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Map Mondays: Mines

Map Mondays Map guide Mines

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ThePigSheFlies #21 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 16:07

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uh, not sure what happened to this post.  it was quite a bit longer.  for those suggesting wargaming doesn't have 'any good players' - there's a couple in wgs-a (old seattle office?) as well as this guy that I have dynamic platooned with.  he's been in a number of 'good' clans over the years, and moved from wga-a to the LATM side of the house a bit ago.

 

http://wotlabs.net/n.../Algray_Solipso

 

I wish there was a way he could keep his job, stream educational content AND provide unfettered, honest opinions on things like map design, game balance, etc...  but, given how many community contributors that tried to do just that, and have been removed from the program, I guess that's just a 'wish' that will remain a 'wish'

 


Edited by ThePigSheFlies, Jun 12 2018 - 16:12.


DomoSapien #22 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 16:48

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View Postxtc4, on Jun 12 2018 - 08:50, said:

Thanks, Domo. This may be the best guide yet. I'd only emphasize that, from the South, the C9 flanking position seems underused. It gives the South a useful position to shoot flanks and rears, just like the North has Island. In fact, I would argue that C9 for South is a more reliable position than Island for North. C9 is rarely contested, and you can get there pretty safely at the beginning of the match if you have even mediocre speed. But players are well-aware of the Island flanking position, and you generally have a difficult fight to even get there.

 

Also, from the north, I like getting tucked into that pocket at E4 and shooting towards the brawl and hill. It is especially dominant in a lower- or mid-tier battle, where the players aren't as aware. You are basically helping the hill brawl, but without the all-or-nothing risk of an immediate rush.

Great points! Hope you don't mind I snagged your tips and added them to my guide :) 
I had a traumatic experience around C9 during the "Open Fire!" finals in Cyprus, so I definitely don't utilize that position as much as I should. Definitely should have grabbed some screenshots of that position, in retrospect. 

View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 12 2018 - 09:07, said:

...this guy that I have dynamic platooned with.  he's been in a number of 'good' clans over the years, and moved from wga-a to the LATM side of the house a bit ago.

 

http://wotlabs.net/n.../Algray_Solipso

 Algray is amazing. Not only is he an excellent player, he's one of the most knowledgeable and friendly people we have in CS. I can't say enough good things about him.



Cajun_ #23 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 16:54

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View PostDomoSapien, on Jun 12 2018 - 01:45, said:

Hey Tankers,


Apart from the current issues, I have returned from my trip to Europe and Map Mondays is back on schedule! In glorious 4K resolution. The screenshots are rather large, so I apologize for the sizeable downloads but these should be easier to read than their 1080p counterparts.
Previous Map Mondays guide: Frontline - Road to Glory
Map Mondays Master List


 

This week's map is Mines!

Fire up the video for a scenic tour of the Balkan countryside, and channel your inner Slav while listening to this majestic orchestral score while you read along below.

 

Special shoutout to Cajun_ for the stratsketch maps and the following notes:

STRATEGY
FIRING LANES

 

Mines is a North-South map, with the typical split of positioning orienting itself diagonally, more of the western flank being accessible to the North and more of the Eastern town being accessible to the South. Typically featuring an explosive start, a bit of a lull towards the middle of the battle with poking and prodding to control the central hill.

 

The West Flank:
This flank offers a bit more cover and safe sniping positions for the North-spawning team; a bold push by this team can allow lights and fast mediums to take advantageous sniping positions and land shells in the rear and sides of enemy heavies pushing middle, through some gaps in the rocks. Both teams on this flank must be hyper-aware of hidden TD's lurking near spawn, as one can quickly find their hitpoints reduced to nothing, sometimes in a split-second. It is important to ensure coverage of this flank without over-committing resources that would better be utilized elsewhere. If you are finding yourself waiting for half your team to get wiped out before firing at anything from this flank, consider relocating early next time.

