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When is Frontline coming back?


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Nunya_000 #41 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 03:19

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View PostAvalon304, on Jul 12 2018 - 15:30, said:

 

Yes, but not meaningfully enough to make winning the better option in Frontlines. You got nearly as many credits on a loss where you farmed lots of damage as you did on a win where you didnt do as much damage. In Frontlines if you wanted more credits, you didnt need to win, you just needed to do more damage to enemies. Which is why in game, here on the forums and on Reddit people kept complaining that people should stop winning in Frontlines and just use it as a mode to grind credits.

 

WRT "farming" damage theres a time and a place for it. Often the distinction is made between "good" damage and "trash" damage. Farming damage when a match is already decided (as most people do) is trash, because the game has already been won or lost. Farming damage also, in most cases, is done by sitting further back and not actually being engaged in the match. If youre getting early damage, and bleeding tanks as they get into position, if youre doing it from the front or in support of those tanks doing the spotting, youre doing good damage.

 

In randoms, damage matters way more because in randoms you get a single life and removing tanks from the game is drastically more important. In Frontlines, damage is a means to an end, and (perhaps ironically) capping is the far more important objective and since you can respawn, damages effect on the match is less important.

 

Maybe that is why FL was so popular with so many.  Players didn't have to worry about "winning" all the time.  They could just shoot other tanks and play.  They could rack up a good payday without the stress of worrying about stats or even the outcome of the battle.  They basically played a game.

 

As I said, I understand about "trash" farming, but I doubt if too many good players have that are their go-to method.  If a good player wins more, then the late battle damage is more likely at the other end of the map near the red cap.  While I have seen some good players pushing the back map edge, it is not very often.  



Avalon304 #42 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 05:21

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View PostNunya_000, on Jul 12 2018 - 19:19, said:

 

Maybe that is why FL was so popular with so many.  Players didn't have to worry about "winning" all the time.  They could just shoot other tanks and play.  They could rack up a good payday without the stress of worrying about stats or even the outcome of the battle.  They basically played a game.

 

As I said, I understand about "trash" farming, but I doubt if too many good players have that are their go-to method.  If a good player wins more, then the late battle damage is more likely at the other end of the map near the red cap.  While I have seen some good players pushing the back map edge, it is not very often.  

 

If the ONLY reason you (you in this case being any player making this claim, not you in particular) were playing FL was because it made good money then it wasnt a good mode, despite you. And that was one of the other points I was making. It wasnt a good mode... it was just an easy credit farm. (The other irony here being that if you won games quickly, you could likely have gotten more credits per hour than farming lots of damage but losing).

 

Now, anyone can play a game for whatever reason they want, and Im not going to tell them theyre wrong... but the whole point of a game (any game) is to win. Nobody likes losing. Removing the penalty for losing (or not having one in the first place) means there are no stakes and no drive to do anything other than farm for credits. Lots of people get caught up in the "why are you worrying about stats" argument, but its not about stats its about the entire point of any game in history: to win. If I were WG the next version of frontlines would be unchanged, except the penalty for losing would be 0 credits and XP earned for the battle AFTER repair and resupply. (Honestly they should do something like that and see how many people switch from "THIS MODE IS THE BEST THING EVER" to "THIS MODE IS GARBAGE YOU  SUCK WG". Because I have the very distinct feeling that 90% of people who praised the first iteration would flip sides).

 

Right... so when you see players complaining about good players farming damage its generally because they dont understand that distinction. In the case of FL in particular, farming damage resulted in pretty much all trash damage, because damage in Frontlines was not nearly as important compared to randoms. (Obviously you cant cap a base without doing damage to defenders and keeping them away from you, but doing that damage isnt nearly as important as the actual act of capping the base. (or defending the base as the case may be).



iron_crosstx #43 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 05:32

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frontline gave me a reason to play tanks again.  I think ive played maybe 20 games since. just tired of getting one shot, having my heavily armored tanks act like my suburban has more armor then they do, and having to fight 8-10 of my own team mates because they are window licking, cool aid drinking morons

BillT #44 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 07:02

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View PostAvalon304, on Jul 12 2018 - 23:21, said:

 

If the ONLY reason you (you in this case being any player making this claim, not you in particular) were playing FL was because it made good money then it wasnt a good mode, despite you. 

