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Stop the Seal Clubbing (Get more people to play)


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RushBayou #21 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 09:01

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i believe what the game needs is less MM choice in my games... ie ... i can chose my tank but why not the map i play? ... or how about wrkn hard to unlock a tank and then its discontinued... sigh... or worse yet the MM places tankers to bring down some ppls stats. wut about fair MM? ive developed a hate for the game just on that. i no longer spend money or play the way i want to cuz of dat...

... and ya... tier 1-3 or under 30 day player should not be in with the rest of us. its frustrating to the teams ne ways. i do enjoy playing some of the tier 4 arti but hard to pen many higher tier tanks and have such a short range. and to get almost no xp or ching... another foopah



Christojojo #22 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 12:41

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View PostGunadie, on Jun 10 2018 - 00:12, said:

 

According to you!

I agree with the gist of this.

War Shaming allows the upper tier games to be ruined by inexperienced players in tier 8 tanks so whats the difference?

Imo WG has ruined the spirit and essence of what this game was for the sake of cash income

They could have kept this game extremely challenging and highly rewarding but choose to easy button it for the sake of capital gain and now this is the result.

We have experienced players choosing to play anywhere they want the same as we have inexperienced players playing where they choose.

I have discussed and stated how this was to the games determent numerous times and the most common retort was "everyone has the right to play where they want"!

You reap what you sow!

 

There is a difference between a player is playing where he wants and seal clubbing. The difference is the player that is seal clubbing is doing so not to enjoy the game but to ruin it for others and thus ruining the game for all. A seal clubber that plays just the lower games is mostly a troll with lower self esteem, equivalent to the backyard bully that will beat everybody  up that he is absolutely positive he can win against. The guy that ventures down to the lower tiers without making a special tank with great skills/perks and excessive equipment that only the best of the best have unlocked so far is trying to play for fun. The game used to have a natural protection against seal clubbers back in the day and that was just the overwhelming numbers of new players made sure many games were just low level inexperienced players versus the same. Now the game doesn't have the luxury many players have at least least the lines they like playing or at least the lines that are know to give them the best advantages  to win plus the 3 skills plus if they play in p clans enough bonds of improved equipment.

Firemoth #23 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 13:53

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View PostChristojojo, on Jun 10 2018 - 00:40, said:

 

Seal clubbing does harm to this gaming community. The game is uneven and has hidden favor for experienced and talented players (improved equipment). The other games you mentioned are definitely the rage and are more popular because players want to check out  this generations version of COD and BF and  CS..

ofc its going to be uneven, its a 7 year old game with pvp elements. thats akin to saying your going to start to play PVP WoW with store equips and getting your [edited]handed to you by some 10+ year vet (i dont know if that is how WoW pvp works?)

 

if a brand new player is going to experience getting seal clubbed, how will he even know? newbies dont have XVM and most newbies  just want to drive around in tanks and pew pew at 50kmph. i know i did when i started. sure you might get invisitanked by some guy hiding in a bush, but so what? they are not here to debate the ideology of bush camping, they are just going to leave game, click on another tank in the garage and drop into another battle. after a while maybe they become the bush camper and they camp someone else whos yoloing around.\

 

if in your scenario they have a '30 day' period of sheltering, then they still end up playing tier 5 with far more experienced players, then what? their equipment will still suck and they are still going to get completely destroyed. all it does is make games harder to find for newbies cause you can only be grouped with other 30day newbies, which increases queue times and probably leads to people not spending enough time driving around pewpewing and wondering if they can spend their time else where. low tier MM is already garbage and takes a long time. 

 

finally, maybe you do get seal clubbed by player X. you then see player X again next game, and you get clubbed again, maybe you think to yourself 'hey this player is good, maybe i can ask him for some advice on how to improve'. maybe player X helps you out and you have a positive experience from it. 



Christojojo #24 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 17:32

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View PostFiremoth, on Jun 10 2018 - 07:53, said:

ofc its going to be uneven, its a 7 year old game with pvp elements. thats akin to saying your going to start to play PVP WoW with store equips and getting your [edited]handed to you by some 10+ year vet (i dont know if that is how WoW pvp works?)

 

if a brand new player is going to experience getting seal clubbed, how will he even know? newbies dont have XVM and most newbies  just want to drive around in tanks and pew pew at 50kmph. i know i did when i started. sure you might get invisitanked by some guy hiding in a bush, but so what? they are not here to debate the ideology of bush camping, they are just going to leave game, click on another tank in the garage and drop into another battle. after a while maybe they become the bush camper and they camp someone else whos yoloing around.\

 

if in your scenario they have a '30 day' period of sheltering, then they still end up playing tier 5 with far more experienced players, then what? their equipment will still suck and they are still going to get completely destroyed. all it does is make games harder to find for newbies cause you can only be grouped with other 30day newbies, which increases queue times and probably leads to people not spending enough time driving around pewpewing and wondering if they can spend their time else where. low tier MM is already garbage and takes a long time. 

