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The_Chieftain #141 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 14:42

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View PostUWS_W3r3Wu1F, on Sep 12 2011 - 08:54, said:


JagdPanther firing its 75mm Gun

*Cough*

jdtherocker #142 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 15:20

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what is your favourite tank from ww2?

Lethal61 #143 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 15:31

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Chieftan since your our NA contact i would like to say welcome and congrats on your position :Smile_honoring: . Also i have a question on a tank im grinding that tank being the IS4 i have seen posts about it going to tier 10 and that seems logical as it is op for its tier now but what concerns me is i see posts saying it was going to loose its s70 gun is this true and if so what will be the replacement gun??. I can go either IS4 or T34 vary soon this is a delemma for me as i dont want to use thousands of xp on a tank that may not be as good as it is now.

Blackhorse_Six_ #144 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 16:21

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Quote

Q4. "the tiger 1 is 63 tons not 58 tons"
A4. The Tiger, from almost every source i've ever come across, states that the Tiger weighed 57-58 Tons, Tiger2 69-70 Tons.

I have found that the difference in "tonnage" (itself a maritime term relating to Displacement, though "tonnage" as used in this discussion is a generality) is often related to the source of the given information, ie, expressed as long tons, short tons, and metric tons - or expressed without notation at all. Some authors quote "official" sources, while others have performed conversions for the convenience of their readership in other nations. These figures are often later requoted in other books & databases without unit notation, thus propagating the "error". The error is further compounded when tonnage is cited without notation relating to "Factory" weight vs "Combat" weight.


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Q5. "third, why is the m18 not in world of tanks yet? and did the m18 come with a 90mm gun or bigger in ww2? and is the top speed of the m18 gonna be the same in game?"
A5. (a) Don't know, probably soon, I only know of the 90mm on the M18 ...

The gun on the production M18 was never anything other than the 76mm gun, though I cannot recall exactly which model (M1, M1A1 or M1A2). A 90mm gun was tested on one M18, but the weight of it slowed the vehicle considerably and the additional recoil tonnage stressed the current susupension beyond acceptable service parameters. With the end of the war in sight, the fact that the capabilities of the M18 had already been superceeded by tanks like the M4A3E8 Sherman Easy-Eight and the M26 Pershing, and the impending consolidation of the Tank Corps and the Tank Destroyer Corps into one Armor Branch, the project was dropped. If anyone has the Squadron Pub on the M18, it's pretty definitive on the basics ...  

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JagdPanther firing its 75mm Gun
Whistling soft tune, looking around, hands in pockets, shuffling of feet ...

(+1) for the impressive Links ... Here's one more ...http://m18hellcat.co...r_Carriage.html

Together, the Firepower Demo and the Restoration Video should give you a better "feel" for the M18. Note also, related vids and slides.

SpyGuy999 #145 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 17:18

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[quote name='pontiacbubba' timestamp='1315556790' post='891976']
Nice Nick. Haven't been anywhere that tanks were running but plan on going to Ft Knox one year for the 4th of July parade.

Just a note:  the US Army Armor Center has moved to Fort Benning and is part of the new Maneuver Center of Excellence. There are no tanks left at Fort Knox, other than those used by reserve units (I believe the Marine reserves still operate out of Knox).

And the Patton Museum has also moved for those interested. Setting up in Benning as well.

selcooper #146 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 19:22

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Simply said ZIPPERHEADS unite

shank117 #147 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 19:33

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View PostNihtwaco, on Sep 11 2011 - 22:32, said:

Howdy Folks

Welcome to "The Chieftan" I Just received my Retirement Package from the Army as I approch age 60. i SERVED 27 Years 7 Months 14 Days Most in the Reserve side. EOD Trained Ordnance Engineer CAV and Infantry Experience. Worked with M113 Family as a Cav Instructor for 11 Years. 19D4H ended as 11B4X. Gamer tag in Game Nihtwaco.

