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The End of Pref MM - What's gonna happen?

Preferential Matchmaking Super Pershing IS-6 Premium Tanks Stug IV

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xXTheGameAceXx #1 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 17:04

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Pretty much what the title says. I'm curious what everyone else thinks about what we've been hearing about WG working on taking Preferential Matchmaking out of the game, and the effects it will have on both MM and the tanks themselves. Personally, I don't think it will do much to standard MM, but I do think it may force Wargaming to finally take a look at some of the older, unloved, power-crept junk piles that are sitting in our garages, and give them some of the love they deserve. Who knows, the crappy old Stug IV might actually get some of the buffs we've talked about on the forums before, and become a tank that's actually worth using to some extent!

I'll go ahead for the heck of it and list off the Pref MM tanks I currently have, the issues, and some changes that I think would make them better suited for standard MM. Note that these are my opinions, and you may or may not agree. No need to get nasty about it if you think the changes are crazy.

 

For me, I know I currently have 3 Pref MM tanks, so this topic is something I'm very interested in currently.

*IS-6B

*Super Pershing (Love it so much!)

*Stug IV

 

Personally, I just want to list some quick issues with these that I think are the root causes for them to be Pref MM tanks to begin with.

*Super Pershing

  •  Very low speed for a medium tank due to the armor. Forces it most of the time to brawl with heavies and stick nearby other tanks so that it doesn't risk getting flanked, and generally makes the Super P incapable of flanking itself to take care of threats that it can't face frontally.
  • Sub-par gun. While it wouldn't be terrible if the Super P had good speed and brawled with other mediums, 192 penetration already has some struggles with some heavies, especially where you have to carefully aim, giving opponents the opportunity to focus in on one of your weakspots, or  just load gold into you. It also can't deal with a lot of tanks such as the Defender, without loading a lot of gold.
  • Armor is solid, but riddled with weakspots (upper plate mini gun, top of turret, cheeks of turret under the armor plates, tracks up front right behind the armor plate, very top of the upper plate, armor plates to the sides of the gun mantlet, just the portions right near the mantlet, area right under the mini gun), and a lot of stronger upper tier tanks or gold spammers can pen the armor without a problem in most locations as well.

 

Personally as I see it, those are the big issues with the Super P. It's essentially a medium with the armor and speed of a heavy, but the gun of a weak medium. Also personally as I see it, the solution to make it work without the pref MM would be as follows:

  • Increase gun penetration and alpha. Pen to help it deal with some of the newer tanks that have powercreeped/armorcreeped the Super P, and alpha just so that it can put out some more respectable damage for dealing with heavies. 240 on average per shot isn't going to do much to a tier 10. (+40 imo wouldn't be bad, putting it up to 280)
  • Reduce armor weak spots and slightly increase armor thickness. I listed quite a few dang weakspots that this thing has, and at least from my perspective, it doesn't need to deal with that many, especially since quite a few tanks now tend to either only have a lower plate and cupola weakspot, or just a few smaller ones in general, and a slight increase in armor thickness helps to deal with at least non-gold shots from Tier 10 tanks.
  • Slight buff to Power/Weight ratio/engine horsepower. Just a bit of extra power to it wouldn't be bad, especially for climbing hills. (Moreso even on Westfield, where it gets started at the bottom of the hill and has to make a slow painful climb)

 

*IS-6/IS-6B

  • Weak gun with terrible handling. 175 pen, 0.46 dispersion (tied with my Type 5's derp gun), and a 3.4 second aim time. Can I get Terrible Guns for $500, Alex?
  • Terrible frontal armor. You can easily penetrate most of the front of the IS-6 with pretty much any Tier 7 or higher tank. Ironically the lower plate is actually stronger and can bounce shots. You can also pen it straight through the turret right by the gun mantlet without a problem.
  • Weak view range. 350 view range would be fine ordinarily, but considering newer tanks over time, this has become pathetic and it ends up getting hammered from a distance if it has no support. (More of a minor complaint though. Not too big of a deal.)

