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WN9? Simple fix for WN8


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Mokoma #41 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 20:24

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With regard to clan applications specifically, just look at their performance in the tiers you’re interested in for competitive play as a shortcut (can’t you do that via clantools? Been a while.)

But overall, you can get a good idea of a player’s skill by looking at winrate, wn8, and average tier.

_Kradok_ #42 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 21:35

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For clans - platooning/running stronks is the easiest way to identify a player's ability to follow calls, think on their own proactively, and contribute...

 

As for wn8... make it like the MOE's - tier 5+ only?  Or tier 6?  below that doesn't/shouldn't matter.

 

 

BUT - when I want a vacation from the game, I used to enjoy the proving ground - now that it's gone - that falls to tier 2-3.  The FPak is a fun tank - stats aside, it's just fun for me to play it - especially in an FPak platoon.



_Red_Saaryn_ #43 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 21:43

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View PostXxMOJOBALLSxX, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:31, said:

XVM doesn't have a win chance anymore, just FYI

No but still has the pretty colors that make many elitist jerks rage quit and take allies with them so yes it still is salty as fek



Rush_91 #44 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 02:11

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View PostF0R_M07H3R_RU5514, on Jul 11 2018 - 16:40, said:

 

 

 

 

Chance to win is now a misnomer.  As I understand it, the XVM metric is (now) simply a collective WN8 comparison, and is not intended to be a "Win Chance".

It's still called win chance but yeah it's just a wn8 comparison. On a side note you're FATE aren't you?



Knagar #45 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 10:24

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View PostMacDaddyMatty, on Jul 11 2018 - 09:27, said:

- WN8 encourages stat padding / seal clubbing.

 

I've got a pretty not bad WN8, and while I like to see that number climb, I don't stat pad or seal club.

 

I think people have this misunderstood theory that a good WN8 means stat padding. Granted of you look and they are either rerolled, or spent 3/4 of games played in OP tanks like the E25, sure yoy could call stat pad shenanigans.

 

And honestly, you might see an actual seal clubbing stat padder at lower tiers maybe once every few games? It's not a big of a problem requiring change as you make it out to be.

 

On top of that it is their money, their account, and nothing in the ToS or EULA says someone can't play every game at lower tiers in an OP tank spamming premium. Until you start paying for them premium time and topping off their gold reserves, you really can't tell them how to play either.

 

If anything it would be nice if WN8 encouraged more people to get better, would have better games and less people complaining that MM is out to get them.



Knagar #46 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 10:26

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View Post_Red_Saaryn_, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:43, said:

No but still has the pretty colors that make many elitist jerks rage quit and take allies with them so yes it still is salty as fek

 

It doesn't, but you keep thinking that.

 

People may complain when they see a team of total tomatoes, but it's very rare that they quit or yolo off into the sunset.



MacDaddyMatty #47 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 12:41

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View PostMokoma, on Jul 11 2018 - 14:24, said:

With regard to clan applications specifically, just look at their performance in the tiers you’re interested in for competitive play as a shortcut (can’t you do that via clantools? Been a while.)

But overall, you can get a good idea of a player’s skill by looking at winrate, wn8, and average tier.

 

I'll tinker some more with Clan tools. Thanks!

 

View Post_Kradok_, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:35, said:

For clans - platooning/running stronks is the easiest way to identify a player's ability to follow calls, think on their own proactively, and contribute...

 

As for wn8... make it like the MOE's - tier 5+ only?  Or tier 6?  below that doesn't/shouldn't matter.

 

 

BUT - when I want a vacation from the game, I used to enjoy the proving ground - now that it's gone - that falls to tier 2-3.  The FPak is a fun tank - stats aside, it's just fun for me to play it - especially in an FPak platoon.

 

When I need a break from WoT I play WoWP (since they gave me so many premium planes).  but I'm usually only interested for 2-3 matches, and then I go:

"BORED NOW".


 

View PostKnagar, on Jul 12 2018 - 04:24, said:

 

I've got a pretty not bad WN8, and while I like to see that number climb, I don't stat pad or seal club.

 

I think people have this misunderstood theory that a good WN8 means stat padding. Granted of you look and they are either rerolled, or spent 3/4 of games played in OP tanks like the E25, sure yoy could call stat pad shenanigans.

 

And honestly, you might see an actual seal clubbing stat padder at lower tiers maybe once every few games? It's not a big of a problem requiring change as you make it out to be.

 

On top of that it is their money, their account, and nothing in the ToS or EULA says someone can't play every game at lower tiers in an OP tank spamming premium. Until you start paying for them premium time and topping off their gold reserves, you really can't tell them how to play either.