 

Now, anyone can play a game for whatever reason they want, and Im not going to tell them theyre wrong... but the whole point of a game (any game) is to win. Removing the penalty for losing (or not having one in the first place) means there are no stakes and no drive to do anything other than farm for credits.

 

By the same token, you could say that if the only reason you run Tier 8 premium tanks in random battles is because they make good money, that's not a good game mode, either.

 

But let's not over-simplify.  Credits weren't the only reason people liked FL.  Single-tier matching was a huge reason.  Re-spawn was probably a reason, too.  Players who die faster than average -- and that's about half the players in the game -- probably liked a mode where that didn't mean "Game Over".  (Heck, I liked that feature, too, not least because it was a good way to learn.  If I got killed advancing, I could often re-spawn and try a different approach against approximately the same defense before the situation changed too much.)

 

The point of a game is to win... sure, I get what you mean. Else why keep score, right?  But when a high school coach tells his kids, "There's more to the game than winning and losing," is he just BSing them?  I don't think so.  The point of  a game is to have fun, and winning isn't the only way to do  that.   If winning is the only point, then a game like WOT, whose design guarantees that 90% of players can't win more than 55% or so of their battles, is doomed to be frustrating for that 90%.  It seems natural to me to find other ways to measure success (have fun) besides just winning.  Some people pursue Wn8 and MOEs.  Others get their satisfaction from unlocking new tanks and modules.  I feel good when I finish near the top of my team roster, or when I out-perform  tanks two tiers higher than me, or when I was the top-scoring SPG on either team, etc.  

 

 I think my mental reward system thus resembles how WOT assigns XP: I feel good about doing damage, spotting, etc. If we win, I get 50% bonus fun - but even in a loss, I can have fun and feel like my time was well spent. The only games I hate are the ones where I don't play well, and in that case winning is just a small (often, unwanted) consolation prize.  (Who wants to blow their X5  victory on a zero-damage game?)

What I'm getting to is that yes, there must be a reward for winning, but perhaps it shouldn't be as large as it currently is.  Maybe instead of a 50% bonus for winning, it should be 25%., or even 10%  Maybe that would still be enough of a bonus to make players work to win, but not so much that it kills their fun if they lose.  But I think it's clear that a player's preference in this regard depends on how competitive they are.  



Frostblitz20 #45 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 07:09

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It’s not happening this month or next due to global map event and rank battles.

SwedishEOD #46 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 08:45

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Just wait and see , I predict WG will change pretty much everything about FL , especially the economy of that mode , wich was way too good for being a part of this game.

Next iteration of FL will have worse economy by a mile and people will stop playing it....

 

Prove me wrong WG , please.......



Nunya_000 #47 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 14:20

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View PostAvalon304, on Jul 12 2018 - 20:21, said:

 

If the ONLY reason you (you in this case being any player making this claim, not you in particular) were playing FL was because it made good money then it wasnt a good mode, despite you. And that was one of the other points I was making. It wasnt a good mode... it was just an easy credit farm. (The other irony here being that if you won games quickly, you could likely have gotten more credits per hour than farming lots of damage but losing).

 

Now, anyone can play a game for whatever reason they want, and Im not going to tell them theyre wrong... but the whole point of a game (any game) is to win. Nobody likes losing. Removing the penalty for losing (or not having one in the first place) means there are no stakes and no drive to do anything other than farm for credits. Lots of people get caught up in the "why are you worrying about stats" argument, but its not about stats its about the entire point of any game in history: to win. If I were WG the next version of frontlines would be unchanged, except the penalty for losing would be 0 credits and XP earned for the battle AFTER repair and resupply. (Honestly they should do something like that and see how many people switch from "THIS MODE IS THE BEST THING EVER" to "THIS MODE IS GARBAGE YOU  SUCK WG". Because I have the very distinct feeling that 90% of people who praised the first iteration would flip sides).