 

Solutions:

  • Swap armor thickness of upper and lower plates. Not too hard or farfetched in my opinion, and makes it fit right in with other similar heavies.
  • Increase thickness of frontal turret weakspot. Not too big of a deal for the tank, but because of the terrible accuracy and aimtime (which it has to rely on heavily as-is to pen most tanks) of it's current gun, it's left highly susceptible in a close-range fight.
  • Replace the gun. I'm not even going to say buff the gun at this point, because that thing is pretty much just the gun of the IS with a slightly faster RoF. It's an absolute joke, and to buff it well enough would pretty much change almost every aspect of the gun anyways. The only reason it even works on the IS is because it can more often than not get top and mid tier, facing far lesser armor and threats. For a tier 8 premium heavy, it should have a gun that can stand up to other tanks without the need of gold spam and a prayer that RNG won't screw you over.

 

Lastly, before I bore everyone to death or people start throwing tomatoes at me because they don't agree, the Stug IV. The Stug IV is essentially supposed to be an even better version of the Stug III G, right? Yeah, that's what pretty much everyone would think, but no, it's a junk pile that gets out-performed by the Stug III G in almost every way. (I mean hey, it's got Pref MM for a reason)

 

*Stug IV

  • Outdone in pretty much every aspect by it's standard tech tree counterpart.
  • Penetration is 40 less than the Stug IV with 25 less alpha. This means sniping with AP rounds across a good distance drops a good deal of penetration already, and you're going to bounce a lot of shots. Definitely can't keep up in Tier 7 matches with that weak gun.
  • Slightly less gun depression and 5 degrees less of gun arc than the Stug III G.
  • Accuracy is alright, but 0.02 lower than the III G.
  • Engine and Power to Weight ratio are much lower compared to the III G. (by 140 and 7 points respectively)
  • 30 less rear armor and 2 less top speed than the Stug III G.

 

While some of these issues may seem trivial (such as the rear armor and slightly less accuracy), from my perspective at least this should be a better tank than the Stug III G due to being a reward tank and essentially an upgraded counterpart, and it hardly is in any manner. (Better radio range, and +10 HP are the only real upgrades.)

 

Solutions:

  • Pretty much just buff this thing to match the Stug III G, and just add a few increases.
  • Slightly higher alpha and penetration or RoF compared to the Stug III G.
  • Slight increase to frontal armor.
  • Slight increase to view range. +10 to 320 would be decent for the tier.

 

And that's pretty much it! I know this is a bit of a long post (or at least long for me to write it up), but take the time to tell me what you think and maybe even add in your own Pref MM tanks and what changes you think should be applied for the removal of their Pref MM.



OttoT #2 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 17:10

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You could check the other 50 or so threads with the same questions...



Blackeagle902 #3 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 17:16

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It will make some tanks junk. The Churchill 3 will be way outmatched if it gets in a T7 battle.  This may even up the field a bit in other areas, we will see. 

xXTheGameAceXx #4 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 17:23

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View PostOttoT, on Jul 08 2018 - 11:10, said:

You could check the other 50 or so threads with the same questions...

 

I'm guessing you didn't read past the thread title?

 

View PostBlackeagle902, on Jul 08 2018 - 11:16, said:

It will make some tanks junk. The Churchill 3 will be way outmatched if it gets in a T7 battle.  This may even up the field a bit in other areas, we will see. 

 

That's where I'm thinking that they'll likely have to give buffs to the old Pref MM tanks, since the reason they're Pref MM to begin with would seem to be because they're astoundingly weak in one way or another.



CapPhrases #5 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:25

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if it's the end of pref mm tanks I reckon it'll be the end of many people's time with this game. I bought pref mm tanks so I wouldn't be bottom tier, no amount of buffing or changing is gonna fix that for me.

besides with WG we all know they couldn't balance a scale let alone a tank.



LintinPocket #6 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:28

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Already sold most of my MM tanks. Sold most of my Prem (42) tanks. I frankly do not care what they do to them because whatever it is I don't want it.

xXTheGameAceXx #7 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:35

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View PostCapPhrases, on Jul 08 2018 - 12:25, said:

if it's the end of pref mm tanks I reckon it'll be the end of many people's time with this game. I bought pref mm tanks so I wouldn't be bottom tier, no amount of buffing or changing is gonna fix that for me.

besides with WG we all know they couldn't balance a scale let alone a tank.

 

That's something I'm honestly afraid of, and basing off of Wargaming's really shoddy record, I'm very well guessing that these tanks will barely get some minor changes that WG *thinks* will solve everything, that in reality make it worse or do almost nothing for them making the tanks vanish into oblivion as no one will play them anymore. I know I definitely also bought my Super P for the Pref MM, unique playstyle, and being one of the better credit printers among premiums. (And it was on sale...)