 

finally, maybe you do get seal clubbed by player X. you then see player X again next game, and you get clubbed again, maybe you think to yourself 'hey this player is good, maybe i can ask him for some advice on how to improve'. maybe player X helps you out and you have a positive experience from it.

 

You miss my point. I am saying giving you even more favor to win is a bad and illogical way to keep the new players playing. The game is broken with too many broken self centered players to ever make it new player friendly. Most better players aren't that helpful to new players. Strike that, the better players tend to be hostile and antisocial to new players and many new players tend to reject offers from experienced players. I know how to play the game. I can even call a game in a pinch and win it. My problems are vision and age, but I still know how to play though my stats don't show it. I would help  them and at times some let me. Others though are stat [edited]and they will only follow those that they see with streams.



Gunadie #25 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 18:00

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View PostChristojojo, on Jun 10 2018 - 03:41, said:

 

There is a difference between a player is playing where he wants and seal clubbing. The difference is the player that is seal clubbing is doing so not to enjoy the game but to ruin it for others and thus ruining the game for all. A seal clubber that plays just the lower games is mostly a troll with lower self esteem, equivalent to the backyard bully that will beat everybody  up that he is absolutely positive he can win against. The guy that ventures down to the lower tiers without making a special tank with great skills/perks and excessive equipment that only the best of the best have unlocked so far is trying to play for fun. The game used to have a natural protection against seal clubbers back in the day and that was just the overwhelming numbers of new players made sure many games were just low level inexperienced players versus the same. Now the game doesn't have the luxury many players have at least least the lines they like playing or at least the lines that are know to give them the best advantages  to win plus the 3 skills plus if they play in p clans enough bonds of improved equipment.

 

Anyone that joins at a low tier "just to ruin it for others" will do so at any tier!

So you believe that a player that plays low tiers does it because they have emotional and mental issues?

This is narrow minded thinking! 

When there are several "seasoned" Wot veterans playing low tier games, it doesn't equate to only inexperienced players playing against experienced.

All tiers have merit and are fun to play.

I'm a firm believer that upper tier game play should be the reward for development and experience with some sort of barrier a player needs to cross in order to attain the right to play

This would make the game very interesting and rewarding like it was 5 or 6 years ago.

But unfortunately, this is not the case and what you are attempting is what I tried to do in the past... And that was/is to make the game better.

Unfortunately, WG does not seem to care what you or I think is in the best interest of the game and appears to have a different agenda..

........MONEY!

The forums and all the rest of what you see and read are all little more than a waste of time for those that contribute.

In the end, it doesn't mean a whole lot as the push for capital with premium push, via tank and triumvirates and all the other venues that 

fill their coffers, blinds them to the long term health (which is slow to effect the game)

As long as players keep buying and spending on the daily and weekly specials there is no incentive for WG to address or even look at 

some of the issues that the players feel are important and need to be dealt with.

My suggestion is to just enjoy yourself and not get caught up in what you cannot change as it is more than apparent that your effort(s) is just a waste of time to only those that can make the change...

They don't listen and they don't care, and if they do, they seldom show it!

Imo, you're better off spending your time playing the game on the battlefield than playing the game in the forums.

 



pR1mal_ #26 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 18:46

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Speaking for myself I play a lot of T3 vehicles because A)  T3 is the last bastion of 5/10 MM,  B) I hate 3/5/7 MM,  and C) in my T3's vehicles I face T4 vehicles 95% of the time.

 

So in short,  I derive absolutely no pleasure clubbing tanks 2 tiers lower due to 3/5/7 MM and I hate being an XP Piñata for tanks 2 tiers higher due to 3/5/7 MM.  

 

Also,  I view the tiers as generations of tank evolution.    I like playing the early PZ's.

 

Honestly though,   it's 2018 and there is such a wealth of information out there for anyone who wants to educate themselves.   You can watch a Youtuber and learn while doing the dishes,  or whatever.   I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic,  but a gamer has to have that fire inside.

 

I think you have a reasonable point regarding stacked crews and consumables in the shallow end of the pool.   /not using that term as a term of derision.


Edited by pR1mal_, Jun 10 2018 - 18:55.


Gunadie #27 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 19:30

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View PostpR1mal_, on Jun 10 2018 - 09:46, said:

Speaking for myself I play a lot of T3 vehicles because A)  T3 is the last bastion of 5/10 MM,  B) I hate 3/5/7 MM,  and C) in my T3's vehicles I face T4 vehicles 95% of the time.

