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DGunn #1 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:38

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Im thinking it would be nice if you could go into your settings and choose if you want to play in battles with or without artillery. I always hear many people complaining about them in the game. Another thought would be possibly limiting the amount of artillery pieces from 3 to 1 per team in random battles. Whats everyone's thoughts?

Blackgunner #2 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:43

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What an original and never before seen idea!

The_Illusive_Man #3 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:47

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Everyone would do so. Then arty would never get a game. This has also be suggested alot over the years. What should be done, is not allow arty to pen anything, and a nerf to the stun duration.

n4cer67 #4 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:48

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Easiest way is not to load the game.

 



The_Illusive_Man #5 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:48

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View Postn4cer67, on Jun 11 2018 - 22:48, said:

Easiest way is not to load the game.

 

 

With these crashes, the game does that for you...

n4cer67 #6 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:50

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View PostThe_Illusive_Man, on Jun 11 2018 - 20:47, said:

What should be done, is not allow arty to pen anything, and a nerf to the stun duration.

That's as bad as the OP's idea. HE can still pen but not as far as AP. If they nerf the stun then give back all the damage that was taken away.


Edited by n4cer67, Jun 12 2018 - 03:50.


n4cer67 #7 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:51

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View PostThe_Illusive_Man, on Jun 11 2018 - 20:48, said:

 

With these crashes, the game does that for you...

 

You been getting lots of crashes too? Makes me feel better knowing I'm not the only one.

KanataKonoe #8 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 03:55

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I feel like I've seen this one before.....

GeorgePreddy #9 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 04:00

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View PostBlackgunner, on Jun 11 2018 - 23:43, said:

What an original and never before seen idea!

 

That's why I gave him a plus 1.

Blucraft #10 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 04:39

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Arty in WOT is like mining in Eve Online.  I vocal minority hates it...yet a silent majority actually participates in it :D!

 

-Blu



Jaspo #11 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 04:40

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I've been labeled an arty whiner plenty in the past; I agree with basically all arguments that have ever been made against arty's current state, including the OP's sentiments here. However Frontline proved to me that that arty can exist in the game without being a cancerous nuisance. So what makes the difference? Well, randoms are all about keeping your tank alive. Frontline, not necessarily. The respawning ability hugely reduces the nuisance level of arty...as does the 1:15, rather than 1:5 ratio. In a random battle, as soon as I get hit by the first artillery shell, the thought enters my mind: there's a 75% chance that I'm now going to bleed free damage of an RNG quantity every 20 seconds or so for the rest of this battle, with complimentary module damage and stun every shot (meaning the battle is probably going to be total garbage for me from this point on) and I can mitigate this possibility only by hiding behind something, not contributing, and not having fun. In frontline, only once did I ever get focused by more than 1 arty at the same time, and rarely did they keep shooting me repeatedly; normally they focused on the caps more...and even if they had their fun and did focus me out until I died, it wasn't so bad at all since I could just respawn. The arty strikes, also fine. With 180 seconds of cooldown per player, there was no danger of being continually annoyed by the stuff, again it was mainly directed at the caps, and it either killed you or it didn't, but either way it finished the business quickly so as to not be this noxious continual nuisance. Also, the fact that every player had the arty strike potentially at their disposal made it seem a bit more fair...and there was the added strategy of using it in the right place at the right time.

heavymetal1967 #12 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 04:55

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From September 3, 2014. 

 

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/03/insider-wargaming-thoughts-on-arty/

 

WoT dev...

 >Remember this is a business Model, not a democracy, despite what players whine about over 90% of the database owns artillery at low to mid tiers and 83% owns an end-tier piece, this is contrary to the actual statistics of “arty sucks” and hear, these little krayfish dont even know what they want, all they want is win, win, win, and when they dont win they blame anything that can be accounted for, once we Nerf artillery, Tank Destroyers will come, they are blind and only see what they have the most immediate benefit of their wins, and then we will have a Tank Destroyer problem – too strong to be maintained in check! and the cycle will repeat, the new statistics are meant to define less damage per game as solution and it seems to be working. and noting else will be ever moved from now on unless a new model is approached. we must focus on what statistics form server tells not some Arty vocals, artillery is a piece of the game that is instrumental to our models, it will NEVER be removed and even if kraulf was to bring a second homecoming id rather make him drink --redacted--.

 

From October 11, 2017. 

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/10/11/48847/

 

WoT dev meeting...

 

Q: Artillery is annoying will they be remove or change further?