Dogsoldier6 #8 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:37

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I am willing to wait to see what they do. If they even them up so they can dump pref MM that is fine with me.

 

If there first attempts fail, which is highly likely with this company, then I will wait till they get it right.



Maegenwulf #9 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:43

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Stug is a reward tank, unlikely it gets adjusted.  Does it even get preferential MM?  It doesn’t get premium bonuses IIRC. 

Gothraul #10 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:47

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The game will get worse as a result as tank balancing is so slow and often poor with loads of tanks being too weak while others being to the other extreme as the case has been with the 268 v4 which will eventually be outdated to some other monstrosity.

largeelvis #11 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:48

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Bought the Churchill III and a couple of hundred dollars of Christmas boxes for the Type 59 specifically for the pref mm. If they nerf that without cash refunds, probably the end of WOT for me. It's not a big deal for everyone, but for a lot of paying players it's a dealbreaker.

xXTheGameAceXx #12 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 18:54

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View PostMaegenwulf, on Jul 08 2018 - 12:43, said:

Stug is a reward tank, unlikely it gets adjusted.  Does it even get preferential MM?  It doesn’t get premium bonuses IIRC. 

 

Does get pref MM. If it didn't, it would be nearly 100% unplayable. The reward tanks are considered premium, but just don't get the credits bonus. They get the crew bonuses though. Even as a reward tank, still has the Pref MM, which means they'd have to make changes to it to end the Pref MM requirement on it. Honestly although the reward tanks are unlikely to get adjusted, all of them could really use some love.

 

View PostGothraul, on Jul 08 2018 - 12:47, said:

The game will get worse as a result as tank balancing is so slow and often poor with loads of tanks being too weak while others being to the other extreme as the case has been with the 268 v4 which will eventually be outdated to some other monstrosity.

 

Indeed. If it even happens, I don't see it happening too quickly, and just as soon as they finish rebalancing some of the Pref MM tanks (which will likely still end up being jokes), more tanks will be added that will quickly push them into oblivion.

_Major_Tomato #13 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:00

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My thoughts on the end of Pref MM...  So many people are so incredibly dramatic about this issue.  Personally I am in a wait and see frame of mind on this.  I don't think it's the end of the game, or the end of the world or even close.  If anyone quits the game over this, well they were probably done anyway.

 

On the negative side, I don't think I believe WG when they say it will "fix" MM performance.  I don't think there is anything wrong with the MM performance so I don't think this should be a priority for them.  For a priority standpoint, I would rather see them change MM to a +1 model and do away with +2 which would make the game more fun for everyone.  So I don't understand their real motivation.  (though there are no end to the doomsayers conspiracy theories here)  

 

On the positive side, I am hopeful that it will bring back many old powercreeped tanks to relevance such as the ones you mention.  So many of these tanks are overmatched even with pref MM.  If they do it right, and they buff the Super Pershing and IS6 etc... to be on the same level as other tanks of their tier and class, then that seems like a really good thing for people who bought them a long time ago.  You'll get basically a new tank.  And if you don't like it there is a trade in possibility.  Also on the trade in thing, I think a lot of people reacted very negatively because WG mentioned you m ight have to pay gold.   They did later clarify, yeah, you'd pay gold if you were trading up, like from a tier 6 to tier 8, which just makes sense.  If they do this right I think it could be a good thing.



Dutch_323 #14 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:00

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Buffing the performance characteristics of tanks sets off a chain reaction that is what came to be known as powercreep.  Alter, or improve one, and it just causes problems for other tanks; which in turn the owners of those tanks become unhappy and cry powercreep because their previous king of the hill doesn't perform as well against the buffed tanks.  And, demand that their tanks are buffed to counter that threat.  Any one tank that is buffed will affect the game play in the two tiers below it; as well as the two tiers above it.  Thus more "adjustment" is needed.

 

Vicious cycle.  It's no different than any other arms race; except that this is a game where we're all shooting at each other in make believe with pixel tanks.

 

I don't claim to have the answers. But, during my short time in this game it's become obvious. 



gpc_4 #15 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:06

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I think they might actually get around to doing something in about 2024. There has been a big backlash. I expect them to backdown. Even if it does go forward, it will take years and years to alter all the pref MM tanks. I wouldn't worry about it. 