Tanks Save Infantry Lives at Relativly low Loss rates for the Armor Force. I Knew one WWII Sherman Commander who was Blown out of 3 Shermans with 1 crewman killed each time.

WOT is a Game First Simulation Second so Game Balamce is going to bend reality a bit. The Clock runs fast a ten Hour battle takes only 15 Minutes at Most. Most of the ammo Choices are Simple whereas in Real Life Ammo Load outs Varied with what the Higher Levels of Command could get their hands on or Thought was Proper to use and Crews Scavange dumps for what they Prefered from Direct Combat Experience. At National Levels Quality Varied a Lot and Types of Construction Varied both over time as Combat results could be Evaluated but also as key Materials had to be Pulled from use in Ammo as it was Needed Elsewhere.

In Game we are Given Tanks which Represent How a combat prepared version of a Particular Vehicle might have been setup. In Real Life some were Only a Single test Article others were Mass Produced in Fifty or more Variations which the Tech Research Trees in Game Do a Fair job of Representing.

My Recommendation Play Enjoy Try As Many Combinations as the Game Allows of every Tank you wish to try and Remember it is Only a Game.

Nihtwaco Out
i love the m113 got to ride in one i basic if i had 100k id buy one but im just a sad little paid private in the texas national guard

Landser1945 #148 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 19:33

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..."3. In same vein, deeper discussion of background of US Army's decision to use low velocity 75mm gun before WW II and at Tidworth conference in 1943 to stay with it."....

Sir,

If your interests follow U.S. engineering and armor (1930s through the war period) I would highly recommend picking up a copy of "Death Traps" by Belton Cooper.  He was an engineer who wanted to build battleships but instead found himself drafted into the Army, overseeing recovery/maintenance ops for 3rd Armored Division.  The Sherman tank units took some truly horrendous casualties over the course of the war, so he became quite intimate with the finer points of this topic.  

Its been a few years since I read the book but I recall the author seemed to place the blame with Patton for his decisions on arms aquisitions made during the prewar period.

Later, the decision to continue using shermans up until the end of the war was a result of taking a pragmatic view of the conditions.  So the blame may lie with upper leadership across the board there. Political, military, and business leaders were willing to accept casualties because they recognized that production numbers were winning the war.  

So an efficient system was developed to pull disabled vehicles off the battlefield, repairs were made in the field, and the interiors were repainted.  Cooper talked about some of the individual tanks being knocked out 4 and 5 times. The Germans eventually began specifically making an effort to put additional gun rounds into the US tanks even after they had been neutralized.  It was only after brewing up and burning that the steel would be too weakened for refurbishment.

The choice of the 75mm low velocity was Patton's call, he thought it would be most effective for his vision of warfare.  The sherman and its low velocity gun were to be used as support for infantry while breaking through fortifications.  Then apparently the tanks would cut through the enemies rear lines wreaking havoc like horse cavalry of yore.  The Big guns were reserved for artillery.

"Death Traps" by Belton Cooper
http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0891416706

A lot of this information (finer technical questions) may be readily accessible to you as well; through the Army.  If you would like I could tell you how to find this on AKO.  Since We've moved away from hard copies, you would be amazed by the sheer volume that has been have archived electronically.  Whenever I get bored I pull papers off there to read.  Its all part of the Army's history department.

Send me a private message and I will explain how to locate the archives through AKO.  Its likely you'd find Patton's own written justifications there.
Info on German tech would be there too.  During the cold war they spent decades analyzing and writing about the Germans military actions against the USSR.

-Landser

Romanski #149 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 20:32

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Glad to see you Chieftain!

We had a great time at the MVTF last June with Victor and the guys.

When is the next tour by the way? We should organize another one soon :)

Roman

The_Chieftain #150 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 20:40

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Quote

I would highly recommend picking up a copy of "Death Traps" by Belton Cooper

Cooper's book has been... erm... controversial as a source document for information on events outside of his immediate sphere of knowledge (i.e. what he'd have picked up in the maintenance shop). It's a good read, and I do recommend it if you see it, but take some of his pronouncements with a pinch of salt.

