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Introducing "The Chieftain's Hatch"


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The_Chieftain #61 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 17:21

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View PostSeraph702, on Sep 09 2011 - 16:40, said:

im not a tanker, but i was an anti-armor specialist when i first got to my unit, its kinda like that commercial about staying at that hotel lol, with that said its awesome to meet a fellow Vet. 15 years and only a troop cmdr? oh wait thats equivalent to battalion in the Infantry. cool beans.

Actually, depends on where you are. In some organisations, it's a platoon-sized unit. In other organisations, it's a company-sized unit.

You're also making at least two assumptions about my career progression.

Seraph702 #62 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 17:38

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Sep 09 2011 - 17:21, said:

Actually, depends on where you are. In some organisations, it's a platoon-sized unit. In other organisations, it's a company-sized unit.

You're also making at least two assumptions about my career progression.

No offence intended, i personally like a tank leveling a building so i dont have to risk getting shot while doing MOUT. I dont think i made any assumptions, though you may have got that since there was no context in the statement/question. you could be a 19Z with no officer in commanding. And I understand you may have had "Staff" Time as most senior officers and NCO's have to put in. btw a senior to me is a e-6 and up or o-5 and up sometimes o-4. (personal opinion)
So again my bad for making you mad.

Lert #63 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 17:49

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I'll be following this ..

I never got into the military. Eyesight. If I had though, I'd wanted to get into the tanks as well, but would they even be able to fit 1m90 worth of me into a Leopard 2A5 / 2A6?

brian333 #64 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 17:51

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Sir,

I respectfully request an analysis of real-world tanks and how they differ from their WoT avatars.

I am not a tanker, my service was as a technician on a sub-hunter, (Spruance Class Destroyer,) and while I know a great deal about electrical distribution on a ship, I know very little about the actual tanks from which our computer-generated models were derived.

Thank you sir.

ledhed14 #65 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:06

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Mmmm Tanks ..


I got to drive once --after I buried the hull in a berm --our commander decided burning shit in cans was a job I was better suited at ..

I am old before Abrams when USAR have air mobile tankers ..not gas bags either.
M40 was main battle tank .
  we use light tights dropped from pallet on a chute. Armour aluminum ... 105 smooth bore Tube

Wonder if anyone knows the tank ?


:)

  :Smile-hiding:

anyway I doubt we see it in game .

But Chaffee is a close enough .

It is happy day here to see tanker who was tanker on real surface .

Welcome young man to the jungle.


Words to LIVE by ..


"I personally believe in "fight smart, not hard". If I can use my highly trained wireless telephone skills to call in an airstrike so that the pilot does the hard work while I sit back and brew coffee, I'm not going to stand upon principle and try to do it myself.



Lert #66 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:20

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View Postledhed14, on Sep 09 2011 - 18:06, said:

  we use light tights dropped from pallet on a chute. Armour aluminum ... 105 smooth bore Tube

Wonder if anyone knows the tank ?
M551 Sheridan?

KOS762 #67 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:24

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Welcome, glad to see a real soldier in here.  I served from Feb.5 1991 to Mar.13, 1998.  I am an Old Dog.  Love Tankers... I marched behind many, many tanks, in my time.  Tbone

The_Chieftain #68 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:25

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Quote

So again my bad for making you mad.

No offence taken, and I'm not mad. You just came to the same conclusion that a lot of other people do. I'm sure I'll explain in more detail later.

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but would they even be able to fit 1m90 worth of me into a Leopard 2A5 / 2A6?

I'm 1.97. Where there's a will, there's a way

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I respectfully request an analysis of real-world tanks and how they differ from their WoT avatars

Heh. That's not exactly a 'minor' request and it's not on the top of my to-do list, but I'm sure I'll be doing something of that note eventually.

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M551 Sheridan?

Sounds like it, 152mm rifle, though.

Lert #69 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:30

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View PostThe_Chieftain, on Sep 09 2011 - 18:25, said:

Sounds like it, 152mm rifle, though.
That's what I thought. I don't know of any other air-droppable aluminium-armored light tanks, though. maybe some Sheridan variant had a 105?

The_Chieftain, what did you drive? Chieftains?

