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The hill in Himmelsdorf


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MissCreant #1 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 19:51

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After playing 500-ish missions I am convinced that, for beginner tiers, taking the hill in Himmelsdorf is very important.

 

But not for the reasons you think...

 

I think it is important because if you can get a sizable number of people to go with you to the hill, those people are out of the picture for about a minute.

 

Bad you say?  NO!  This means they CANNOT DIE STUPIDLY in the first minute!

 

In addition, the remaining tanks that do not take hill have less of a pack mentality and so are a little less likely to die stupidly in the first minute.  The opposite of the above two applies to the enemy team assuming they don't really try to take hill.

 

This probably doesn't apply to higher tiers.  I do not know as the highest tier I have played is IV.

 

Thoughts?



The_Illusive_Man #2 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 20:02

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The hill is irrelevant in all tiers. Most games are won by speed.

 

Watch this:

 



TsarCidron #3 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 20:04

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Hill on Himmelsdorf..  much has been written.

 

Is it vital to actually take it? No.   But, you do want to contest it adequately.  Sufficiently so that the red tanks dont come racing into your back sides, full health, and now you are fighting on two fronts (what you went after, and what came up behind you).    Contest that hill.  Delay any red push from there.  Damage the red tanks for easier kills if/when they get to your teams rear or flanks.  



da_Rock002 #4 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 20:07

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View PostMissCreant, on Jun 10 2018 - 13:51, said:

After playing 500-ish missions I am convinced that, for beginner tiers, taking the hill in Himmelsdorf is very important.

 

But not for the reasons you think...

 

I think it is important because if you can get a sizable number of people to go with you to the hill, those people are out of the picture for about a minute.

 

Bad you say?  NO!  This means they CANNOT DIE STUPIDLY in the first minute!

 

In addition, the remaining tanks that do not take hill have less of a pack mentality and so are a little less likely to die stupidly in the first minute.  The opposite of the above two applies to the enemy team assuming they don't really try to take hill.

 

This probably doesn't apply to higher tiers.  I do not know as the highest tier I have played is IV.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

You've got something worthwhile there.   For exactly the reason you stated.


 

Have you noticed the great reputation the KV-1 Russian heavy tank has and that it's often recommended for newbies?    It's one of the first actual heavies they encounter.   And it's slow.   Same thing you mention for the hill.    It keeps the player from yolo'ing more often than not.  



dunniteowl #5 Posted Jun 10 2018 - 21:09

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View PostMissCreant, on Jun 10 2018 - 12:51, said:

After playing 500-ish missions I am convinced that, for beginner tiers, taking the hill in Himmelsdorf is very important.

 

But not for the reasons you think...

 

I think it is important because if you can get a sizable number of people to go with you to the hill, those people are out of the picture for about a minute.

 

Bad you say?  NO!  This means they CANNOT DIE STUPIDLY in the first minute!

 

In addition, the remaining tanks that do not take hill have less of a pack mentality and so are a little less likely to die stupidly in the first minute.  The opposite of the above two applies to the enemy team assuming they don't really try to take hill.

 

This probably doesn't apply to higher tiers.  I do not know as the highest tier I have played is IV.

 

Thoughts?

 

The Hill in Himmelsdorf is a mixed bag.  Number of reasons, in my view.

 

Those that go to hill can die pretty stupidly in the first few minutes of the game as well.  The real reason the hill can be important is because, if left completely unchecked, you're literally asking to get flanked.  Depending on the type of battle (encounter/assault) the hill's overall importance changes markedly.  Properly done, you could stage two or three units at the base of the north west roads and hold the road coming down from the hill decently well against a concerted assault of four to five units all other things being relatively equal.  This is actually harder to do from the top of the hill where said two or three units would be clustered in one tight spot that can be overrun easily from two directions on the hill.

 

That doesn't mean anyone will do that.  Most players are in it to brawl and get some shots in, which means patience is not their virtue, even if it is one.  My highest tier on Himmelsdorf was VIII and it seemed to me that the hill was completely ignored for the most part, though, again, this was an assault match, so the cap circle is in the rail yards, making the hill pretty unimportant for the end game.

 

Good question, OP



3nr0n #6 Posted Jun 11 2018 - 23:37

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The hill can be looked at like the valley in Lakeville, you have to protect it but it's not always the winning option.

