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Tier X - Why So Much Silver Lost?


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WeatherbyMkV #21 Posted Jul 06 2018 - 03:20

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Greyhound 2014;

 

Thank you!  I looked in the Premium Shop as you suggested and I found the T26E5...$$$$! 

 

I appreciate it.  I don't know why it didn't occur to me to look there.  Duh.

 

Thank you again.



Roggg2 #22 Posted Jul 06 2018 - 12:44

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Credits are awarded mainly for damage.  You dont do enough damage to make back your costs at tier 10.  It doesn't matter how high or low on the list you finish, if half the team sucked more than you did, it doesn't mean you did well.  And tier X is the hardest tier to make profitable.  

WeatherbyMkV #23 Posted Jul 06 2018 - 16:23

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View PostRoggg2, on Jul 06 2018 - 12:44, said:

Credits are awarded mainly for damage.  You dont do enough damage to make back your costs at tier 10.  It doesn't matter how high or low on the list you finish, if half the team sucked more than you did, it doesn't mean you did well.  And tier X is the hardest tier to make profitable.  

 

I appreciate your and the others' replies.  What you described is what prompted my original post.  If finishing 4/15 results in a 19,415 loss, then (a rhetorical question) how much did the players who finished below me lose...which made me wonder how players can afford to play at Tier X...and now thanks to the replies above I think I understand the issues involved.

 

Thank you.



ethics_gradient #24 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 15:40

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Think of it from WoT's point of view.  They need to make money.  They also need to make the game free to attract a large player base.  Last, they don't want to make it pay to win.  So how do you create an incentive for players to voluntarily pay real world dollars for pixel tanks, yet avoid pissing off the rest of the player base with a pay to win model?  You make sure that the economics of the top tiers is very difficult, which creates an incentive to shell out for premium time.  Simple as that.


 

I don't pay for premium time.  If you look at what tanks I've played in the past, my moneymakers are self evident.  For years, before I bought some premium tanks, I used the Stug III as my moneymaker.  Then the Type 59, and not the e25.



1stCenturian #25 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:40

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This is my honest opinion on the matter:

 

Rush the tiers to atleast 8 and play there because you can learn so much more at that tier than you ever will in low tiers. It’s not even the same game at tier 1-4....

 

Sure you will get shredded most of the time but just Stay in battle and watch the others play. Pay attention to terrain usage, watch how a medium/light using vision and speed take out heavily armored opponents. Study the heavies that are brawling in the corridors. You will see them sidescrape off a corner to use armor more effectively. A huge leap in skill will come when you start learning weak points on heavy armored tanks. Making every shot count really goes a long way. From earning credits to keep playing and exp for you tank and crews.

 

Do your own research out of the game too. Knowing which crew skills for each tank is best as well as equipment can all be learned from YouTube vids. If you are like me you will learn faster by jumping in head first with hands on training vs playing low tier derpfests and trying to apply that play style to the higher tiers. It just doesn’t work out too well. Atleast not for me.

 

Its a frustrating game for sure but ignore the toxic peeps and try to have fun while you learn. 



1stCenturian #26 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:52

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One more thing: 

 

Some people buy premium tanks based solely on the tank in question. For me my real deciding process on purchasing a premium tank is ‘Do I need a crew trainer for this nation/class?’ So it’s not about what is the best tier 8 premium....it’s about which tier 8 premium tank would I benefit from the most.

 

You will make credits from any of them sure but if you are working up a new class/nation line then the premium tank that allows you to train that new lines crew up as well as making credits would be the best bang for your buck.



Taggeth #27 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 17:20

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View PostWeatherbyMkV, on Jul 06 2018 - 09:23, said:

 

I appreciate your and the others' replies.  What you described is what prompted my original post.  If finishing 4/15 results in a 19,415 loss, then (a rhetorical question) how much did the players who finished below me lose...which made me wonder how players can afford to play at Tier X...and now thanks to the replies above I think I understand the issues involved.

