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French autoloader AMX 50 120 & AMX 50B have NO pen power


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ACandieCaneKilling #1 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 10:13

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The AMX 50 120 tier IX heavy tank has awful, terrible pen & can easily bounce all 4 of its autoloading shells one after the other, despite being dead on in your aiming into well known & easy to hit enemy weak spots. The gun takes approx. 30 sec to reload completely & loading AP shells into the chamber can mean you are stuck with all four shells bouncing depending on the tank you encounter next.

The idea of this tank is to be very precise & surgically selective in your targets, driving around until u spot & take advantage of an unsuspecting enemy tank you can hopefully pen & not take any damage as it, like all French tanks, has none to speak of.

 

However, when you are situated on a map where your choices are limited, you have to be cleaver & make your own opportunities cause if you are spotted, your armour will NOT protect you.

 

The issue with this tank, & the AMX 50B for that matter is, they have terrible pen power with AP shells & I do mean terrible. Unless your targets & situation are ideal you'll rarely if ever reach your potential DPM.

If you choose to use HE you will get tons of pens, but your dam will be crazy low, even when you do roll high.

 

Using APCR (its premium ammo) will get you the pens you want, need & should be getting but it's going to cost you a lot of credits, for the most part, ending with a net loss in credits if you shoot a lot of ammo even when you do really well.

The AP shells on these tanks needs a buffy of some sort. Not getting ANY pens in an entire game is not unheard of in either of these tanks, which otherwise are both super fun, very mobile & overall great tanks, except for that single issue.

 

I love playing both of these tanks, but hate the fact you can't pen anything so often, it just makes them boring & no fun at all. You have no choice but to use HE, which gives you almost no damage, or Premo Ammo, which costs a fortune & defeats its purpose.

I was just in a game & ended up face hugging a Type 59 prem med & except for the ramming damage I took from him, I didn't get a single penetration.

I was above him in stature & cause of the terrain so got to shoot down upon him.

I hit the commanders hatch dead on & got nothing, again the top of the turret, nothing again, the top above the upper glaucous & still no pen & finally my fourth shot hit him in the weak spot on his side above the tracks & got nothing. Meanwhile, every single one of his shells penned me.

 

I was able to reload, and this time I changed to APCR but again, had the same effect the second time around. I should have gone with HE but my damage would have been so small, it wouldn't have saved me anyway. Several other tanks also shot at me & with my armour, I didn't last long. Normally I wouldn't have been in that situation but its a battle and anything can happen.

 

You don't have to take away anything else from the tank, everything else is perfect, but the AP shell pen is just terrible.

If you compare these HEAVY tanks to any of the autoloading Med tanks, you can see the French AMX 120 & 50B are just awful & need buffie.

In ANY tier IX or X Med tank autoloader, I could have defeated my enemy quite easily or at least caused some serious damage.

 

Pleeeeeeeease WoT, for me??? After all, think of the children. Yeah, that.



_Inadequate #2 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 10:21

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The 50b gun has absolutely no penetration issues. It's smack dab in the middle of the pack and has upper level accuracy and gun handling. Improve your aim.

JakeTheMystic #3 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 11:34

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If the thing had any more pen, it would be OP. Learn to aim, you shouldn't be able to auto-pen tanks just because you can auto-lock onto them. 

 

People also thought the Foch B would be OP, that was until they realized the pen sucked. 



Silvers_ #4 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 11:42

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View PostJackson120, on Jul 18 2018 - 03:21, said:

The 50b gun has absolutely no penetration issues. It's smack dab in the middle of the pack and has upper level accuracy and gun handling. Improve your aim.

 

What he said. 50B is good learn to aim. Same can be said for the 50 120. I had no issues with that when i ground the 50B out. was the next easiest grind for me outside of the Batchat.

_Gungrave_ #5 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 11:50

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Pen on those tanks aren't even an issue because the real issue is the clip reload time, lack of any real armor, somewhat large size profile, and lastly you'll be a favorite target for arty due to the large profile and generally weak armor.

_Inadequate #6 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 16:33

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View Post_Gungrave_, on Jul 18 2018 - 05:50, said:

Pen on those tanks aren't even an issue because the real issue is the clip reload time, lack of any real armor, somewhat large size profile, and lastly you'll be a favorite target for arty due to the large profile and generally weak armor.

 

of thatst an issue then it's a playerskill Problem not an underpowered tank problem. It's mobile, has excellent firepower and works for skilled players. 

_Gungrave_ #7 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 16:49

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View PostJackson120, on Jul 18 2018 - 16:33, said:

 

of thatst an issue then it's a playerskill Problem not an underpowered tank problem. It's mobile, has excellent firepower and works for skilled players. 

 

Never said it was underpowered its just that I consider its reload time to be something many find hard to grasp along with how to use an autoloader. Most I see overexpose to dump the whole clip instead of shooting a shot or two then backing off.

Gunadie #8 Posted Jul 18 2018 - 17:25

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You are trolling right?

