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The Real Problem with WoT


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Ded_man #21 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 21:25

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View PostSwedishEOD, on Jul 11 2018 - 13:09, said:

 

The problem with this reasoning is that we consider randoms to be a competitive environment, it's not , it's for grinding out tanklines and nothing else. We the playerbase has on our own initiative decided that randoms is the end all be all and stats in randoms are what defines you as a good player.

 

Out of curiosity, who do we blame for this? Sure, the player base has adopted this idea that stats derived from random mode playing are a reflection of a players level of skill. But over the years, clan recruitment requirements, 3rd party metrics, and the fact that WG has no competitive arena that impacts overall stats like they used to in Tank Companies leaves no other alternative.  

 

Where else but in randoms do players who want to not only be accepted statistically as a good player go? Whether to prove to peers, themselves, or the desired clans they seek to join?



anonym_cHaCxLQ6UlZG #22 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 21:37

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The only problem with WOT is "WARGAMING" they created game centered around providing the most revenue to them and completely ignored enjoyable game play, maps are designed to end quickly and tank battle are designed to last minutes so you spend more and more. This is the #1 reason games are failing right after they hit 1.0, because you have release an E.T of a game, and while Atari learnt a very valued lesson about releasing pure crap, Wargaming has not. 

 

As a teacher of game design I use this game as an example of what not to do, its looks great in theory but pure sh*t when implemented with ill intentions :D


Edited by B33rcul3s, Jul 11 2018 - 21:48.


Flarvin #23 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 21:42

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View PostDed_man, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:25, said:

 

Out of curiosity, who do we blame for this? Sure, the player base has adopted this idea that stats derived from random mode playing are a reflection of a players level of skill. But over the years, clan recruitment requirements, 3rd party metrics, and the fact that WG has no competitive arena that impacts overall stats like they used to in Tank Companies leaves no other alternative.  

 

Where else but in randoms do players who want to not only be accepted statistically as a good player go? Whether to prove to peers, themselves, or the desired clans they seek to join?

 

Clan related modes allow for a more competitive environment. 



Ded_man #24 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 21:50

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View PostFlarvin, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:42, said:

 

Clan related modes allow for a more competitive environment. 

 

Exactly, but to get into said clans.....how? The cycle continues, there's no way randoms won't be used as the arena to develop entry into competitive clans. Thus, feed into the playerbase's idea that random mode stats matter. 

BillT #25 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 22:37

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View PostU3S7O_WOL, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:22, said:

 

Second: People play for XP and credits, fair enough, but the way XP is given out encourages people to sit in the back and Stat Pad. Play the Vulture and take only the one-shot kills.  You get NO XP for shooting a building so your team mate can shoot the enemy behind it, you just get to pay for the shell.

 

Waiting for one-shot kills is suboptimal for XP.  XP is based mostly on the damage you do, so using a 300 alpha shell to kill a 50 HP tank is a waste.  There's a small bonus for killing shots, but not enough to be worth losing half the damage of your shell.

The main reason for "vulture" play is to win medals like Top Gun, which are just useless decorations. (Though I guess now, they do earn bonds.)



BillT #26 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 22:40

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View PostB33rcul3s, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:37, said:

The only problem with WOT is "WARGAMING" they created game centered around providing the most revenue to them and completely ignored enjoyable game play, maps are designed to end quickly and tank battle are designed to last minutes so you spend more and more.

 

Why do fast games make you spend more money?  Can you go through the math for me?



OldFrog75 #27 Posted Jul 11 2018 - 23:49

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View PostBillT, on Jul 11 2018 - 13:40, said:

 

Why do fast games make you spend more money?  Can you go through the math for me?

 

I assume it's because more games => more tank repair costs and more consumables, both of which drain credits.

Unicorn_ #28 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 00:01

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The real problem is that there are many problems and WG only cares about profits.

Tankhat #29 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 00:05

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Personally for me, a lot of it has to do with rng. 

You can do everything right, and the enemy can do everything wrong, but they can squeeze a win out because of the roll of a dice. I mean sure, that's how it is with a lot of other games out there, but with the -+ 25% rng factor here, that's just crazy how high of a degree chance affects the game. Nothing is more infuriating than have your shell ricochet off of their engine deck, or whizz harmlessly between the space where the turret meets the hull, when your gun is shooting at them point blank, where 90% of their tank is inside your aiming circle. 

I get that it's a game, but even in unrealistic games like Team Fortress 2, you're not going to magically miss the enemy when you're shooting at them point blank


Flarvin #30 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 00:18

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View PostDed_man, on Jul 11 2018 - 15:50, said:

 

Exactly, but to get into said clans.....how? The cycle continues, there's no way randoms won't be used as the arena to develop entry into competitive clans. Thus, feed into the playerbase's idea that random mode stats matter. 

 

Random battle stats are random battle stats, if used by clans or not. 

 

There is a relatively small amount of players that pub stats will be used determine if they make a certain clan or not. 

 

The vast majority players will never be in a clan, or will be part of a clan that stats don’t matter. 

