a freak show anyway. There is no need to suffer grinding credits and exp at higher tiers when most of the best game content is available much earlier.

 

I also love how people complains over and over about WG being a business, also linking it to politics, and even about race! There is people that come here and complains about them as if they were communist!

 

Some of you guys acts like if you hate capitalism, lol. No wonder why NA server size is the smallest, if people playing here is unable to manage frustration  or learn to adapt to the changes. 

 

I agree, lower tiers are more like a battle and not like some blood drive using vampires on sheep like tier X is.

Mojo_Riesing #18 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:29

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Edited by Mojo_Riesing, Jun 07 2018 - 08:57.


Boouck #19 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:50

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View Postenya1ius, on Jun 05 2018 - 13:23, said:

 

this argument always makes me laugh, you do realize that if everyone who was immensely dissatisfied by WG and the terrible decisions they continually make left, you would not be playing the game either. as it is, part of NA's issue is with its low server size. Say the inability to service their own customers drives away an additional 20% of the playerbase, what then?

 

 

Well, I sure wouldn't come on the forums crying about how I dislike this game...And as far as what I would do? World Of Tanks is not the ONLY game out here...

the_dude_76 #20 Posted Jun 05 2018 - 14:54

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View Postenya1ius, on Jun 05 2018 - 12:23, said:

 

this argument always makes me laugh, you do realize that if everyone who was immensely dissatisfied by WG and the terrible decisions they continually make left, you would not be playing the game either. 

 

And this argument makes me laugh. If WG and their game were as bad as you all think they are this is exactly what would have happened long ago. Believe it or not, unlike apparent gluttons for punishment such as yourself, most customers of any business leave once they become "immensely dissatisfied".

 

And yet the game continues to thrive despite it's shocking (sarcasm) inability to please absolutely everyone.

 

And to the OP- -Please stop pretending that you speak for "everyone" because it's laughable ridiculous...







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