Worland #7 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 13:17

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In standard mode, two bases, the hill is more important. Not necessary, but gives you vision over both bases. Otherwise, it's not very important. In fact, you're fairly vulnerable up there now days compared to the hill in the old days.

TrevorsT112 #8 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 14:23

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As a newish player, I am still learning how to correctly apply strategy, so have learnt a little here. But what I have noticed is that whenever my team wins the hill, we almost invariably win the match, whenever we don't, the opposite happens. I personally try to avoid it if possible because more often then not, I find myself getting trapped there.  

4TankersAndDog #9 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 15:16

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Boxhawk #10 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 18:27

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View PostMissCreant, on Jun 10 2018 - 13:51, said:

After playing 500-ish missions I am convinced that, for beginner tiers, taking the hill in Himmelsdorf is very important.

 

But not for the reasons you think...

 

I think it is important because if you can get a sizable number of people to go with you to the hill, those people are out of the picture for about a minute.

 

Bad you say?  NO!  This means they CANNOT DIE STUPIDLY in the first minute!

 

In addition, the remaining tanks that do not take hill have less of a pack mentality and so are a little less likely to die stupidly in the first minute.  The opposite of the above two applies to the enemy team assuming they don't really try to take hill.

 

This probably doesn't apply to higher tiers.  I do not know as the highest tier I have played is IV.

 

Thoughts?

 

I like the cut of your jib!

 

I'm guessing that most of the posters here didn't even bother to read your post, only the headline.



MissCreant #11 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 21:37

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View PostBoxhawk, on Jun 12 2018 - 18:27, said:

 

I like the cut of your jib!

 

I'm guessing that most of the posters here didn't even bother to read your post, only the headline.

 

I have noticed that many contributors to this forum seem more...well...reading/reading comprehension-challenged than other forums I participate in.

 

However, they try in their own way and that means something.

 

Bless their hearts.



mackinawjim45 #12 Posted Aug 06 2018 - 13:57

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Someone has to go hill every game, doesn't matter if it's a single Lol tractor, you can't just leave the hill unattended.

 

If your single Lol tractor spots a crew, the rest of your team better adjust.

 

Same on all maps, you can't leave a flank, you will get rolled every time.



xtc4 #13 Posted Aug 06 2018 - 15:33

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View Post4TankersAndDog, on Jun 12 2018 - 09:16, said:

 

Thanks for posting. If I understand this, you go hill all of the time. You looked at 19 of your matches, and 15 times the winner of the hill won the match.

 

While this sample is interesting, it is difficult to glean much meaning because (1) 19 matches is statistically too small of a sample and (2) It is not a random sample, but a sample where an excellent player is in every match, that player is driving a fast tank, and that player goes hill every match.

 

In the other posted video, you have lemmingrush, an excellent player who never goes hill and feels like he has success -- although, to be sure, he doesn't provide numbers like you. You will note an interesting part of his video where he talks about the meta. He thinks that hill used to be better when less players went there, and he could push quickly through it. Now he thinks that more players are going hill and that it tends to get stalemated. I have seen other excellent players -- Zeven, for example -- who are also anti-hill.

 

My  impression is that hill is a "mixed bag," as an earlier poster stated. The dynamics of the hill-bottom interplay dictate that the area that gets less bogged down will probably be the decisive area. So you should probably go where you think that you won't get bogged down. And whether that area is hill or bottom can change depending on your skill level, your tank, and where everyone else is going.  Many excellent players who are capable of pushing go bottom because they don't want to be out of the battle for extended travel time; their early bottom push tends to make bottom  the decisive area. Personally, I tend to go bottom whenever I can, but will go hill on occasion when the circumstances suggest that I will be stalemated at the bottom.

 

I am certainly open to more evidence that hill is decisive.



Evil_Putin #14 Posted Aug 06 2018 - 20:43

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Like any other map with hill, it's not critical in coordinated play when you can quickly apprehend the rest of the map or have your team cohesively turn around and/or relocate to avoid getting surrounded. In pubs, however, you have little control over your team, so not taking hill 90% of the time means you'll have heavy enemy forces roll into your back yard because the pubbies will not push other parts even tho there is no enemy preventing them and will just sit waiting to get surrounded. 




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