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Question about Abbey


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Badird #1 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 17:08

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Tier 10 game.

Im in a T-54.

 

Tier 8 batchat scout pings 8 line (river road) and asks for a large contingent to follow him, our only LT.

10 tanks go river road and I type my complaint.  "Why is everyone going to lemming down the 8 line?  Its the least strategic line on this map."

A TD sits on our base to shoot what I light in Abbey. 3 tanks, including a Mauschen, go 2 line.

 

Our 8 line won that flank around midgame, was not a steamroll.  They defeated, I think 3-4 tanks, but I dont remember exactly.  The Mauschen and the 2 other tanks carried by holding off the 6-8 enemy tanks and I helped where I could by spotting ~2k and doing ~1500 in mid and firing on 2 line.  We eventually lost Abbey and the 2 line, but we were able to 3 cap before they could respond/reset.

 

600 WN8 Batchat messages me after saying "You were saying?"  He spotted 1200 dmg and thought he carried.

 

To those better at this game than me, the 8 line IS the least strategic line in that map, correct?  This was a case of 'it worked this time, but wont work every time' correct?  Hard push on the 8 line works, Id say, ~30% of the time.  Same with valley push on Lakeville.  Yeah, it CAN work, but not reliably.

 

Thoughts?


Edited by Badird, Jul 02 2018 - 17:09.


H0D0R_ #2 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 17:17

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Abby is interesting. If the team is not on the 8 line but on the 1-2 and 4 line they will most likely lose. There is static cover on the north with the rock and the hill on the south that you can use for cover. You are able to bleed their team if they try to rush back to cap and get resets on it, if you have people set up near the abbey entrances that have the vision. With 8 line you need support from at least 3 tanks to win it. 1 spotting, 1 pulling aggro and one stronk td (STRV) in the back, oh and arty support is a plus. You can spot safely if you get into the water (from the north) to spot the south. You are usually able to roll up and poke a sliver of your tank to spot the enemy for your allies to get them.

 

But you if roll into a push it will give your allies on 1-2 the info to push hard and right to their cap.



Awestryker #3 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 17:32

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Always follow the lemming train...or at least use the side they went on as backside cover...

 

What I mean is: What I might have done, if I did not follow the train, was go on the river side of our cap (because your [edited]would be safe), find a decent hull down spot where you can spot the cap, and wait for the enemy...then just spot and reset as much as you can, use HE for resets if needed...a high percentage of the enemies that go to the cap will stop on the cap (because that's what reds do), so less will be rushing you on the river side of the cap...

This gives your team more time to come back if needed...or to cap...

 

Going to the 8 line, when most of the team goes river, is just throwing tanks away...

 

 


Edited by Awestryker, Jul 02 2018 - 17:37.


xtc4 #4 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 18:11

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View Post_Promote_Synergy_, on Jul 02 2018 - 11:17, said:

Abby is interesting. If the team is not on the 8 line but on the 1-2 and 4 line they will most likely lose. There is static cover on the north with the rock and the hill on the south that you can use for cover. You are able to bleed their team if they try to rush back to cap and get resets on it, if you have people set up near the abbey entrances that have the vision. With 8 line you need support from at least 3 tanks to win it. 1 spotting, 1 pulling aggro and one stronk td (STRV) in the back, oh and arty support is a plus. You can spot safely if you get into the water (from the north) to spot the south. You are usually able to roll up and poke a sliver of your tank to spot the enemy for your allies to get them.

 

But you if roll into a push it will give your allies on 1-2 the info to push hard and right to their cap.

 

I am confused. Are you saying that 8 line is most important? I never go there if I can avoid it.  Like the poster, I was under the impression that 1,2 line is still the most important part of the map because it controls both bases. I dread when my team pushes 8 line, just like I dread beach on Overlord. Should I change my attitude?

Badird #5 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 18:56

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View Postxtc4, on Jul 02 2018 - 17:11, said:

 

I am confused. Are you saying that 8 line is most important? I never go there if I can avoid it.  Like the poster, I was under the impression that 1,2 line is still the most important part of the map because it controls both bases. I dread when my team pushes 8 line, just like I dread beach on Overlord. Should I change my attitude?

 

I think hes saying that SOMEONE (3 tanks) needs to cover the 8 line, which no one will dispute.