 

If anything it would be nice if WN8 encouraged more people to get better, would have better games and less people complaining that MM is out to get them.

 

Good post - thanks for that.

As I said, this is about the PITA that comes with clan recruitment.

 

We have D-DAY and HHOUR, 2 sister clans.

Someone applies and there is the process...

Are they a social player? HHOUR

Are they a competitive player? D-DAY, if they have the CW tanks and the WN8.

If not, HHOUR as a feeder till they get the Tanks or WN8 up.

Is the WN8 genuine or manipulated?

Then we invite them on TS for the meet-n-greet, and etc. Make sure the guy is not a rage-a-holic or a twit, etc.


 

It's a process and takes away from my pew-pew+QQ time.

I'm just looking for ways to streamline it.


 


 

Thanks all for the posts.

I do appreciate all the input and many of you guys gave me much to chew on.

o7 forum guys.


 



MacDaddyMatty #48 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 12:45

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And if any of you guys have a TOG, come by our TS tonight at 9pm EST.

We're doing mass TOG drops.

You have not played WoT until you've seen MM try to figure out what to do with 20+ TOGs.

Nothing like a match with 6 on each side.

:D



Whisky_A_Go_Go #49 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 12:46

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Wn9 was abandoned over a year ago. Not one single thing has been done to it since then.

 

The reason for that is simple: Wn9 was going to show stats from solo play, clan wars play, platoon playing and other things of that nature much like World of Warships does.

 

The unicums didn't want that to happen at all because it would be painfully clear to see that most of their win rates and stats don't come from solo random pub matches, but rather strongholds, power platooning non stop and things of that nature.

 

So they let it die a quiet death.



MacDaddyMatty #50 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 12:54

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View PostWhisky_A_Go_Go, on Jul 12 2018 - 06:46, said:

Wn9 was abandoned over a year ago. Not one single thing has been done to it since then.

 

The reason for that is simple: Wn9 was going to show stats from solo play, clan wars play, platoon playing and other things of that nature much like World of Warships does.

 

The unicums didn't want that to happen at all because it would be painfully clear to see that most of their win rates and stats don't come from solo random pub matches, but rather strongholds, power platooning non stop and things of that nature.

 

So they let it die a quiet death.

 

That's a bummer as SHs and CWs are exactly what deets I was hoping to be able to weed out.

:sceptic:

 

I rarely play my Tier 10s outside of CWs and Advances (due to the economy )- and I do CWs/Adv's a lot.

I figure a lot of players are in the same boat.


 

I prob should not have put "WN9" in my subject, it confused the issue a bit me thinks.



spud_tuber #51 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:02

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View PostWhisky_A_Go_Go, on Jul 12 2018 - 05:46, said:

Wn9 was abandoned over a year ago. Not one single thing has been done to it since then.

 

The reason for that is simple: Wn9 was going to show stats from solo play, clan wars play, platoon playing and other things of that nature much like World of Warships does.

 

The unicums didn't want that to happen at all because it would be painfully clear to see that most of their win rates and stats don't come from solo random pub matches, but rather strongholds, power platooning non stop and things of that nature.

 

So they let it die a quiet death.

WN9 was also a pretty bad failure at guessing platoon rate.  It had to guess based on BIA/CC medals vs other medals vs games played.  Especially now, with dynamic platoons, this is a horrible way to guess platoon rate.  I've more BIA medals than the number of times I've entered queue as part of a platoon, for instance.



NeatoMan #52 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:07

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View Posto7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7, on Jul 11 2018 - 11:09, said:

really? because i can tell you tier 10 wn is the most brutal one. the problem with low tiers is the lack of damage NOW but it wasnt that way in the past. observe:

 

http://wotlabs.net/na/player/killju

 

you could farm low tiers for days. back when the game wasnt dead anyway

but you have to be so much better at farming the low tiers to earn a decent WN8.

 

just look at the expected damage you need to do vs HP at various tiers

 

tier 3:  greenWN8 = 300 dpg,    purpleWN8 = 500 dpg,   avg tier 3 hp = 250

tier 6:  greenWN8 = 700 dpg,    purpleWN8 = 1200 dpg,    avg tier 6 hp = 700

tier 10:  greenWN8 = 1600 dpg,    purpleWN8 = 2800 dpg,    avg tier 10 hp = 2000

 

WN8 really does reward mediocre performances more at the higher tiers

 

View Postspud_tuber, on Jul 12 2018 - 10:02, said:

WN9 was also a pretty bad failure at guessing platoon rate.  It had to guess based on BIA/CC medals vs other medals vs games played.  Especially now, with dynamic platoons, this is a horrible way to guess platoon rate.  I've more BIA medals than the number of times I've entered queue as part of a platoon, for instance.