 

Right... so when you see players complaining about good players farming damage its generally because they dont understand that distinction. In the case of FL in particular, farming damage resulted in pretty much all trash damage, because damage in Frontlines was not nearly as important compared to randoms. (Obviously you cant cap a base without doing damage to defenders and keeping them away from you, but doing that damage isnt nearly as important as the actual act of capping the base. (or defending the base as the case may be).

 

The point of playing any game is for entertainment.  Not all games are played for the sole purpose of winning.

 

About 10 years ago, our neighborhood would play softball games.  We would make a field in one of our pastures and all summer long there would be games played.  I do not think that we even kept score.

 

Some people like pickup basketball games at their local gym.  I have played quite a few pick-up games in quite a few different places where some players did not even keep score.

 

If you (and I mean the collective "you ) are so competitive that you feel winning is the goal for every game, then I feel sorry for you.  People like that, while they really enjoy it when winning, losing can really depress them.  You are correct that many people do not like losing, but there are many people that are not so focused on winning and losing that they lose focus on the purpose of the game.....to have fun.  Sure, winning is fun, but actually having fun is much, much better.

 

For me, i play for the entertainment value.  Sure, I like to win battles and will try to win battles, but if I lose a battle, I don't even remember the loss much longer than it takes to hit the Battle button again.......but then, I play World of Tanks....not World of Stats.

 



Rimrender #48 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 14:23

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View PostAvalon304, on Jul 12 2018 - 23:21, said:

 

If the ONLY reason you (you in this case being any player making this claim, not you in particular) were playing FL was because it made good money then it wasnt a good mode, despite you. And that was one of the other points I was making. It wasnt a good mode... it was just an easy credit farm. (The other irony here being that if you won games quickly, you could likely have gotten more credits per hour than farming lots of damage but losing).

 

Now, anyone can play a game for whatever reason they want, and Im not going to tell them theyre wrong... but the whole point of a game (any game) is to win. Nobody likes losing. Removing the penalty for losing (or not having one in the first place) means there are no stakes and no drive to do anything other than farm for credits. Lots of people get caught up in the "why are you worrying about stats" argument, but its not about stats its about the entire point of any game in history: to win. If I were WG the next version of frontlines would be unchanged, except the penalty for losing would be 0 credits and XP earned for the battle AFTER repair and resupply. (Honestly they should do something like that and see how many people switch from "THIS MODE IS THE BEST THING EVER" to "THIS MODE IS GARBAGE YOU  SUCK WG". Because I have the very distinct feeling that 90% of people who praised the first iteration would flip sides).

 

Right... so when you see players complaining about good players farming damage its generally because they dont understand that distinction. In the case of FL in particular, farming damage resulted in pretty much all trash damage, because damage in Frontlines was not nearly as important compared to randoms. (Obviously you cant cap a base without doing damage to defenders and keeping them away from you, but doing that damage isnt nearly as important as the actual act of capping the base. (or defending the base as the case may be).

 

Sounds a lot like a "True Believer's" attacks against atheism. "How can you have basic morals unless you share in my sky fairy?!"



_smf_ #49 Posted Jul 13 2018 - 21:30

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Wargaming wants to hopefully bring it back this year sometime..  I was watching this video on youtube and they talk about frontline mode and new maps.  Goto 14:30 in the video. https://www.youtube....h?v=QJZoBO7b1ws 17:45 for frontline info

 


Edited by _smf_, Jul 13 2018 - 21:34.


DrWho_ #50 Posted Jul 14 2018 - 00:08

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View PostNunya_000, on Jul 13 2018 - 00:12, said:

 

 

OK.....more damage = more credits/XP.  I understand that, but the math does not add up.  Don't players get even more credits/XP if they win? (I never got to play FL much, so maybe not). 

 

 

 

 

In that case let me first offer an apology for my earlier comment, I just assumed an active player such as yourself had plenty of experience of FL and was just being difficult, guess that wasn't the case and I'm sorry about that because I prefer to keep things civil

I see this thread has moved on a bit and the "damage farming" has been explained in detail.