Quote

When is the next tour by the way?

On the schedule for a Saturday. Stay tuned for an announcement a couple of weeks in advance.

PanzerSG #151 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 21:12

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Hi Chieftain.

Great first article and I totally understand the love of tanks. Being a real world tanker (or tankee as we call them), I've grown to appreciate the comforts, capabilities and sheer power of awe that the tank can bring to the battlefield. Although I've not had the opportunity to bring my machine into actual combat, I've still had a chance to get a grasp of the maximum capabilities of my own vehicle and it really is something that can change the whole course of a fight.

And agreed. Crushing a car beneath your tracks is a truly satisfying experience. That, and the first shot you fire from your own tank is an experience like none other.

At this point, I'd really be interested to find out how many real-world tankers are out there actually playing WoT.


All the best, Chieftain, on your new column.

Fire First, Fire Fast, Fire Free. Nothing Stops the Armoured Cavalry.

The_Chieftain #152 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 21:28

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View Postlethal61, on Sep 12 2011 - 15:31, said:

Also i have a question on a tank im grinding that tank being the IS4 i have seen posts about it going to tier 10 and that seems logical as it is op for its tier now but what concerns me is i see posts saying it was going to loose its s70 gun is this true and if so what will be the replacement gun??. I can go either IS4 or T34 vary soon this is a delemma for me as i dont want to use thousands of xp on a tank that may not be as good as it is now.

I have nothing to do with game development, but unless something has changed since last I checked, and other people may be more up to speed, T34 is going to take a bit of a nerf and be downgraded to a Tier 8 Premium. However, it would be replaced in your garage by M103, which lots of people are looking forward to, including me. I would think your answer should be answered by play style, I've always considered IS-4 to be a bit of a brawler. My personal opinion, and worth what you paid for it.

The_Chieftain #153 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 21:59

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OK, going back to the earlier question on Swiss tanks in WWII, this is what Spielberger has to say on the issue:

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Acting on a decision from the Bundesrat on April 17 1936, Switzerland ordered 26 Type LTH tanks from the Ceskomoravska Kolben Danek firm. They were delivered dismounted without motors or armaments and assembled in Switzerland. A 6-cylinder Saurer Diesel motor producing 125hp gave the tank a top speed of 45kphj. It had a 7.5 ton combat weight, a three-man crew, a 2.4cm Oerlikon tank gun and a machinegun in the turret, and another MG in a ball mount. Armor plate was 8mm to 32mm. The Swiss Army called it Panzerwagen 39. Three tank companies were supplied with them and assigned to light brigades. The vehicles were retired in 1950.

It goes on to say that EK in Thun used LTH components to develop a self-propelled 75mm gun, called the Close Combat Cannon. Two variants were built, one on lenghtened LTH hulls, one open topped, the other closed.
http://mailer.fsu.ed...zerland/NKI.jpg

A second prototype, NKII was also built, coming in at 24 tons, it was an assault gun.
http://mailer.fsu.ed...erland/NKII.jpg

High production costs, and the fact thay they never could get them to work right anyway, resulted in the vehicles not entering series production.

ToveyADMCinCHomeFleet #154 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 22:13

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so, the OP is here to

Quote

...review the World of Real Tanks.
. here's something to review, and I'll never let go of it. do something about the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger. it's ridiculous that this tank is incapable of destroying other tanks of its tier or lower in one shot with the KwK36 8.8cm L/56 gun as it was so very capable of in real life.

Dominatus #155 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 22:37

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View Postwarmonger180, on Sep 12 2011 - 22:13, said:

so, the OP is here to . here's something to review, and I'll never let go of it. do something about the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger. it's ridiculous that this tank is incapable of destroying other tanks of its tier or lower in one shot with the KwK36 8.8cm L/56 gun as it was so very capable of in real life.