M256 #70 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:33

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View Postsnidely206, on Sep 08 2011 - 22:12, said:

It's good to have someone who knows more than what they read on wikipedia.


WOOT! nice to see another "speed and power" tanker on here..2/69 Ar 1984-1987

ledhed14 #71 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:45

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Sheridan..you guys are fast ...

I thought that would take a while ...

:blink:

Its a grown up Chaffee  .. I do believe they are still in service although with striker and the Bradly they are somewhat superfluous .

Need to ask some of my younger buddies still in Guard if they drive .

so much has changed since my generation its like living sci fi ... I thought an infrared spot was a death ray ..now we have bombs that fly through windows..Iron  DUMB bombs with a tail..

tactics have not changed.

except the own the night mantra ...


I wonder Mr. Chief  Nicholas if your thread would a good place to discuss standard deployment tactics for those of unwashed masses --or crunchy squishy  ones that have yet to be initiated to a tactic not found inside a ceral box or in a PC or console game .


I think Even the Iraqi opfor did not use lemming rush as a tactic.

or camp and chat ..
or whats this button do ?

or he looks smart I follow him  .

or hey a bush ! I stay here .

etc.

Formations are a GOOD thing .

Cover fire is a GOOD thing .

Suppress and flank is a good thing .

We never seem to discuss simple tactics --and some think hull down means they need a repair kit .

Things like crest and use of terrain by GROUPS not individuals for instance ..

Seeing guys crest a hill to charge into waiting barrage still makes me crap my pants ..I get nightmares ..but in this game its common...

maybe you can do tank school ..simple tactics ?

PLEASE ??

snagking #72 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 18:58

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Its nice to read the thoughts of a REAL tanker. I retired (SGM/E9) in 96 as the 1st Cav G3 Sergeant Major. I have fired and qualified on almost every tank in the US inventory from The M47 to M1A2. I spent most of my career with 4/68 & 3/73 Airborne Armor in 82d Abn. I have jumper out behind M551s being heavy dropped. Been shot at an missed & shit at and hit. I was on Top Gun crew in Korea vs US in 1973.

borderrat #73 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 19:32

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View PostLert, on Sep 09 2011 - 18:30, said:

That's what I thought. I don't know of any other air-droppable aluminium-armored light tanks, though. maybe some Sheridan variant had a 105?

The_Chieftain, what did you drive? Chieftains?
I was with the 3rd ACR and the 11th ACR in the 70's. All Sheridans had 152mm.  Seems to me in about "78" maybe "79"
11th switched to the M60's to replace the Sheridan. Don't know why.
Of course with my memory I could be full of sh*t.

Spartanspearman #74 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 20:17

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Cool, we've been needing someone with the official title Tank BNerd. Welcome to World of Tanks!!!! :D

Fishercat #75 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 20:24

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I don't know if this is the right place to ask this question, but I figure I'll give it a shot.

I've seen HE rounds bounce on occasion, and I have a friend playing this game who feel that HE rounds should explode on contact ... period.

Could you please let me know if HE rounds bounce in the real world.

Thanks

The_Chieftain #76 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 20:49

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View PostLert, on Sep 09 2011 - 18:30, said:

The_Chieftain, what did you drive? Chieftains?

Chieftain was the first tank I ever drove, part of the reason for the name... I was hooked on tanks long before then, mind, but Chieftain was a lot of fun. Motorcycle-style gear change lever, big, fun tillers, and an accelerator pedal which had two positions: On and Off.

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some Sheridan variant had a 105?

Not that was in service. CCVL and M8 AGS both had 105s, CCVL would have been undergoing trials in the early 1980s, M8 in the mid/late 90s. Might have been that you saw some trials drops?

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I do believe they are still in service

Long gone. Even the ones used down at Irwin for OpFor were retired years ago.

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We never seem to discuss simple tactics --and some think hull down means they need a repair kit.

A 'Survial guide' is currently being reveiwed around the office before release. It won't be a 'Chieftain's Hatch' article per se, but will hopefully reduce the amount of Malinovka field charges. I'll be sure to note when it comes out.

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Could you please let me know if HE rounds bounce in the real world.