The problem with FL, as I see it, wasn't the basic idea because quite frankly I thing this game needs something that however

 

1. It needs a bigger incentive for winning

 

2. The respawn camping sucked BIG TIME. If the opposing team ended up totally controlling one sector people chose another sector to spawn in but those sectors filled up and those few players that was left behind was farmed over and over again when they respawned in front of an overwhelming force because there was no other option for them

 

3. Not crazy about the whole "air strike/arty strike" thing as that just added more arty but that's something I could get used to

 

4. It was for tier 8 only, but since this was more of a public beta I'm guessing it will available for other tiers eventually 

 

Off of the top of my head these are my major gripes about FL and after I discovered that people were just sitting around farming damage, not even in strategically important places around the caps, I stopped trying to cap/defend the cap and just joined them in farming damage, my Caernarvon was pretty decent at ridge line sniping as it turned out. That quickly grew old and with few people supporting the push for win I went back to randoms after about a week

How to fix this I don't know but unless they do, especially the damage farming, but unless they do I won't be playing it when it returns. Which would be a shame really since it showed signs that it could be a fun mose and it was so for about a week until the farming thing started, at least for me 



Deputy276 #51 Posted Jul 14 2018 - 00:14

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View PostSwedishEOD, on Jul 13 2018 - 01:45, said:

Just wait and see , I predict WG will change pretty much everything about FL , especially the economy of that mode , wich was way too good for being a part of this game.

Next iteration of FL will have worse economy by a mile and people will stop playing it....

 

Prove me wrong WG , please.......

 

Think you may have nailed it, bro. :)

Nunya_000 #52 Posted Jul 14 2018 - 01:17

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View PostDrWho_, on Jul 13 2018 - 15:08, said:

 

In that case let me first offer an apology for my earlier comment, I just assumed an active player such as yourself had plenty of experience of FL and was just being difficult, guess that wasn't the case and I'm sorry about that because I prefer to keep things civil

I see this thread has moved on a bit and the "damage farming" has been explained in detail.

The problem with FL, as I see it, wasn't the basic idea because quite frankly I thing this game needs something that however

 

1. It needs a bigger incentive for winning

 

2. The respawn camping sucked BIG TIME. If the opposing team ended up totally controlling one sector people chose another sector to spawn in but those sectors filled up and those few players that was left behind was farmed over and over again when they respawned in front of an overwhelming force because there was no other option for them

 

3. Not crazy about the whole "air strike/arty strike" thing as that just added more arty but that's something I could get used to

 

4. It was for tier 8 only, but since this was more of a public beta I'm guessing it will available for other tiers eventually 

 

Off of the top of my head these are my major gripes about FL and after I discovered that people were just sitting around farming damage, not even in strategically important places around the caps, I stopped trying to cap/defend the cap and just joined them in farming damage, my Caernarvon was pretty decent at ridge line sniping as it turned out. That quickly grew old and with few people supporting the push for win I went back to randoms after about a week

How to fix this I don't know but unless they do, especially the damage farming, but unless they do I won't be playing it when it returns. Which would be a shame really since it showed signs that it could be a fun mose and it was so for about a week until the farming thing started, at least for me 

 

Unfortunately, I was unable to play many battles in FL (many 2...I think).  My internet had an issue with the dropsies and it was in a bad state at the time.  It is fixed now, so I am really looking forward to FL being brought back.

 

However, going with me just being difficult was probably a logical conclusion in some cases.  :teethhappy:



dunniteowl #53 Posted Jul 14 2018 - 01:46

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I only played it one time.  Not that I didn't want to, it's just I have a rotten potato for a computer.  Since 1.0 my fps went down to around 8fps from a prior of about 17fps.  I could do "old time movie" speed, but slideshows are tougher to time.

 

That said, having only the two gift tanks for the event I played once when my ping was under 90ms and I had a blast!  My first tank lasted two full rounds and I did a fair amount of spotting and damage for my first time in a tier VIII (other than maybe four or six other rental matches prior).  I even managed two sneaking flank attacks on HVY tanks preoccupied with frontal units that gave me time to literally go around the hill and flank two different times.