Please stop talknig about 1-shotting tanks with the 8.8cm. Real life tanks do not have health bars. At 17 pdr took out 3 Tigers with one shot each. A 76mm M1 gun can do the same.

Penetrations a different story though.

Also, just a note on the Panther for whoever was asking. The Panther had 80mm on the front glacias plate at a slope that made it about 150mm or so effective. This seems more or less correct in the game.

Kapitan_War_Wizard #156 Posted Sep 13 2011 - 00:01

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View Postwarmonger180, on Sep 12 2011 - 22:13, said:

so, the OP is here to . here's something to review, and I'll never let go of it. do something about the Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger. it's ridiculous that this tank is incapable of destroying other tanks of its tier or lower in one shot with the KwK36 8.8cm L/56 gun as it was so very capable of in real life.


Perhaps maybe you need to watch the movie "Kelly's Heroes". Couldn't hurt.

Kapitan_War_Wizard #157 Posted Sep 13 2011 - 00:04

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View Postjdtherocker, on Sep 12 2011 - 15:20, said:

what is your favourite tank from ww2?


Hands down, my choice is the Tiger tank. I have never liked any other tank. As for modern tanks? I choose the M88 Hercules. No other tanks out there suit me.

KnightsCross #158 Posted Sep 13 2011 - 01:38

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G'Day Chieftain

Welcome and good luck with The Chieftains Hatch

:Smile_great:

Why Tanks ?

I was asked the same question many times, this is my responce

WE LOVE OUR ARMOUR

As Armoured Corps Soldiers it can be hard to describe just what we do,
and how. To say you drive around in a tank all day just dose't do it
justice. But, to say you're entrusted with 2.5 million dollars worth of
high tech military hardware, capable of traversing 90% the worlds
terrain, climb a 1m vertical step, do a vertical drop of over 10m,
cross a 3+m ditch at full speed, ford a river completely submerged, go
airborne for 20+m, and go from 70kph to a complete stop in less than
the vehicles  length (less than 10m), then you may create some
interest. Then, sometimes you can show them. So take a look at the
Leaping Leopard pic, in my profile, and you will know just why I love my
Leopard, this pic was taken around 1981
This may be hard to believe, but I had my Leopard airborne many times.
I even jumped a tank ditch 4m across 3m deep. Years later I became the
driver to a General, who after telling him the story, happened to be
an Engineer Lt Col. who built the ditch at the time.He was amazed. I
was showing off at the time and had already gone airborne twice when
the ditch appeared 30m to my front ! traveling at 80kph down a
reentrant (yep all the engine warning lights were on) ! crap !
I heard the intercom come on but no words come from the CC. I lifted my
foot and then planted it, which lifted the front of the tank and we
were over, airborne a few more time and the CC finally told me to slow
down. We should have been back there in bits. Wow, Armour is great
isn't it.

When we halted the CC told me how the rest of the crew were still inside the tank
and white around the gills. He thanked me for getting us safely over this obstacle.
He then said he didn't think we would make it and asked me how I knew we would.
I said I didn't think we could make it either, but thought it better to plant my foot
rather than go nose first into a tank ditch at full speed. He stood still for a few minintes
as he obsorbed my answer and you could see it in his face that we were lucky,
he never asked me about it again and just walked away quietly pondering.  

KnightsCross
RAAC


Posted Image

ps many of us have started threads like this one, maybe we could put them all together some how

http://forum.worldof...litary-vehicle/

W3r3Wu1F #159 Posted Sep 13 2011 - 08:22

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Sep 12 2011 - 14:42, said:

*Cough*

Cough?

W3r3Wu1F #160 Posted Sep 13 2011 - 08:22

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View Postjdtherocker, on Sep 12 2011 - 15:20, said:

what is your favourite tank from ww2?

Tiger!




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