Lucudus58 #16 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:08

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View PostxXTheGameAceXx, on Jul 08 2018 - 17:04, said:

Pretty much what the title says. I'm curious what everyone else thinks about what we've been hearing about WG working on taking Preferential Matchmaking out of the game, and the effects it will have on both MM and the tanks themselves. Personally, I don't think it will do much to standard MM, but I do think it may force Wargaming to finally take a look at some of the older, unloved, power-crept junk piles that are sitting in our garages, and give them some of the love they deserve. Who knows, the crappy old Stug IV might actually get some of the buffs we've talked about on the forums before, and become a tank that's actually worth using to some extent!

I'll go ahead for the heck of it and list off the Pref MM tanks I currently have, the issues, and some changes that I think would make them better suited for standard MM. Note that these are my opinions, and you may or may not agree. No need to get nasty about it if you think the changes are crazy.

 

For me, I know I currently have 3 Pref MM tanks, so this topic is something I'm very interested in currently.

*IS-6B

*Super Pershing (Love it so much!)

*Stug IV

 

Personally, I just want to list some quick issues with these that I think are the root causes for them to be Pref MM tanks to begin with.

*Super Pershing

  •  Very low speed for a medium tank due to the armor. Forces it most of the time to brawl with heavies and stick nearby other tanks so that it doesn't risk getting flanked, and generally makes the Super P incapable of flanking itself to take care of threats that it can't face frontally.
  • Sub-par gun. While it wouldn't be terrible if the Super P had good speed and brawled with other mediums, 192 penetration already has some struggles with some heavies, especially where you have to carefully aim, giving opponents the opportunity to focus in on one of your weakspots, or  just load gold into you. It also can't deal with a lot of tanks such as the Defender, without loading a lot of gold.
  • Armor is solid, but riddled with weakspots (upper plate mini gun, top of turret, cheeks of turret under the armor plates, tracks up front right behind the armor plate, very top of the upper plate, armor plates to the sides of the gun mantlet, just the portions right near the mantlet, area right under the mini gun), and a lot of stronger upper tier tanks or gold spammers can pen the armor without a problem in most locations as well.

 

Personally as I see it, those are the big issues with the Super P. It's essentially a medium with the armor and speed of a heavy, but the gun of a weak medium. Also personally as I see it, the solution to make it work without the pref MM would be as follows:

  • Increase gun penetration and alpha. Pen to help it deal with some of the newer tanks that have powercreeped/armorcreeped the Super P, and alpha just so that it can put out some more respectable damage for dealing with heavies. 240 on average per shot isn't going to do much to a tier 10. (+40 imo wouldn't be bad, putting it up to 280)
  • Reduce armor weak spots and slightly increase armor thickness. I listed quite a few dang weakspots that this thing has, and at least from my perspective, it doesn't need to deal with that many, especially since quite a few tanks now tend to either only have a lower plate and cupola weakspot, or just a few smaller ones in general, and a slight increase in armor thickness helps to deal with at least non-gold shots from Tier 10 tanks.
  • Slight buff to Power/Weight ratio/engine horsepower. Just a bit of extra power to it wouldn't be bad, especially for climbing hills. (Moreso even on Westfield, where it gets started at the bottom of the hill and has to make a slow painful climb)

 

*IS-6/IS-6B

  • Weak gun with terrible handling. 175 pen, 0.46 dispersion (tied with my Type 5's derp gun), and a 3.4 second aim time. Can I get Terrible Guns for $500, Alex?
  • Terrible frontal armor. You can easily penetrate most of the front of the IS-6 with pretty much any Tier 7 or higher tank. Ironically the lower plate is actually stronger and can bounce shots. You can also pen it straight through the turret right by the gun mantlet without a problem.
  • Weak view range. 350 view range would be fine ordinarily, but considering newer tanks over time, this has become pathetic and it ends up getting hammered from a distance if it has no support. (More of a minor complaint though. Not too big of a deal.)