 

Thank you.

 

Another reason WG makes tier X a credit loss is to force players back to the lower tiers to earn credits in order to play tier X.  This also keeps other tiers populated for random battles.  Otherwise most people would stay at tier X and it would be seriously harder to create teams at tiers IV thru VIII. 

 

The better you get at tier X, the fewer games you'll need at lower tiers to fund your X games.



Gtraxeman #28 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 18:19

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View PostWeatherbyMkV, on Jul 06 2018 - 16:23, said:

If finishing 4/15 results in a 19,415 loss, then (a rhetorical question) how much did the players who finished below me lose...

Probably about the same. They got stuck with a repair bill, but probably did not use much ammunition. Even in bad games, without using the 2 key much, 20k to 30k loss.



dunniteowl #29 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 21:42

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View PostWeatherbyMkV, on Jul 06 2018 - 09:23, said:

 

I appreciate your and the others' replies.  What you described is what prompted my original post.  If finishing 4/15 results in a 19,415 loss, then (a rhetorical question) how much did the players who finished below me lose...which made me wonder how players can afford to play at Tier X...and now thanks to the replies above I think I understand the issues involved.

 

Thank you.

 

Probably not as much as you might think.  Those other players that did even less damage probably ONLY paid for repairs.  They more than likely didn't even get off more than two shots of ammo before they were sent back to the garage.  Which means they bailed on some of the more expensive costs, Large Repair Kits, Large First Aid Kits, Automatic Fire Extinguisher or Food -- none had a chance to get used (well the food would have been wasted, so if they ran that it would get pricey fast).

 

The ones who finish higher up spend more in rounds and consumables over a longer period in match.  The ones who need more rounds per penetrating shot will be the ones who end up spending the most credits by making up for skill in sheer numbers or the 2-key premium rounds.

 

As to how they can afford to play, you have been well and soundly answered:

 

They either 'finance' their higher tier fun with lower tier pay and credit grinding; or they throw money at it in the form of Premium Time, Premium Tanks, Personal Reserves and Gold -- most of which are readily purchased with real cash.  Which is the entire point.  I'm a FTPP so I can't play too much or too high a tier until I can make the time commitment and also get a new computer.  Meanwhile, I do understand the system and the way it's designed.  They need to make it harder up in the "end game" arena so that, in order for folks to remain there and afford it, they're 'credit' encouraged to pay for some of those aforementioned things that will speed things up as well as allow them to afford to play at higher tiers.

 

That's it.

 

 

OvO



OldFrog75 #30 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 01:43

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View PostWeatherbyMkV, on Jul 06 2018 - 07:23, said:

 

 If finishing 4/15 results in a 19,415 loss, then (a rhetorical question) how much did the players who finished below me lose...which made me wonder how players can afford to play at Tier X...and now thanks to the replies above I think I understand the issues involved.

Hard to know what other players earned or lost:

 

On the credit earning side - Premium Time, Damage done, Personal Reserve boosters for Credits

 

On the credit spending side - Repairs, Ammo, Consumables



WeatherbyMkV #31 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 05:07

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View Post1stCenturian, on Jul 12 2018 - 16:40, said:

This is my honest opinion on the matter:

 

Rush the tiers to atleast 8 and play there because you can learn so much more at that tier than you ever will in low tiers. It’s not even the same game at tier 1-4....

 

Sure you will get shredded most of the time but just Stay in battle and watch the others play. Pay attention to terrain usage, watch how a medium/light using vision and speed take out heavily armored opponents. Study the heavies that are brawling in the corridors. You will see them sidescrape off a corner to use armor more effectively. A huge leap in skill will come when you start learning weak points on heavy armored tanks. Making every shot count really goes a long way. From earning credits to keep playing and exp for you tank and crews.

 

Do your own research out of the game too. Knowing which crew skills for each tank is best as well as equipment can all be learned from YouTube vids. If you are like me you will learn faster by jumping in head first with hands on training vs playing low tier derpfests and trying to apply that play style to the higher tiers. It just doesn’t work out too well. Atleast not for me.

