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crazy but are bots better than people?


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cocobabygirl #1 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 14:32

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Ok let me explain my experience while playing with bots.  The other mourning 8am eastern time I logged on to WOT and noticed that the amount of players were about 1800 total.  I never seen it that low but decided to play a game with my tier 8 FCM heavy.  It was great for me because it seem I was playing the game as it was meant. The other tanks followed as if they were directed from me on where to go.  It wasn't a easy battle but I learned from it, as to what I should be doing with my tank as well as theirs.  In most battles you witness tanks doing very different things, other than instructed in several learning videos.  I would love to play more battles like this one with real players other than bots.  Also the chat wasn't going crazy with raving comments about playing technics.  Before I get beaten up with words, yes I have had battles that were similar. This was a great learning experience for myself as to what my tank should be doing when your team is working together.

KeepYourselfSafe_xD #2 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 14:41

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Most bots play at 100-450 wn8. There are actually quite a bit of real players that play at that skill  level as well. It's insane.

Also, your 'call' of random pubby matches is probably based on the general sheeping pubbies do. Basically, they probably ignored your message and went where they always go which is what you always see. 

Cognitive_Dissonance #3 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 14:48

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They used to be a nuisance and caused groans, now with the general slide in player skill, they are valued allies and highly prized.

Silversound #4 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 15:27

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View PostCognitive_Dissonance, on Jun 08 2018 - 05:48, said:

They used to be a nuisance and caused groans, now with the general slide in player skill, they are valued allies and highly prized.

 

This is the post of the day.

Maltfourti #5 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 15:39

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Better? in a few cases maybe. More reliable, and less likely to tk, grief, redline? Hell yes.

GeorgePreddy #6 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 15:40

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Bots are kewl.

 

 

 

 

 



LeaveIT2Beaver #7 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 16:23

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Bots are way better at this game than I am.  But they don't have a MasterCard to buy premium items with. :trollface:

KiDiaba #8 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 16:42

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Posted Image

 

Every hour every day !!!



Pipinghot #9 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 17:15

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So... you had a good battle and just assumed it was because everyone around you were bots. That's an interesting way of looking at the universe.

Mikosah #10 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 18:46

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The trick is that most of the work in playing a solid match is just in the positioning. If your position is good enough then the sheer amount of input you have to then contribute may end up being reduced to just the left mouse button (incidentally, this is the explanation of why arty is so hated, because they can skip to this stage without having to even leave the spawn point). The typical potato may actually be an excellent marksman and have the world's best reflexes, but if he's out of position then even in spite of his talents he's completely indistinguishable from a bot. 

 

And the even greater irony is that if hypothetically the entire enemy team were actually bots, most players who could be put in the position of playing against them wouldn't know the difference and may even have a better time farming the bots than they would against human players. 



3nr0n #11 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 19:09

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Here is a clan of "alphabet bots" that was brought up in an earlier thread they mainly play at tier 5.

 

http://wotlabs.net/na/clan/BEBEL/

 

 



Boghie #12 Posted Jun 08 2018 - 21:57

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Coco,

 

You were probably on the South American server.

 

Yuk, yuk...



cocobabygirl #13 Posted Jun 09 2018 - 17:19

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Mikosah your very right on your ideas.  The point is a year ago I would be that player to farm a team of bots lol.  Because of my great clan and several other players helping me I really appreciate a good player now.  Knowing where to position and when to push or retreat and go back to protect base all comes with playing with the right players.  That day the bots were great to have trained for that reason.  Bougie is a great player to platoon with he knows all the mechanics and tank capabilities.  

Necrophore #14 Posted Jun 09 2018 - 17:38

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The good bots are better shots. I've watched one sit at spawn with the barrel pointing at the ground, then snapshot back at anyone who shoots at it. Perfect turret rotation, shoots with server side aim so you're hit before the barrel is even pointing at you. Then it goes back to aiming at the ground until the next shot comes. 