EXPAND:

 

The Middle Flank:
I'm inclined to agree with Cajun_'s assessment: The middle flank is one of the most important on this map, and it often makes or breaks the game for either team. Control of this zone is vital in the early game: If you have the mobility, plan to either rush up the hill or rush up to just before the middle rock near the hill. You will have the opportunity to tag some enemies in the flank while they rush up to the top - and often a well-placed track shot will result in a completely-melted enemy health bar before they can get their tracks back up and resume their climb. Heavies should plan to stick around and play some peek-a-boo with the enemy heavies and medium on the hill, if they are not committing to one of the other heavy tank hotspots such as the Northeast corner.

 

EXPAND:

 

The East Flank:

The East Flank Typically consists of brawling in/around the town in the Northeast corner. Your heavies will tend to go to the corner of the hill/castle, where the rocks and an abandoned portion of the castle offer opportunities for sidescraping and hulldown play. The town, despite its ample buildings, is surprisingly vulnerable to crossfire. Both teams, if choosing to enter the town, will approach from a direction that is as far as possible from the enemy position. Teams spawning in the North tend to go around the Northernmost side of the city, or sit in the natural depression directly to the West of town. Vehicles with strong turrets and decent gun depression can utilize this as a defensive foothold and support any vehicles that choose to brawl directly around the corner instead. On the other hand, the Southern team has to traverse an arguably more dangerous approach to town, typically hanging as far East as possible and keeping any potential hard cover between the enemy spawn (and the hill) as sparse as it may be. Once in town, the Southern team will need to be aware of TD support from the Northern spawn, as well as supporting fire from the hill right next to them, if the North team won the hill push. If you spawned in the South, keep an eye on your map, and consider relocating sooner than later if you get pinched around the Northeast corner.
 

EXPAND


FROM THE COMMUNITY:
 

EXPAND:



Anyway, that's about all I have for Mines. I know this map can be quite confusing for some players, as I definitely struggle with it myself. Hopefully you found something up here helpful, and hopefully a bit of light reading is a nice break for everyone being affected by the ongoing server issues. Fingers crossed that hopefully we're getting close to a solution, and our hamsterwheels will all start turning again soon.



As a friendly reminder, we have some changes for Mines (and Glacier!) currently being tested. Please check out the forum thread, and make sure to leave some feedback about what you think of the new versions!

If i knew that you were going to just post my strat sketch i would have made it easier to read. I also said don't use my name. oh well and get better domo you baddy :^)

View PostGravtech, on Jun 12 2018 - 03:00, said:

 

Domo isn't the guy who is giving the notes, if you have any ability to actually read, the stratsketch and notes come from the player Cajun_

 

Since you're oh so needy for stat comparison here's his stats http://wotlabs.net/na/player/Cajun_

oh god don't link those. #bringbackwotzilla where i was 4k plus. :^) 

View PostGuido1212, on Jun 12 2018 - 12:49, said:

I liked Cajuns comment that the hill can be taken if “done right”. I understand his point but it’s not about done right. It’s just about who pushes the most the fastest. You could say that’s the done right part, but it’s really just a ridiculous rush where you hope you aren’t the one focused and that your team brought more to shot the poor idiots trying to get up there in the side. The hill needs 2 access points because it’s just terrible gameplay design to have to rush an overpowered position and either die in 45 seconds or gain a massive advantage. Too much is riding on that one move.

Its a little more calculated than that. The point of what i said was to produce the good results the majority of the time not tell people how to yolo the hill and hope that they win. 

View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 12 2018 - 13:33, said:

mines summed up:

another tiny, unimaginative map that has had no meaningful changes in 8 years other than the removal of mountain goating.  

 

you guys no doubt are still collecting feedback and statistics about front line.  credits, no tier 10s, bonds, special camo's whoooo.  know what the best thing about front line was?  a reprieve from ancient, tiny, crappy, funnel maps.  like mines, ensk, ruinberg, province, himmels and countless other trashy tiny maps.