 

Its a frustrating game for sure but ignore the toxic peeps and try to have fun while you learn. 

 

Points well made and appreciated.

 

Appreciation as well to the other posters who contributed to helping me understand this difficult game a little bit better.



TLWiz #32 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 13:15

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View PostWeatherbyMkV, on Jul 05 2018 - 04:02, said:

I rushed the tiers, no argument there.

 

But the answers provided above do clarify that unless one is a very good player, the top tiers cost a lot to play.

 

Thank you for the replies.

 

To make credits in a tier 10 game you have to win (I do make creds in 10 occasionally so I know it is possible), you have to do good damage, and you can't shoot too much premium ammo. I see that your T110E5 winrate is pretty rough and you don't do 25% of your hit points in damage on average.  This will not be profitable but it is typical for those who race to tier 10 before they are ready. 

 

I play many different tiers, my tier 10 play is occasional and I usually have plenty of credits built up from non-tier 10 play. I don't lose a lot playing 10s but I lose creds more often than I clear a profit because I am bad at 10s. So yes, you are correct. Playing Tier 10 is a not for profit endeavor. For me it is an occasional thing.


Edited by TLWiz, Jul 14 2018 - 01:05.


Nudnick #33 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 13:33

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The tier 10 economy is set up to make you buy tier 8 premium tanks to farm credits so you can play tier 10. That's why you bought the T26E5. Working as intended.

WeatherbyMkV #34 Posted Jul 15 2018 - 15:05

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View PostNudnick, on Jul 13 2018 - 13:33, said:

The tier 10 economy is set up to make you buy tier 8 premium tanks to farm credits so you can play tier 10. That's why you bought the T26E5. Working as intended.

 

Yep, that’s what happened in my case.  WOT psychology and marketing at its best.  They’re good at their business.



1stCenturian #35 Posted Jul 15 2018 - 16:48

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View PostTLWiz, on Jul 13 2018 - 12:15, said:

 

To make credits in a tier 10 game you have to win (I do make creds in 10 occasionally so I know it is possible), you have to do good damage, and you can't shoot too much premium ammo. I see that your T110E5 winrate is pretty rough and you don't do 25% of your hit points in damage on average.  This will not be profitable but it is typical for those who race to tier 10 before they are ready. 

 

I play many different tiers, my tier 10 play is occasional and I usually have plenty of credits built up from non-tier 10 play. I don't lose a lot playing 10s but I lose creds more often than I clear a profit because I am bad at 10s. So yes, you are correct. Playing Tier 10 is a not for profit endeavor. For me it is an occasional thing.

Yeah I’m right there with you. We’re pretty close in games played and overall win/wn8 too. I’m pretty bad at my 10s since I don’t play them regularly



GollumsFish #36 Posted Jul 15 2018 - 21:15

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Wargaming does it on purpose to force you to pay for a premium account, or a premium tier 8 tank - to get enough silver to pay for your tier 10 tanks.

 

The game isn't actually free to play if you're playing tiers 8, 9, and 10.



HighProbability #37 Posted Yesterday, 08:21 PM

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View PostWeatherbyMkV, on Jul 04 2018 - 20:57, said:

I am shooting standard AP.

 

Several great replies that answers your question.

 

Let me also reinforce a point made earlier about premium ammo. Many players think that they are saints or somehow better than others by refraining from premium ammo use. I wish WG would address premium ammo, however, they won't. So, let's look at premium ammo as a means to help your team secure a win. When you have a sure shot to pen with regular ammo, go for it. When you know you need premium to secure that kill, save a teammate, to make that MAUS STOP pushing, shoot the damn premium ammo. AND, when you see a chance to jack someone with HE and destroy their crew and module in the process, DO IT. So you see, premium ammo is not a bad thing, just an expensive thing. The issue of economics is already addressed multiple ways by multiple posts.






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