Boghie #15 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 17:50

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View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 09 2018 - 11:19, said:

Mikosah your very right on your ideas.  The point is a year ago I would be that player to farm a team of bots lol.  Because of my great clan and several other players helping me I really appreciate a good player now.  Knowing where to position and when to push or retreat and go back to protect base all comes with playing with the right players.  That day the bots were great to have trained for that reason.  Bougie is a great player to platoon with he knows all the mechanics and tank capabilities.  

 

Uh, not quite great...

Not quite good either...

And, not quite average...

 

Somewhere below average - but improving!!!

 

By the way, when we platoon our WR is usually +10% from our norms.  Me like!!!



Buttknuckle #16 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 17:59

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Sorry it's early and I haven't finished my coffee, so can someone tell me if is this a supposed to be a serious thread or one of those tongue-in-cheek types.

Boghie #17 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 18:15

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View PostButtknuckle, on Jun 10 2018 - 11:59, said:

Sorry it's early and I haven't finished my coffee, so can someone tell me if is this a supposed to be a serious thread or one of those tongue-in-cheek types.

 

Butknuckle,

 

All I can say is I have found myself on the Latin American server a few times.  Let us just say that you really don't have to look at the server population to know you aren't on the Chicago server farm.  Just saying...

 

First time on that server and I thought I accidentally joined in on the 'Testing Grounds' - or, whatever it is called.  I had some ducklings follow me around (I really feel sorry for you good players now), others bolt right up the middle, and some find a good kill box or two (not that they were setting the box, rather they were getting in it).  Chat did not help.  There was Macho Determination.  It was different. 

 

However, I've heard the Euros think the same of us :-)



Buttknuckle #18 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 18:28

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View PostBoghie, on Jun 10 2018 - 17:15, said:

 

Butknuckle,

 

All I can say is I have found myself on the Latin American server a few times.  Let us just say that you really don't have to look at the server population to know you aren't on the Chicago server farm.  Just saying...

 

First time on that server and I thought I accidentally joined in on the 'Testing Grounds' - or, whatever it is called.  I had some ducklings follow me around (I really feel sorry for you good players now), others bolt right up the middle, and some find a good kill box or two (not that they were setting the box, rather they were getting in it).  Chat did not help.  There was Macho Determination.  It was different. 

 

However, I've heard the Euros think the same of us :-)

 

So its a tongue-in-cheek type. Good. Was worried that someone would actually think that they managed to play a game where the other 14 players on his team were all bots somehow programed to mimic his movements. You know, because that is totally preposterous.

cocobabygirl #19 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 16:11

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So Buttknuckle I find that this is a TEAM game and the attitude of most players are to be the best, the highest win rate.most kills,best damage etc.... Why do players reroll?  I think it's to make a better looking win rate.  When I played that mourning the bots seemed to be all equal and played as a team not as a individual stat padder or unicum.  I just stated that because I am not the greatest individual player but trying to do what is expected of me in the tank I selected a that time for the TEAM win.  I guess I played with a lot of great individual players that didn't mind playing as a team.  They tried to direct me and others to do the best for the team rather than themselves.  I personally would rather play on a team that tries to win rather than a team of great individual selfish players.  Besides it's just a game so if I lose I just hit the battle button again.  That may not be good for your record, but remember there's always someone better.

Pipinghot #20 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 20:56

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View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 11 2018 - 10:11, said:

So Buttknuckle I find that this is a TEAM game

Your heart is in the right place but you're missing a lot of the big picture.

 

This is not truly a "TEAM" game, it's sort-of-but-not-completely-a-team-game. It's "teamish" or "team adjacent" but that's as far as it goes. They are called "Random" battles for a reason, because 15 people are randomly thrown together in a big, disorganized pile, they have 30 seconds to get ready, and they they're supposed to do the best they can to win a battle under those conditions. If you want true TEAM gameplay you need to do skirmishes or Clan Wars - in those battle modes people practice together, they train together, and they do everything they can to work as a TEAM so they can win battles.