 

Solutions:

  • Swap armor thickness of upper and lower plates. Not too hard or farfetched in my opinion, and makes it fit right in with other similar heavies.
  • Increase thickness of frontal turret weakspot. Not too big of a deal for the tank, but because of the terrible accuracy and aimtime (which it has to rely on heavily as-is to pen most tanks) of it's current gun, it's left highly susceptible in a close-range fight.
  • Replace the gun. I'm not even going to say buff the gun at this point, because that thing is pretty much just the gun of the IS with a slightly faster RoF. It's an absolute joke, and to buff it well enough would pretty much change almost every aspect of the gun anyways. The only reason it even works on the IS is because it can more often than not get top and mid tier, facing far lesser armor and threats. For a tier 8 premium heavy, it should have a gun that can stand up to other tanks without the need of gold spam and a prayer that RNG won't screw you over.

 

Lastly, before I bore everyone to death or people start throwing tomatoes at me because they don't agree, the Stug IV. The Stug IV is essentially supposed to be an even better version of the Stug III G, right? Yeah, that's what pretty much everyone would think, but no, it's a junk pile that gets out-performed by the Stug III G in almost every way. (I mean hey, it's got Pref MM for a reason)

 

*Stug IV

  • Outdone in pretty much every aspect by it's standard tech tree counterpart.
  • Penetration is 40 less than the Stug IV with 25 less alpha. This means sniping with AP rounds across a good distance drops a good deal of penetration already, and you're going to bounce a lot of shots. Definitely can't keep up in Tier 7 matches with that weak gun.
  • Slightly less gun depression and 5 degrees less of gun arc than the Stug III G.
  • Accuracy is alright, but 0.02 lower than the III G.
  • Engine and Power to Weight ratio are much lower compared to the III G. (by 140 and 7 points respectively)
  • 30 less rear armor and 2 less top speed than the Stug III G.

 

While some of these issues may seem trivial (such as the rear armor and slightly less accuracy), from my perspective at least this should be a better tank than the Stug III G due to being a reward tank and essentially an upgraded counterpart, and it hardly is in any manner. (Better radio range, and +10 HP are the only real upgrades.)

 

Solutions:

  • Pretty much just buff this thing to match the Stug III G, and just add a few increases.
  • Slightly higher alpha and penetration or RoF compared to the Stug III G.
  • Slight increase to frontal armor.
  • Slight increase to view range. +10 to 320 would be decent for the tier.

 

And that's pretty much it! I know this is a bit of a long post (or at least long for me to write it up), but take the time to tell me what you think and maybe even add in your own Pref MM tanks and what changes you think should be applied for the removal of their Pref MM.

 

Boy what kind of drugs are you on lol.

 

 

 

 

 

I got IS6 T54Mod and I get tier 10 98 per cent of the time lol lol



xXTheGameAceXx #17 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:09

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View PostLucudus58, on Jul 08 2018 - 13:08, said:

 

Boy what kind of drugs are you on lol.

 

 

 

 

 

I got IS6 T54Mod and I get tier 10 98 per cent of the time lol lol

 

What are you even going on about so randomly?

Bogart1943 #18 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:21

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View PostLintinPocket, on Jul 08 2018 - 09:28, said:

Already sold most of my MM tanks. Sold most of my Prem (42) tanks. I frankly do not care what they do to them because whatever it is I don't want it.

 

I'm with you on the whole " whatever it is I don't want it" thing, but why sell off your tanks BEFORE you even know what is going to be the outcome?

spud_tuber #19 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:22

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View PostLucudus58, on Jul 08 2018 - 12:08, said:

 

Boy what kind of drugs are you on lol.

 

 

 

 

 

I got IS6 T54Mod and I get tier 10 98 per cent of the time lol lol

I'd like to ask you the same question.

 

After all, the IS-6 doesn't see T10s unless you're fail tooning.



anonym_xZVHqpeTymPe #20 Posted Jul 08 2018 - 19:51

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I get the feeling that the server population decline (all servers) is the driving factor for changing Premium MM tanks. I know, I know. The talk of eliminating premium MM tanks from the game has been around for years, literally.

 

In addition to the fact they want to sell them again, but primarily they want their 3,5,7 MM to combat the player base decline. I agree with WG if you look at it from a "prolong the life of the game" purview, that premium mm tanks kinda screws things up when the server pop is so low that games are hard to get into. Speculation, yes. But, my business intuition is telling me that they are plotting their demise and collecting $$$ as the ship sinks. Game is old. WG's behavior toward its player base has frightened away the new and the loyal alike. No amount of righting will keep this ship from foundering.

 

With that said, enjoy it while the Premium MM lasts. We all know WG isn't listening to those who actually spend money on the tanks, premium time, and so forth. 

 






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