 

Far too many players worry about WR in pubs, that have nothing to do with clans. 

 

Its the players that overvalue pub stats at are the problem. 



Benner2174 #31 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 00:28

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Its a combinationg of arty and racist WG employees :)

Gunadie #32 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:14

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View PostDed_man, on Jul 11 2018 - 09:51, said:

Well if you look at the name in the replay, clearly you can see this is Doomslinger's alt (whether purposefully posted from or by accident).

 

I don't see anything wrong with the composition though. That map doesn't really favor heavies in a way that a bottom tier O-I can carry like that. I suspect, the mediums and lights decided to camp, helping to take their assets out of the game and the TD's couldn't put in work. Though I haven't watched the replay, it's easy to see who was the aggressor and who were not since barely anyone on the losing team detected much of anything and distance traveled.

 

I figured it was an Alt but I choose to rib instead:trollface:

Gunadie #33 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:18

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View Postgoldfinger_555, on Jul 11 2018 - 09:09, said:

So who decides what the criteria is for advancing to the next tier? One of the elitist here on the forum? No thanks. For how bad some think the game is currently (and yet they still play) it could be a lot worse.

 

Think of it as education 

where one needs to learn a certain amount before graduating to the next level

To me one Elited tank per tier to advance to the next (this means not being able to use a tier 8 premium until the player has Elited up to and including tier 7



Gunadie #34 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:22

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View PostBlackeagle902, on Jul 11 2018 - 09:02, said:

 

That would be totally unfair and discriminative against those players. They cannot play because they are not above 5K PR. I am not and if I want to play T9, I have that chance to do so.  You just have to know when you are out of your league and stop at a certain tier.   

 

And how does a player know they are out of their league if they can buy a tier 8 premium with ZERO games experience and hop right into a tier 8,9,10 game?

Gunadie #35 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:25

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View PostBillT, on Jul 11 2018 - 09:51, said:

 

What percentage of players would you thus exclude from high-tier play?  5%? 20%?  50%?  Every player you exclude has a very good reason to stop spending money on the game, and even to quit, because they aren't allowed to enjoy high-tier content.  I think that by the time you make high tier selective enough to make you happy, you'll chase away enough customers for the game to fail.

 

When I started you couldn't jump into any tier game you didn't earn your way up to and the game really took off and was WAY more exciting than it is now!

(even though the graphics and control are way better now)



Gunadie #36 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:27

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View PostSwedishEOD, on Jul 11 2018 - 10:09, said:

 

The problem with this reasoning is that we consider randoms to be a competitive environment, it's not , it's for grinding out tanklines and nothing else. We the playerbase has on our own initiative decided that randoms is the end all be all and stats in randoms are what defines you as a good player.

 

Then why are you not sitting at tier 1 and 2 and farming stats??

Because Stats does not make for good games and neither do inexperienced players!

Inexperienced players in higher tier games are only good for stat farming

Its a game and its meant to be fun..I guess you find your fun by preying and beating up the smaller kids on the block, huh?

 



Gunadie #37 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:33

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View PostSRozell, on Jul 11 2018 - 10:19, said:

 

Perfect way to push already low population numbers even lower. The problem is people who just start the game buy tier 8 p2w tanks shoot p2w ammo muddle their way into tier 9 and 10 without actually having to ever learn how to team play tanks. Not that it would matter since WG can't seem to or won't balance grinding lines anyways, it's going to happen. You want competitive play then I suggest you try a different game because your never going to have competitive play in WoT. The game is not designed around competitive play it's designed around squeezing ever dollar they can out of the player base.

 

At least in the beginning it was a competition against one self to advance 

Now its the easy button from Wot that players buy in the form of Prem accounts and tanks that has removed that.



Gunadie #38 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:38

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View PostFlarvin, on Jul 11 2018 - 12:11, said:

 

Then that is your problem. 

 

Don’t expect others to feel as you do. WG defines what is allowed in random battles, not you. 

 

So I will continue to play for fun. lol

 

But many players want some level of competitiveness, I know I do!

What "spoil" every tier or game with the likelihood that there are some that just want to PEW PEW and have a Sunday drive!

Maybe the game should be changed to "World Of Tankies" in that case!  



Gunadie #39 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:41

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View PostSpamNCan, on Jul 11 2018 - 12:21, said:

No part of this game can be called 'competitive'. Name any other competitive game that allows one player a huge advantage over another because they played that character more.

 

-My AWP in CS shoots faster than yours because I used it more.

-My McCree is more accurate because I have improved sights on my 6 shooter.

-I run faster in PubG because I have more wins than you.

 

WoTs vehicle add-ons,crew skills and advanced directives prevent it from ever being so. 

 

That's why the separation of players experience is even more important as one progresses into upper tier play!

Gunadie #40 Posted Jul 12 2018 - 07:46

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View PostBillT, on Jul 11 2018 - 13:40, said:

 

Why do fast games make you spend more money?  Can you go through the math for me?

 

I think War Gamings reasoning is to improve Que times so there is reduced waiting to play!




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