 

But in Random battles you don't have all that, what you have is 30 seconds to get ready for a battle that will be mostly chaos with occasional bits of teamwork sprinkled in. A true description of Random battles is "mutual self interest", not "teams". You want to win, the other 14 people on your team want to win, but there is almost never agreement on how to achieve a team win. And since these are not True Teams(tm) there's no one who can make the call and tell everyone what they should do.

 

Random battles are not based on true teamwork, they are based on temporary cooperation between people who have a mutual self interest, and that means that the only way to measure which people are good teammates is to look at the results they get from their battles.

View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 11 2018 - 10:11, said:

and the attitude of most players are to be the best, the highest win rate.most kills,best damage etc...

The players with the best personal stats also have the best win rates - which means those players are doing the most for their teams, because whatever it is they're doing is helping their teams win more often. Those "stat padders" are helping your teams win more often, even though you don't like them. When you see a purple player who does half of the damage on your team, they are not being selfish, they are being a really great teammate, because if they didn't do all that damage there's a big chance that no one else would either. You don't win battles by holding the door open for other people and waiting for them to take their turn to shoot, you win battles by taking advantage of every opportunity to do damage yourself and getting as many kills as you can.

 

A lot of people would respond by saying, "What about light tanks, they're supposed to be scouts and spotters?" The reality is that players who do more damage in light tanks also win more battles in light tanks. Obviously they should do a lot of spotting, but the art of playing a light tank means knowing when to spot and when to do damage, and the good players do more damage in light tanks than the bad players.

 

So the players who do the most damage (and especially the players who do a lot of damage early in the battle when it matters the most) are the players who are doing the most to help their teams, and as a result those players have the best stats and the best win rates. Now this doesn't mean "yolo" players. People who run out like boneheads, get a few spots and a little bit of early damage are not helping their teams, in fact they are actively hurting their teams even though they don't understand it. There are many people (just so many people) who "valiantly sacrifice" themselves "for their team" when really they're just being dumb, and it's hard to teach them differently. Doing damage at the right time and staying alive for as long as you're needed, and only sacrificing your tank when it will truly matters, that's what good teamwork looks like. It's misguided to complain about people who try to "be the best, the highest win rate.most kills,best damage etc." because those are the exact people who are carrying your teams to victory the most often.

 

The basic rule is: 'Damage wins games'.    And doing early damage while surviving until later in the battle wins game even more often.

View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 11 2018 - 10:11, said:

Why do players reroll?

Because they're cowardly and don't want people to see their real stats, but really there was no reason to bring them up, rerolls are a completely different discussion.

View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 11 2018 - 10:11, said:

When I played that mourning the bots seemed to be all equal and played as a team not as a individual stat padder or unicum.
Those were not "bots", what that really means is that you were just playing with a bunch of bad & average players without any really good players being present. That's not bots, that just means the really good players were not online, it doesn't mean anything about "bots".

View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 11 2018 - 10:11, said:

I just stated that because I am not the greatest individual player but trying to do what is expected of me in the tank I selected a that time for the TEAM win.

A win is a win, it doesn't matter whether it's your personal definition of a "TEAM win" or winning in a way that you don't like. Each and every time that someone carries your team to victory they are accomplishing a "TEAM win" and it benefits you too. What you're talking about can be nice, there's a cool feeling you get when you see that all 15 players on your team contributed pretty closely to each other, it feels good when you see that everyone on your team did some damage, the kills were spread out fairly evenly, and everyone did a decent job of contributing to the team. The problem is that you can't count on that happening, and it doesn't help your teams if you're only looking for battles like this, because they're rare. You should enjoy and appreciate them when they happen, but if that's you idea of being the only "right" way to win a battle then you're going down the wrong path.