 

So in short,  I derive absolutely no pleasure clubbing tanks 2 tiers lower due to 3/5/7 MM and I hate being an XP Piñata for tanks 2 tiers higher due to 3/5/7 MM.  

 

Also,  I view the tiers as generations of tank evolution.    I like playing the early PZ's.

 

Honestly though,   it's 2018 and there is such a wealth of information out there for anyone who wants to educate themselves.   You can watch a Youtuber and learn while doing the dishes,  or whatever.   I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic,  but a gamer has to have that fire inside.

 

I think you have a reasonable point regarding stacked crews and consumables in the shallow end of the pool.   /not using that term as a term of derision.

 

The difference in how the low tier tanks play is more damaging, imo, than who is commanding them.

Removing the different types of rounds would be a start.

Some same tier tanks cannot pen others from any side or angle, as well. (or just barely) 

There are several issues that the game has right from the start that new players cant easily figure out without a certain level of dismay and frustration.

An in depth training ground may help new players acclimatize but the issues are deeper than that and stacked crews and consumables are just scratching the surface.

Has it occurred to some that WG may intentionally do this to entice and encourage newbs to rationalize the merits of purchasing premium accounts tanks etc.

What may seem as an over-sight or flaw could actually be a well intended and crafted design to promote capital



pepe_trueno #28 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 23:24

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while profesional sealclubber contribute to making bigginers rage quit lets not belive they are the main reason for that to happend.

 

first thing to note is the godawfull balance of those tiers, some tanks are so bad not even a unicum will be able to do much in them, now imagin mr noob who has no idea taking the amx 40 route or the british medium mks, thats one way ticket to hell

 

second thing are gold rounds, why lower tiers need them again? newcomers wont be able to aford them at all and is not like the tanks over there have uber armor. In the end gold rounds in those tiers end being an advantage only seasoned players can use.

 

equipment: just like gold rounds their cost is ridiculous at those tiers

 

at least to me the best way to improve low tier experience would be to apply the folowing changes

-remove stat tracking for tanks tier 1 to 4 

-remove gold rounds for tanks tier 1 to 4

+-1MM for tiers   1 to 4

-make low tier vertion  equipment and sell them at a more reasonable price like 10k-20k silver

-trhow a bone to all those tanks players wont touch with a 5 meters pole, there is a reason why they are avoided like the plague :sceptic:

  

 



dunniteowl #29 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 23:43

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Jun 09 2018 - 07:11, said:

 

16k battles is hardly "new", not even close.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe he was taking on the 'persona' of a new player with that sentence, there, George.

Christojojo #30 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 00:24

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View PostGunadie, on Jun 10 2018 - 12:00, said:

 

Anyone that joins at a low tier "just to ruin it for others" will do so at any tier!

So you believe that a player that plays low tiers does it because they have emotional and mental issues?

This is narrow minded thinking! 

When there are several "seasoned" Wot veterans playing low tier games, it doesn't equate to only inexperienced players playing against experienced.

All tiers have merit and are fun to play.

I'm a firm believer that upper tier game play should be the reward for development and experience with some sort of barrier a player needs to cross in order to attain the right to play

This would make the game very interesting and rewarding like it was 5 or 6 years ago.

But unfortunately, this is not the case and what you are attempting is what I tried to do in the past... And that was/is to make the game better.

Unfortunately, WG does not seem to care what you or I think is in the best interest of the game and appears to have a different agenda..

........MONEY!

The forums and all the rest of what you see and read are all little more than a waste of time for those that contribute.

In the end, it doesn't mean a whole lot as the push for capital with premium push, via tank and triumvirates and all the other venues that 

fill their coffers, blinds them to the long term health (which is slow to effect the game)

As long as players keep buying and spending on the daily and weekly specials there is no incentive for WG to address or even look at 

some of the issues that the players feel are important and need to be dealt with.

My suggestion is to just enjoy yourself and not get caught up in what you cannot change as it is more than apparent that your effort(s) is just a waste of time to only those that can make the change...

They don't listen and they don't care, and if they do, they seldom show it!

Imo, you're better off spending your time playing the game on the battlefield than playing the game in the forums.

 

 

Wow you really are  projecting yourself into my statements in the most liberal of ways. I did not say or imply a vast majority of what you said. I am sorry you are having a bad day and feel the  need to argue like this.

Quikzdraw #31 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 06:00

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.

Edited by Quikzdraw, Jun 11 2018 - 07:27.


Quikzdraw #32 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 07:25

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View PostGeorgePreddy, on Jun 09 2018 - 08:11, said:

 

16k battles is hardly "new", not even close.

 

 

 

 

 

 



TybeeMutt #33 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 14:12

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I honestly believe the way to retain the player base is expanding on game modes. Allowing people to progress in the game economy while not needing to rely on pub matches.