 

A: Artillery will not be removed. The class is for people for like to predict another players behaviour. There is a proportion of the players that really like this class and some players only plays artillery. Now players can survive longer rather than being one shot by artillery.

 

From dev Q&A and posted on The Daily Bounce on 12-12-17.

 

https://thedailybounce.net/2017/12/12/world-of-tanks-czech-community-qa/

Will there be further rebalances to SPGs? I suggest, limiting them to only 1 per battle, or deleting the game breaking and stupid stun mechanic.

 

Currently there are fewer people whining about arty than before. There are always some who will hate arty to death, no matter what we do, and they will want them to be deleted, but there is also a similar number of those who play SPG and enjoy them. Most of the player base just enjoys playing the game and doesn’t care too much about SPG. I would call that a problem without a solution, we are constantly looking into new possibilities and will continue doing that. The biggest issue with limiting their number to 1 per battle is that there would be no more battles without arty, and that is something we don’t want. We don’t think that currently arty is a big issue, but we will keep monitoring the situation and doing tests on our side.

 

 



Dr_Mr_Bibbles #13 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 06:01

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Nothing is wrong with arty, the problem is no one understands it. Arties purpose is?, yes long range support. the complaint of arty being overpowered is irrelevant, the answer is simple find "effective cover" (some where arty cant splash you) or use the freaking keyboard and move out of the splash zone. Arty is designed to prevent camps by basically saying move or be splashed to death. if you can understand that great you now know play against arty.

 



_Kradok_ #14 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 14:56

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View PostDGunn, on Jun 11 2018 - 21:38, said:

Im thinking it would be nice if you could go into your settings and choose if you want to play in battles with or without artillery. I always hear many people complaining about them in the game. Another thought would be possibly limiting the amount of artillery pieces from 3 to 1 per team in random battles. Whats everyone's thoughts?

 

I appreciate you trying to change MY entertainment to suit your own.  I play arty.  I enjoy it and laugh at the rhetoric against the class when I've seen the words of the dev team... 

 

That said, the ones that scream at the rain are fine - it's when they direct pointless anger at the player rather than the game that it becomes sad & pathetic.



BillT #15 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 18:49

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View PostDGunn, on Jun 11 2018 - 21:38, said:

Im thinking it would be nice if you could go into your settings and choose if you want to play in battles with or without artillery. I always hear many people complaining about them in the game. Another thought would be possibly limiting the amount of artillery pieces from 3 to 1 per team in random battles. Whats everyone's thoughts?

 

No.

 

1)  WG just announced they're going to get rid of tier 8 tanks that can "opt out" of tier 10 battles (pref MM tanks) because it kills the matchmaker.  Same would be true for any arty opt-out system.

 

2) Players spent time and money developing entire lines of artillery.  Last time I did the math my own investment was several million XP, thousands of gold spent on crew retraining, and millions of credits wasted buying and selling SPGs as I progressed up the lines.  Now you want to make them unplayable by reducing the number of players I can fight and forcing me to endure a very long MM queue.  Nope.  If SPGs are bad, remove them from the game and compensate me for my loss.   Anything else is a rip-off.

 

3)  Opt-out won't work with Clan Wars or Strongholds.  If one clan brings an SPG, the other clan can't opt out.

 

4) It would be impossible to compare stats between players because we'd no longer be playing the same game.  "Sure, you have a 3000 WN8, but you opted out of arty, so you have it easy.  My 2800 WN8 against arty is actually better than your 3000."

 

5) It would be difficult to balance all the tanks so they work correctly in both arty and non-arty matches.   Slow tanks get an instant buff if arty's not in the game.  Light tanks get a nerf, because they don't have artillery to feed them assist damage for spotting.   So if you balance, say, the OI for a game with artillery, it becomes overpowered in the non-arty games.   Likewise, some maps would be difficult to balance for both modes.



BillT #16 Posted Jun 12 2018 - 19:08

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View PostJaspo, on Jun 11 2018 - 22:40, said:

 However Frontline proved to me that that arty can exist in the game without being a cancerous nuisance. ... The respawning ability hugely reduces the nuisance level of arty...as does the 1:15, rather than 1:5 ratio.
 
In a random battle, as soon as I get hit by the first artillery shell, the thought enters my mind: there's a 75% chance that I'm now going to bleed free damage of an RNG quantity every 20 seconds or so for the rest of this battle, with complimentary module damage and stun every shot (meaning the battle is probably going to be total garbage for me from this point on) and I can mitigate this possibility only by hiding behind something, not contributing, and not having fun

 

The FL ratio was 1:10.  30 tanks and 3 SPGs per side. 