 

In most of the battles you have ever played the battle is won or lost by the top 3-5 players on each team. If the top 3-5 players on Team A perform better than the top 3-5 players on Team B, then Team A wins. In many, many battles the top 3-5 players do as much damage and get as many kills as the bottom 10-12 players combined, and very often the bottom 3-5 players did almost nothing. If you are playing every battle thinking that your best chance of winning is to make sure that everyone on the team gets a fair chance for damage and kills then your playing experience will never improve, you will constantly be disappointed by "individual stat padders" who are carrying your teams and you'll only rarely get an opportunity to see battles in which everyone does a fair share of the winning.

 

Random battles have their own logic, their own feel, their own flow, and you're not going to be able to change that with wishful thinking. If you want true "TEAM" battles then join a clan for Skirmishes & Clan Wars.

View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 11 2018 - 10:11, said:

I guess I played with a lot of great individual players that didn't mind playing as a team.  They tried to direct me and others to do the best for the team rather than themselves.

That's harder than you think, it's less helpful than you think, and most people don't listen anyway.

 

I'm not a good player anymore, I'm only average nowadays because I've become a super-casual player, but back when I was good people still didn't listen, offering helpful comments was usually a waste of time. You can tell people what they should do until you're blue in the face, and even if you're very careful about how you communicate half of them will just ignore you or tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Here's what is not obvious from your point of view - every time a good player stops playing long enough to type communications to their team they are taking the risk of a missed opportunity, and those missed opportunities can lose battles. It is frequently the case (not always, but frequently) that when a good player takes takes time to chat with their team they are letting their team down and allowing a loss to happen, because it's more important for that good player to be focused on doing damage and taking out opposing tanks.

 

When I was a good player (in the past) I used to keep a notepad file open with a bunch of pre-made strategies and comments. While my tank was reloading I could toggle to the notepad file, copy a comment, toggle back and paste that comment into chat - but even doing that took my eyes off of the battle, so most of my pre-made comments were only used during the 30 seconds before the battle started. Copy, paste, hope that people get it, and then start playing. If people argued with me I'd usually ignore them, or maybe try to counter them with a single sentence, but that's it, because in a game that lasts from 2-15 minutes every second matters (especially at the beginning of the battle).

 

Discussing tactics (or even worse wasting time arguing with people) during a battle is a great way to throw away that battle and give the win to the opposing team. There simply isn't time for much chatting during a battle. The best time for a good player to help their team with chat is if they make a mistake and die early, and even that is a toss of the dice. Most people will ignore you if you died before them so you're basically wasting your time trying to help, but at least there is a chance to be helpful and the time spent typing is not hurting your chances of carrying the battle.

View Postcocobabygirl, on Jun 11 2018 - 10:11, said:

I personally would rather play on a team that tries to win rather than a team of great individual selfish players.

I'm sorry for this, but I have to tell you that your idea of teamwork in Random battles is incorrect. Trying to win "as a team" does not mean making sure everyone on the team has an equal opportunity to contribute, or to spend time talking to each other a bunch. The best way to help your team win is by doing as much damage and getting as many kills as you can, and if you can also communicate with teammates and help them play better that's icing on the cake. But if you don't have the cake the icing doesn't matter. A good cake with icing is delicious, but a plate full of icing just makes you sick.

 

Damage + kills = cake.

Communication and 'teamwork' = icing.

 

The best way for you to help your teams is to learn how do do as much damage as possible without needing other people to tell you want to do, because this is not a True Team game. You need to teach yourself how to perform better, so that you can help your teams more, it is not the job of any other player to hand you a plate full of 'teamwork' on a silver platter, it's your job to roll up your sleeves and be a better, more useful teammate without needing people to tell you what to do. And that means you need to become a "stat padder", you need to start thinking about doing as much damage as you can even if the rest of your team is not doing anything useful. You can't become a better player by expecting Random strangers to be "good teammates", but you can become the good teammate that they need by improving your skills, and then you can be that leader you're looking for.

 

Lead yourself and others will follow.






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