 

The size is what I liked.  There is room enough for real confusion, real risk taking and proper levels of distance and movement paths to make pretty much everything you do a gamble.  I liked that aspect of it very much.  To me, that's what made the mode more fun -- there was more uncertainty and more opportunity to be creative.

 

Can't wait 'til it comes back and hope I get a better potato or even a real computer again before that happens.

 

 

OvO



blagger #54 Posted Jul 14 2018 - 01:59

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Its not or it would have been already

Osium #55 Posted Jul 15 2018 - 20:56

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View PostThe_Illusive_Man, on Jul 11 2018 - 03:44, said:

Frontlines should be the main mode.... To much fun. And there is NO tier spread....

 

This. They should bring it back for t5 and up. I came back for it, bought a premium just to play it in that mode, then it ended, I played for another week, and quit again with no intent to go back until Frontlines is back. I imagine they are running/have run the population metrics to see if there was a noticeable uptick in players and correspondingly money spent while it ran. If it bumped the numbers/money up I can't expect they won't bring it back on a more permanent basis.

 



Osium #56 Posted Jul 15 2018 - 21:00

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View Postdunniteowl, on Jul 14 2018 - 00:46, said:

I only played it one time.  Not that I didn't want to, it's just I have a rotten potato for a computer.  Since 1.0 my fps went down to around 8fps from a prior of about 17fps.  I could do "old time movie" speed, but slideshows are tougher to time.

 

That said, having only the two gift tanks for the event I played once when my ping was under 90ms and I had a blast!  My first tank lasted two full rounds and I did a fair amount of spotting and damage for my first time in a tier VIII (other than maybe four or six other rental matches prior).  I even managed two sneaking flank attacks on HVY tanks preoccupied with frontal units that gave me time to literally go around the hill and flank two different times.

 

The size is what I liked.  There is room enough for real confusion, real risk taking and proper levels of distance and movement paths to make pretty much everything you do a gamble.  I liked that aspect of it very much.  To me, that's what made the mode more fun -- there was more uncertainty and more opportunity to be creative.

 

Can't wait 'til it comes back and hope I get a better potato or even a real computer again before that happens.

 

 

OvO

 

You might be plagued with the sound bug. A LOT of people have it. Basically, check your audio drivers, lot of people have multiple audio drivers enabled, and Tanks was using all of them, so it was loading everything multiple times. Make sure if you have nvidia graphics card, that you haven't got multiple audio drivers installed. So either go into your device manager and check, and disable/uninstall any extras that might be.

 

For example, I went from loading into Frontlines about 2 minutes AFTER the match started, to loading in before the count down even started.



dunniteowl #57 Posted Jul 15 2018 - 22:36

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View PostOsium, on Jul 15 2018 - 14:00, said:

 

You might be plagued with the sound bug. A LOT of people have it. Basically, check your audio drivers, lot of people have multiple audio drivers enabled, and Tanks was using all of them, so it was loading everything multiple times. Make sure if you have nvidia graphics card, that you haven't got multiple audio drivers installed. So either go into your device manager and check, and disable/uninstall any extras that might be.

 

For example, I went from loading into Frontlines about 2 minutes AFTER the match started, to loading in before the count down even started.

 

My drivers are fine as far as they can be.  My laptop was made in 2010.  It's not just a potato, it's a rotten potato.  Some of my keys don't work that well, like the "I" "W" "A" and the left CTRL key sometimes either require a machine press level of effort to make work or just don't work a few times in a row at all.  I'm just too far behind the current (or even considered 'slightly dated'  ) technology curve.  I'm okay with that, though it can be frustrating, it also builds character.  :D

 

I also have wireless internet which sees no cable from the antenna at my house to theirs seven miles away.  I live in the sticks, far from the rest of the world.  It's a fair price to pay and I accept it.  I'll figure something out, I'm sure.  I always do.

 

[edit, had to re-re-re-retype the "i" in fair price]

 

 

OvO


Edited by dunniteowl, Jul 15 2018 - 22:38.


o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7 #58 Posted Yesterday, 03:16 AM

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never. its a cancer mode where you camp for 30 minutes




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