 

My problem was the hard push.  I view it the same way you do; beach on Overlord or valley on Lakeville.  Typically occupied by bad players who only have to worry about the tank in front of them.  Most of the time, if you rush that (like I think he also said), the enemy team will have time to use that information to either shoot/reset their cap from the 2-line and/or cap you.  Once a team sees 8-10 tanks on the 8 line, all other flanks should push hard to win.

 

The reason it doesnt always fail is because pubbies.  IMO, this is one of those cases.



H0D0R_ #6 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 19:16

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View Postxtc4, on Jul 02 2018 - 17:11, said:

 

I am confused. Are you saying that 8 line is most important? I never go there if I can avoid it.  Like the poster, I was under the impression that 1,2 line is still the most important part of the map because it controls both bases. I dread when my team pushes 8 line, just like I dread beach on Overlord. Should I change my attitude?

8 Line is not the most important, but with a good 4-5 tanks you can usually roll it 9/10 times, as long as you don't get stuck there or if they yolo with their whole team. It is very situational. You need people up on the abby and mid ready to support your push to the cap zone/pressure points.

 

But at least change your attitude :) it is a ton different than yoloing beach on overlord. At least on 8 line you can hop up on that little hill to support or run away.

 

View PostBadird, on Jul 02 2018 - 17:56, said:

 

I think hes saying that SOMEONE (3 tanks) needs to cover the 8 line, which no one will dispute.

 

My problem was the hard push.  I view it the same way you do; beach on Overlord or valley on Lakeville.  Typically occupied by bad players who only have to worry about the tank in front of them.  Most of the time, if you rush that (like I think he also said), the enemy team will have time to use that information to either shoot/reset their cap from the 2-line and/or cap you.  Once a team sees 8-10 tanks on the 8 line, all other flanks should push hard to win.

 

The reason it doesnt always fail is because pubbies.  IMO, this is one of those cases.

I'd recommend that if no one goes 8 line have people ready to proxy spot them (hug the wall in a safe spot) to see them coming. Or at least position people up in the abbey to spot them when they push into the open.

 

If you are in a light tank surely push down 8 line ALL THE TIME so that you can get eyes. You don't have to commit but it will get eyes/knowledge on where the enemy is more than likely going. So if you spot 0 tanks on 8 line you have an idea if a td or med is most likely camping in the back.

 



Xenuex_ #7 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 19:17

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8 line isn't useless. None of the avenues on Abbey are useless. If you push hard 8 line. Win it fast enough. You can take control of their cap area. And, if so inclined push through and shoot the bad tanks on 1,2. But, you gotta remain vigilant about the abbey itself.

 

It all depends where their tanks go. If 8 line is light. you need to take it and push past.

 

 

The problem with most teams, are they are afraid to push. The aggressively smart teams will win most the times. The passive teams, as long as the enemy team doesn't yolo 1 by 1, will lose. Most of the time at least. -- thats my opinion



Trauglodyte #8 Posted Jul 02 2018 - 21:48

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If I understand it, the 8 line is something that you don't need to emphasize but you need to be aware AND, if you do put more resources into it then necessary, you'd better win it quickly.  My opinion is that the 8-0 line is like the valley in Lakeville.  It doesn't hold any specific strategic ground but it can ruin your team if you get bogged down.  The middle part gives you eyes on TDs in their area and allows you an avenue to protect your base, in the case of a push from the Abbey and/or if you lose the 1 line.  But, it also lends itself to cutting you off to a base reinforcement if you don't have the speed and commit too much too deep (that's what she said).

 

I'm not better than you and I'm not as good as those that have posted in here.  I would say that "it depends" and, with anything, it only matters if you win it and win it quickly.  Otherwise, you just wasted resources.  After all, you only have one vantage point with which to put damage on other portions of the map and only a few tanks can efficiently and effectively use that spot.

 

Am I right or am I reading it wrong?

 

Anyway, when I'm fighting, I need to know that I've got choices AND that I have an egress route.  8 line doesn't provide that for my play style, and the tanks in which I play.


Edited by Trauglodyte, Jul 02 2018 - 21:50.


Xenuex_ #9 Posted Jul 03 2018 - 05:14

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Yeah, thats a pretty good summary Traug




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