Yep.  My biggest gripe with the creators of the WN series was their failure to account for platoon status.  They bought without question purple player's cries that they give up damage by platooning, and therefore deserved higher WN8s for lower damage.   With their attention to detail on so many other issues, it's surprising that they totally neglected this aspect, and took the hafl-assed approach that they did toward platoons.


Edited by NeatoMan, Jul 12 2018 - 16:13.


SpamNCan #53 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:17

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View PostMacDaddyMatty, on Jul 11 2018 - 14:35, said:

 

:)

Groovy.

Thanks!

+1

 

Funny... I have win % on mine.

Whisky_A_Go_Go #54 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:23

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View Postspud_tuber, on Jul 12 2018 - 10:02, said:

WN9 was also a pretty bad failure at guessing platoon rate. 

 

It didn't guess. It used the API and knew it. What they tried to do was make a "platoon padding" stat to try to hide how much they platooned. What that stat was supposed to do was say, "Well, even though this guy platoons 90% of his games, he only gets carried by the other guys he's in the platoon with 50% of the time".

 

But they couldn't make it work for a lot of the guys that spent most of their time getting carried, so they axed it entirely.



spud_tuber #55 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:28

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View PostWhisky_A_Go_Go, on Jul 12 2018 - 09:23, said:

 

It didn't guess. It used the API and knew it. What they tried to do was make a "platoon padding" stat to try to hide how much they platooned. What that stat was supposed to do was say, "Well, even though this guy platoons 90% of his games, he only gets carried by the other guys he's in the platoon with 50% of the time".

 

But they couldn't make it work for a lot of the guys that spent most of their time getting carried, so they axed it entirely.

You think the API reports platooning? ROFL 



Whisky_A_Go_Go #56 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 16:38

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View Postspud_tuber, on Jul 12 2018 - 10:28, said:

You think the API reports platooning? ROFL 

 

It does. It does for all their games. For instance:

 

 

That's Warships Today for World of Warships. You can see how many platoons, and how many players per platoon.

 

The same exact data is on all the API for Wargaming. It's just that Tankers never wanted people to find out how much they actually had to rely on others for their precious stats, so it has always been a hidden secret...and always will be.



spud_tuber #57 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 17:20

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View PostWhisky_A_Go_Go, on Jul 12 2018 - 09:38, said:

 

It does. It does for all their games. For instance:

 

 

That's Warships Today for World of Warships. You can see how many platoons, and how many players per platoon.

 

The same exact data is on all the API for Wargaming. It's just that Tankers never wanted people to find out how much they actually had to rely on others for their precious stats, so it has always been a hidden secret...and always will be.

Glanced over the API documentation for ships.  Easily found how the API returns different stats based on solo vs division play, though didn't see if it distinguished between dynamic and prebattle divisions.

 

However, after looking over the tank API documentation,  if there's anything in there about platoons, I certainly don't see it.  Perhaps you can point me to it with a link and a screenshot?

 

Edit: or maybe type out an example for my or your API?



_Promote_Synergy_ #58 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 18:04

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Jul 11 2018 - 14:35, said:

Discourage play at every tier below 10 you mean right?? Sounds like just another excuse for rerolls to reroll

 

How many times can I reroll? 2-3 smurfs?

ArmorStorm #59 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 18:08

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View Postthe_dude_76, on Jul 11 2018 - 09:59, said:

 

That's gone now. Apparently there was adware included with the mod so all of the major modpacks removed it. Too bad because I liked it. Unlike XVM, which told you the odds right at the start of the match, it maintained a running total so every time a tank was lost the odds changed.

 

The real fun happened when a terrible player on your team died and your “chance to win” went UP!

ArmorStorm #60 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 18:10

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View Postspud_tuber, on Jul 12 2018 - 10:20, said:

Glanced over the API documentation for ships.  Easily found how the API returns different stats based on solo vs division play, though didn't see if it distinguished between dynamic and prebattle divisions.

 

However, after looking over the tank API documentation,  if there's anything in there about platoons, I certainly don't see it.  Perhaps you can point me to it with a link and a screenshot?

 

Edit: or maybe type out an example for my or your API?

 

Isn’t it those tabs that read “two ship” and “three ship” right next to “solo”?  




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