 

stay salty my friend

DomoSapien #24 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 17:00

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View PostCajun_, on Jun 12 2018 - 09:54, said:

If i knew that you were going to just post my strat sketch i would have made it easier to read. I also said don't use my name. oh well and get better domo you baddy :^)


Did you? Gah, sorry. I just try to give credit where credit is due :)
I was going to make my own strat sketch but I already dumped so many hours into the screenshots that I was super-fried and didn't have the energy to go the extra mile. They're legible enough!

 

Gitting gud is one of those unattainable goals that I will perpetually struggle towards but never achieve :'(


Edited by DomoSapien, Jun 12 2018 - 17:01.


ThePigSheFlies #25 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 17:18

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View PostCajun_, on Jun 12 2018 - 10:54, said:

 

stay salty my friend

 

have you repurchased any tier 9s yet friend?  tier 9 > 10

 

I have to confess, I only skimmed the opening post because of how much I despise this, and like small maps, but I'm not sure if you spent any energy on conveying the importance of not only winning the hill, but KEEPING the hill. 

 

there are often times, folks that throw away the match after winning the hill, by then having their armored tanks herpaderp around to the 7/8 side of the hill, and leave their paper allies exposed/vulnerable and alone.  which is obviously bad if they (we) lost substantial amounts of hitpoints winning the hill in the first place, and/or trying to light the back TD shelf.  it's even worse now that the hill top edge terrain was terraformed into butter coated teflon encrusted pop corn boulders...  (no salt added)



Cajun_ #26 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 18:11

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View PostThePigSheFlies, on Jun 12 2018 - 16:18, said:

 

have you repurchased any tier 9s yet friend?  tier 9 > 10

 

I have to confess, I only skimmed the opening post because of how much I despise this, and like small maps, but I'm not sure if you spent any energy on conveying the importance of not only winning the hill, but KEEPING the hill. 

 

there are often times, folks that throw away the match after winning the hill, by then having their armored tanks herpaderp around to the 7/8 side of the hill, and leave their paper allies exposed/vulnerable and alone.  which is obviously bad if they (we) lost substantial amounts of hitpoints winning the hill in the first place, and/or trying to light the back TD shelf.  it's even worse now that the hill top edge terrain was terraformed into butter coated teflon encrusted pop corn boulders...  (no salt added)

 

bad players will always throw away their tanks. and yes ive been buying a few tier 9s but I'm not really playing games since i moved to the Virgin islands for work. Ill catch up with you when i get back sometime in September. or you can just come on my discord and hang out.

ThePigSheFlies #27 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 19:59

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View PostCajun_, on Jun 12 2018 - 12:11, said:

 

bad players will always throw away their tanks. and yes ive been buying a few tier 9s but I'm not really playing games since i moved to the Virgin islands for work. Ill catch up with you when i get back sometime in September. or you can just come on my discord and hang out.

 

message me your discord - I'm honestly not sure I knew you had one.  I'll be back to flying out to SoCal for work myself starting next week for unknown number of weeks, with unknown numbers of interruptions as well.

 

I don't bother with discord when I'm on site, but after hours on site, I have been known to hang out in twitch as I wind down an evening since there's rarely anything worth watching on TV.

 

 



Armadaus_Baldwin #28 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 20:02

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View PostDomoSapien, on Jun 12 2018 - 14:41, said:

 

Well, there's _Irony_who was my team captain for the company-wide internal 3v3 tournament a couple years ago. I'd say he's pretty good. Thanks to him we went to Cyprus for the finals; he also won the 1v1 tournament last year and was on the Wargaming team at Tokyo Game Show :)

 

 


Well, I wouldn't say Fallout 4 is the best example because Fallout games have always relied in part on their thriving mod community. I actually just started re-playing FO4 because of the FO76 announcement, and running it with mods this time around has definitely made it much more enjoyable. I have a foliage mod installed that makes the wasteland look beautiful and lush instead of barren; highly recommend.