 

And for most of the FL period, that 1:10 ratio condemned SPGs to an unusually long queue time; often over a minute.  I often saw more than 30 SPGs in queue, which means (at 6 SPGs per game) they were waiting five games for a match, while any other tank would be able to join in the very next battle.  SPG players pay as much to play the game as anyone else, so prohibitive queue times just for SPGs are unacceptable.  In the future, I think they need to eliminate the Arty Strike consumable and allow 6 SPGs per side (instead of 3).  That will probably mean less overall indirect fire, too.

To your second point: if you hide from arty, you don't have to hide the whole game.  Just a minute, maybe two -- that'll be long enough for the arty to lose interest and find another target.  Look, this is a game where players think it's reasonable to leave one position and spend a minute or more driving to another position where they can be more effective.  That takes you out of the match just as much as hiding from arty does.  (Indeed, the best way to hide from arty is to move to a different position.)  So think this way: "Arty (or a sniper, for that matter) is focusing me.  This position is no longer very good.  I need to take a minute and move to a different one, or hide for a minute until he loses interest and this position becomes tenable again."



DGunn #17 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 05:16

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I never once said anything about "removing" arty from the game. I understand there are a lot of people who enjoy playing arty, on the other hand there are a lot who don't like it as much. All I am saying is we should have a choice but from what I am reading, it sounds like most people would choose to not have arty in the game. There have been a lot of good points and counter points made here. Keep the discussion going.

Altwar #18 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 05:46

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View PostDGunn, on Jun 12 2018 - 20:16, said:

I never once said anything about "removing" arty from the game. I understand there are a lot of people who enjoy playing arty, on the other hand there are a lot who don't like it as much. All I am saying is we should have a choice but from what I am reading, it sounds like most people would choose to not have arty in the game. There have been a lot of good points and counter points made here. Keep the discussion going.

 

Ah no, it doesn't "sound" like any such thing.   A number of players would choose, a number of players wouldn't choose.

 

The thing is, having an option to select an SPG free game is biased versus SPGs unless there's a button for every other class too.   Some players don't like being sniped to death by hidden TDs or blasted off the map with the big alpha TDs.   Some players don't like heavies bouncing their shots or pushing through them, etc.   Some players don't enjoy a wolf pack of mediums just shooting their tank to pieces.  Some players don't like pesky lights.  So do all these players get an option to opt out on the tanks they don't like?   If so, there are going to be some long queues.   And if not, putting yet another restriction on SPGs is bound to alienate a portion of the community who enjoy that class and might send some packing.

 

Opting out is a poor road to take to appease just a portion of the community.



Gaucho2 #19 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 14:22

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View PostDGunn, on Jun 12 2018 - 03:38, said:

Im thinking it would be nice if you could go into your settings and choose if you want to play in battles with or without artillery. I always hear many people complaining about them in the game. Another thought would be possibly limiting the amount of artillery pieces from 3 to 1 per team in random battles. Whats everyone's thoughts?

 

I completely agree with you, the idea is to give the option to play with/without arty not to eliminate arty from the game. Some people say in defense of arty that if Wargaming put this option then nobody will want to play with arty and will be very difficult to play with it. But then the conclusion is obvious: people wants to have fun in the game, if most of the people don't want arty then Wargaming should attend the vast majority of the opinions. Has no sense to frustrate 80% of the people (just guessing) to make happy the other 20%, and even that this 20% of the players will have the option to play with arty also. Not saying that the vast majority of players prefer to play tanks instead of arty.



Gaucho2 #20 Posted Jun 13 2018 - 14:34

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View Postheavymetal1967, on Jun 12 2018 - 04:55, said:

From September 3, 2014. 

 

http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/03/insider-wargaming-thoughts-on-arty/

 

 

From October 11, 2017. 

 

https://ritastatusreport.live/2017/10/11/48847/

 

 

From dev Q&A and posted on The Daily Bounce on 12-12-17.

 

 

 

There is a solution: put the option to play with/without arty, is not necessary to take drastic decisions like eliminate arty completely. A good idea would be to make a poll between players and see which percentage of players agree or not with this option... you will be surprised. The argument saying then it will be no arty to play is not consistent: if most of the people wants to play without arty then you should put the option, the idea is to fun people, then you should follow the players satisfaction. Finally the comment "Most of the player base just enjoys playing the game and doesn’t care too much about SPG" is not very adequate for a developer, just make a poll, be sure that this is true and be scrupolous in job!. Kind regards! 




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