 

A shooting gallery mode that can allow you to build your gun handling skills.

 

Racing Mode to allow people interested in not just racing others but racing time trials. Bronze if you get a certain time on a circuit, silver, and Gold adjusted as well. Getting anything below that won't guarantee you make coin.

 

A sneak to the cap mode. You're in a light tank and must manage to make it past the WoT bot tanks without being spotted. Success gets a nice pay out, failure means starting over. Call it a Pac-Man styled approach to the game.

 

Some modes aren't the best but they do have a seasonal aspect that makes them more fun. Soccer for example pulls players to the game but doesn't keep them playing.

 

Another game mode I would like to see is a simple engine for map tactics. You pick 5 tanks from your garage of equal tier. You then play a "Risk" styled game of making it across a map. Doing so in turn based mechanics you pick which tank advances and to what parts of the map. You both have to attack the enemy cap and defend yours. This could easily make some extra credits based on RNG and tiers.

 

These game modes are all single player and potentially good ways of "helping" people through the WoT economy. It should increase the size of the player base and potentially generate more interest in the WG platform.



OlTanker #34 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 15:20

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Until the debacle of version 1.0 was dumped on us I ignored tier 2 and 3 and just played tier 5 and up. after finding out no matter what I did, the first battle was ALWAYS a lagged start, and after the last micro patch now distorted sound and stuttering movement, I play my only tier 2 tank for the first battle. It's a throw away for me as the stuttering and sound hash is almost unplayable. Subsequent games run normally thankfully. I have been amazed at how many players with 20k to 50k battles are playing down there.

_Kradok_ #35 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 15:30

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Tier 3 is a vacation from the game.

 

Grinding advances/clan wars/campaigns/stronks can get tiresome...  People like to blow off steam.  Hell, I used to enjoy puttering in proving Grounds just to get a breather, but that's gone.  Now it's tier 3 for the entertainment.

 

GrTr, FPak, BT-SV, Sexton 1....  I've got a plethora of low tiers, and enjoy driving them for something different.



dunniteowl #36 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 15:31

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View PostChristojojo, on Jun 10 2018 - 17:24, said:

 

Wow you really are  projecting yourself into my statements in the most liberal of ways. I did not say or imply a vast majority of what you said. I am sorry you are having a bad day and feel the  need to argue like this.

 

Actually you did that very thing.  Just go back and read your OWN post.

Gunadie #37 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 17:45

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View PostChristojojo, on Jun 10 2018 - 15:24, said:

 

Wow you really are  projecting yourself into my statements in the most liberal of ways. I did not say or imply a vast majority of what you said. I am sorry you are having a bad day and feel the  need to argue like this.

 

These are your words not mine!

"A seal clubber that plays just the lower games is mostly a troll with lower self esteem, equivalent to the backyard bully that will beat everybody  up that he is absolutely positive he can win against."

And for the record I was doing anything but trying to argue.

All I was doing was portraying my own experience and thoughts of how in-effective I believe it is to elicit change in these forum from War Gaming.

No bad day at all here..but what ever..You go girl..run with it!



TrevorsT112 #38 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 21:59

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I am relatively new to the game so I can't really say that I have done any seal clubbing yet, stats say it all,  but I'm not sure I see the problem in the same way as the OP. The biggest mistake I made at the start was to try and grind in a standard tank. My advice for anyone new is to get the low tier premium tanks (light, medium) to train your crews in as soon as you can. If you can spend a good amount of time playing, even a couple of months of premium time will more then pay for itself in credits. It really does not take much time to fully equip a couple of low tier premium tanks with 1 to 2-skill crews. From there, it really boils down to the skill of the player and how determined he/she is to improve their game. I just bought my first tier VIII premium light for a trial run in the big leagues, and well, apparently I have a while to go before I'm able to make the jump from seal to seal clubber. But I am having fun and see it as just part of the challenge that makes the game interesting for me.

Christojojo #39 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 22:00

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View PostGunadie, on Jun 11 2018 - 11:45, said:

 

These are your words not mine!

"A seal clubber that plays just the lower games is mostly a troll with lower self esteem, equivalent to the backyard bully that will beat everybody  up that he is absolutely positive he can win against."

And for the record I was doing anything but trying to argue.

All I was doing was portraying my own experience and thoughts of how in-effective I believe it is to elicit change in these forum from War Gaming.

No bad day at all here..but what ever..You go girl..run with it!

 

You win

Quikzdraw #40 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 05:43

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Tom71, I applaud you. That is all he is, A TROLL.  If you saw what he looked like in the real life, he looks like a troll. His life is getting on the forums and trying to shoot someone down who has a legitimate complaint and or frustration. Most of the time he doesn't even troll the topic , he just trolls. Again 2 thumbs up have a great day.




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