I digress, though. To my knowledge we have not had a map design contest, and as much as I would absolutely love to have one that would be something that would need to be a cross-regional initiative, if it were tied to any promises of potential implementation. I'd hate for someone to put in a bunch of work designing a map, only to never see it implemented. 

I am indeed quite happy to bring it up with the team, as I personally would love to see more user-generated content implemented in the game client. The closest thing to that we've done so far would probably be the SPG view that we eventually adopted into the game client (press G to change view in artillery mode) which was originally the winning entry in a community mod contest. 

 

I actually have mixed feelings about this being moderated because although it was definitely non-constructive, I was hoping to respond to it. The reason a 1500 recent WN8 employee is giving you strategies for the game is that these strategies are directed primarily at new or returning players that haven't played the game in quite some time. The maps were re-worked in HD and there are some small differences between the old and new versions.

 

If you'd like to hop on your main and platoon with me, maybe I'll finally git gud so my WN8 is higher than 1500?

_____


Thanks for the feedback, everyone! Make sure to check out the Supertest thread for Mines & Glacier! I'm happy to forward any feedback from this thread but the best place to get the most visibility on your suggestions will be the dedicated thread.

 

LOL, touche Domo.  That wasn't directed as a jab at you, but I was referencing that as far as I know, no WGNA staff member is a Unicum. ;) I could be wrong though.

Deputy276 #29 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 14:43

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Domo: Thanks for posting this info. But I agree with others. This map belongs only at tier 1-2, just like Province does. Is WG dumping these low tier maps on us as a temporary thing until they bring back other maps? I don't see adding a ton of foliage and rock formations as any kind of "upgrade". Most of the new shrubbery is too small to use for camo, and the rock formations aren't even good for sniping or hiding behind. I never thought I'd say it, but I'd take Pilsen back over these new/old maps. :( Heck, I wish WG would bring back ALL of the old maps. Those lame reasons for removing them like "one side has an advantage over the other" make no sense. So what? Next time you play you will be on the good side and it will even out. IRL, combatants didn't get to stop a war because "one side has better map advantage than the other". Yeah, it's a game. But why make it "gamey". :teethhappy:

 


Edited by Deputy276, Jun 13 2018 - 21:38.


xtc4 #30 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 15:17

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View PostDeputy276, on Jun 13 2018 - 08:43, said:

 Heck, I wish WG would bring back ALL of the old maps. Those lame reasons for removing them like "one side has an advantage over the other make no sense. So what? Next time you play you will be on the good side and it will even out. IRL, combatants didn't get to stop a war because "one side has better map advantage than the other". Yeah, it's a game. But why make it "gamey". :teethhappy:

 

This is an interesting comment. I also don't get worked up about maps being unbalanced, just like I don't get worked up about teams being unbalanced. It all evens out in the long run. I get more worked up about maps being unfun funnels that limit tactical options.



Horst_von_Usedom #31 Posted Jun 14 2018 - 00:08

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Completely ridiculous map. Too small. Too many obstacles added by development almost eliminates long range shots. Mines is almost as ridiculous as Mittengard.

spud_tuber #32 Posted Jun 17 2018 - 21:21

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View PostGuido1212, on Jun 12 2018 - 06:49, said:

I liked Cajuns comment that the hill can be taken if “done right”. I understand his point but it’s not about done right. It’s just about who pushes the most the fastest. You could say that’s the done right part, but it’s really just a ridiculous rush where you hope you aren’t the one focused and that your team brought more to shot the poor idiots trying to get up there in the side. The hill needs 2 access points because it’s just terrible gameplay design to have to rush an overpowered position and either die in 45 seconds or gain a massive advantage. Too much is riding on that one move.

If you think the current design favors rushing the hill, then take a look at the plans mentioned in the thread linked in the OP.  WG is planning to kill the ability for north to push aggressively in the west.