Two possibilities immediately come to mind, both depend on the fuze. One is that the fuze is defective. Built by forced labourers or people who just didn't care about QA. Would not have been overly uncommon in WWII, just ask an old submariner. The other is that the fuze simply isn't initiated. For example, if the fuze is at the nose of the shell, but the blow is sufficiently glancing that only the side of the metal casing touches the armour plate, you won't get an explosion. Of course, these are gross simplifications, but should get the idea across.

seraphswife #77 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 20:49

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View PostFishercat, on Sep 09 2011 - 20:24, said:

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this question, but I figure I'll give it a shot.

I've seen HE rounds bounce on occasion, and I have a friend playing this game who feel that HE rounds should explode on contact ... period.

Could you please let me know if HE rounds bounce in the real world.

Thanks
I will give this question a shot...
HE works by using shock to atomize the oxygen bound radicals in the air to increase its explosive force or over preasure, i am trying to paraphrase something on mythbusters or somewhere (HE is an Explosive but not all explosives are HE). the over preasure is used to shatter and break objects rather then burn or penetrate. I hear there is a tatctic called "Scratching Backs" where one tank being overran with insurgents is shot by another tank using HE and there is no damage other then superficial, residue and charred paint. Now im not sure if the rounds use a pezio-electric crystal that when force is applies sends a charge to detonate or if there is a fuse on it like a mortar round.
so correct me if im wrong in any part, like any guy im interested in explosives i will only ever see behind something glass or velvet rope lol.

MilanX3 #78 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 21:00

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Hi Chief!

I took am a military enthusiast and love tanks and aircraft, especially experimental ones and those from the Soviet and French design bureaus as well as modern artillery and anti-aircraft systems. Unfortunately many of these modern tanks and AFVs are not (yet) on WoT, but I would love to discuss tanks, modern and WoT era as well as your personal experience in the military and actually using the equipment. As well, being a tank nerd and using the tanks..is it not mandatory to know tanks in order to command them?

Cheers Chieftain...I assume you are in the UK?

MilanX3

GoodGameXXX #79 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 21:18

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Hi Chieftain,

Just curious, "What nation's military did you serve in?"    

"Army green" is kind of vague.  I'm guessing maybe you have driven Chieftain tanks?

BigWaveSurfer #80 Posted Sep 09 2011 - 21:42

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View PostZergling, on Sep 09 2011 - 07:06, said:

Welcome The_Chieftain!




Germany calculated armor slope from the vertical plane.

The Hetzer's armor is 60 degrees slope from vertical, and the calculation for armor thickness is: base thickness x (1 / cos angle)

= 60 x (1 / cos 60)
= 60 x (1 / 0.5)
= 120mm


World of Tanks has a normalisation function that 'nerfs' armor effectiveness though, reducing all angles by 8 degrees for normal AP ammo, 12 degrees for premium APCR/APDS, and no normalisation for HE and HEAT.

So that calculation becomes: base thickness x ((1 / cos (angle -8))

60 x (1 / cos (60 - 8))
= 60 x (1 / cos 52)
= 60 x (1 / 0.616)
= 60 x 1.624
= 97.5mm

Depending on relative position of shooter and target, the armor slope may increase or decrease further.

If the shot is at a downwards angle (say, shooter is on a hill firing at a tank on level ground below), part or all of the armor slope will be negated.

If the shot is at an upwards angle (target is on a hill and the shooter is firing upwards at him), the armor slope will increase.
Normally in this situation the weaker lower hull plate will be exposed though, usually nullifying any advantage.


If the shot is at an angle to the side of the target, then compound angles come into play, further increasing slope. These are calculated independently, in a sort of 'X and then Y' fashion.

Base thickness x ((1 / cos (angle1 - normalisation)) x ((1/ cos (angle2 - normalisation))

A couple tank designs (IS-3, IS-4 and IS-7 most notably) have armor that is significantly sloped on both planes, which results in maximum effectiveness when the tank is directly facing its attackers, and reduced if angled away.


u know i'm an old simple man, the way i came up with 120mm from 60mm at 60 degrees is i took 2 lines 60mm apart turned them 60 degrees and then put a ruler on them as i figured this was the line the shot would take. i was the real high school drop out.
and that M3 that hole me....flat gound, head on, 100m range (about) as the M4 couldn't get though them (unless they had a 76mm) from front on back in the war i figured i'd be save from an M3's 75mm




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