JTM78 #33 Posted Jun 18 2018 - 15:41

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I hated Mines since I started playing this game. The recent changes to the map have made it more unbalanced. The  North spawn is closer to the hill entrance with more cover too, since all the BS was added to the top of the hill the southern artillery spawn can'y engage the northern heavies as much as the artillery from the northern spawn can continually hammer the southern spawn heavies. Your map team need to good some where, they don't have to go away angry but they have to go!

Edited by JTM78, Jun 23 2018 - 23:05.


Deputy276 #34 Posted Jun 18 2018 - 15:50

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I have to wonder who exactly is testing these maps? Hopefully someone. Are these maps only being tested by Russians? Because if so, they are going to all be geared towards up-close brawling. Russians seem incapable of anything but in-your-face combat. Make it medium or long range, and they are helpless. Or so it seems. 

BEASTY_BUCKEYE #35 Posted Jun 23 2018 - 01:12

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 The best maps in this game was Dragons ridge, North west and Pearl river. Really wish they would bring them back it would be so refreshing for the game.

omi5cron #36 Posted Jun 23 2018 - 12:03

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my main problem with the new mines map...the hill is an inescapable cul-de-sac. only one way in OR out,due to the stupid terrain blocking steep hillside escapes.previous to HD,if you went there,but had no backup and redteam was rushing it,you could go over a farside to at least TRY to stay in the game. this point also is relevant to many other HD map changes,for instance the lighthouse-hill on cliff. there should be more flexible access/escape routes.

THE_GOONS_R_COMMING_RUNN #37 Posted Jun 27 2018 - 03:35

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View PostDomoSapien, on Jun 12 2018 - 15:41, said:

 

Well, there's _Irony_who was my team captain for the company-wide internal 3v3 tournament a couple years ago. I'd say he's pretty good. Thanks to him we went to Cyprus for the finals; he also won the 1v1 tournament last year and was on the Wargaming team at Tokyo Game Show :)

 

 


Well, I wouldn't say Fallout 4 is the best example because Fallout games have always relied in part on their thriving mod community. I actually just started re-playing FO4 because of the FO76 announcement, and running it with mods this time around has definitely made it much more enjoyable. I have a foliage mod installed that makes the wasteland look beautiful and lush instead of barren; highly recommend.

I digress, though. To my knowledge we have not had a map design contest, and as much as I would absolutely love to have one that would be something that would need to be a cross-regional initiative, if it were tied to any promises of potential implementation. I'd hate for someone to put in a bunch of work designing a map, only to never see it implemented. 

I am indeed quite happy to bring it up with the team, as I personally would love to see more user-generated content implemented in the game client. The closest thing to that we've done so far would probably be the SPG view that we eventually adopted into the game client (press G to change view in artillery mode) which was originally the winning entry in a community mod contest. 

 

I actually have mixed feelings about this being moderated because although it was definitely non-constructive, I was hoping to respond to it. The reason a 1500 recent WN8 employee is giving you strategies for the game is that these strategies are directed primarily at new or returning players that haven't played the game in quite some time. The maps were re-worked in HD and there are some small differences between the old and new versions.

 

If you'd like to hop on your main and platoon with me, maybe I'll finally git gud so my WN8 is higher than 1500?

_____


Thanks for the feedback, everyone! Make sure to check out the Supertest thread for Mines & Glacier! I'm happy to forward any feedback from this thread but the best place to get the most visibility on your suggestions will be the dedicated thread.

 

BRUH U MADE ME NO POST SO I COULDNT RESPOND FOR A WEEK! VERY LOW MOVE N UNSPORTSMEN LIUKE CONDUCTS HERE GET EM OUTTA HERE!

Image result for GET EM OUTTA HERE MEME


Edited by THE_GOONS_R_COMMING_RUNN, Jun 27 2018 - 17:38.






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