I guess you think an auto-loader(s), which are usually considerably more mobile, should be able to auto-pen the front of the enemy as well?

Auto-loaders are impossible to balance with single shots in their respective tiers and are unfair when up against anything lower by a long shot.

Bad for the game balance they are!

 



hootie274 #9 Posted Jul 19 2018 - 20:34

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AMX 50 120 and especially the AMX 50B are fine the way they are.....

ACandieCaneKilling #10 Posted Jul 31 2018 - 22:06

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View PostJackson120, on Jul 18 2018 - 02:21, said:

The 50b gun has absolutely no penetration issues. It's smack dab in the middle of the pack and has upper level accuracy and gun handling. Improve your aim.

 

View PostJakeTheMystic, on Jul 18 2018 - 03:34, said:

If the thing had any more pen, it would be OP. Learn to aim, you shouldn't be able to auto-pen tanks just because you can auto-lock onto them. 

 

People also thought the Foch B would be OP, that was until they realized the pen sucked. 

 

In response to your comments;

Jackson120: "Improve your aim"

and

JakeTheMystic: "Learn to aim, you shouldn't be able to auto-pen tanks just because you can auto-lock onto them"

 

I offer you a quote from my post:

"...terrible pen & can easily bounce all 4 of its autoloading shells one after the other, despite being dead on in your aiming into well known & easy to hit enemy weak spots"

 

I wasn't talking about auto aiming, nor was I talking about just randomly shooting anywhere. I was specific in my post about shooting dead-on into weak spots on armour & having 1, 2 or even more shells bounce which I find frustrating.

The tank is awesomely fast, mobile, super capable, & when you keep your distance & play strategically, waiting & looking for opportunities to take shots while keeping your weak armour hidden & protected, you can really do some damage & get out rather quickly. It's not a great sniper, but it is good at getting in assassination shots in when you are waiting for the enemy to shoot & then get in a few shots before they have time to reload, while letting the heavies with the armour take enemies head on while you look for your chance to do some damage.

I like the tank & I know it is really capable in the right hands, but at the same time, I find it can be very frustrating at times, a LOT of times, when it bounces shells & you know you hit dead on the weak spots. (My "legal" mod shows me where I hit)

 

I think you both should learn to read the post first, then comment using some sort of thought process instead of missing the point due to your lack of paying attention to what was actually written & coming off say; less than all knowing.

(I meant stupid, but I won't say that, hehe)

 

Sometimes I'm sure I could post a comment about how I don't like the sun as I am prone to sunburn so I ALWAYS wear a lot of SPF 45 sunblock to protect myself & a bunch of people will comment how I should use sunblock when in the sun.

No one listens or reads & when it's more than a paragraph, they complain about it being too long to bother reading cause they're so used to only having to type or read 140 characters so that anyone who writes more than that is demonic. lol

 

Oh by the way, I never troll. Besides, this is a forum; so how can someone troll a forum? Isn't this literally where you are supposed to post thoughts & comments? DUH



JakeTheMystic #11 Posted Aug 01 2018 - 00:47

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View PostACandieCaneKilling, on Jul 31 2018 - 13:06, said:

 

 

In response to your comments;

Jackson120: "Improve your aim"

and

JakeTheMystic: "Learn to aim, you shouldn't be able to auto-pen tanks just because you can auto-lock onto them"

 

I offer you a quote from my post:

"...terrible pen & can easily bounce all 4 of its autoloading shells one after the other, despite being dead on in your aiming into well known & easy to hit enemy weak spots"

 

I wasn't talking about auto aiming, nor was I talking about just randomly shooting anywhere. I was specific in my post about shooting dead-on into weak spots on armour & having 1, 2 or even more shells bounce which I find frustrating.

The tank is awesomely fast, mobile, super capable, & when you keep your distance & play strategically, waiting & looking for opportunities to take shots while keeping your weak armour hidden & protected, you can really do some damage & get out rather quickly. It's not a great sniper, but it is good at getting in assassination shots in when you are waiting for the enemy to shoot & then get in a few shots before they have time to reload, while letting the heavies with the armour take enemies head on while you look for your chance to do some damage.

I like the tank & I know it is really capable in the right hands, but at the same time, I find it can be very frustrating at times, a LOT of times, when it bounces shells & you know you hit dead on the weak spots. (My "legal" mod shows me where I hit)

 

I think you both should learn to read the post first, then comment using some sort of thought process instead of missing the point due to your lack of paying attention to what was actually written & coming off say; less than all knowing.

(I meant stupid, but I won't say that, hehe)

 

Sometimes I'm sure I could post a comment about how I don't like the sun as I am prone to sunburn so I ALWAYS wear a lot of SPF 45 sunblock to protect myself & a bunch of people will comment how I should use sunblock when in the sun.

No one listens or reads & when it's more than a paragraph, they complain about it being too long to bother reading cause they're so used to only having to type or read 140 characters so that anyone who writes more than that is demonic. lol

 

Oh by the way, I never troll. Besides, this is a forum; so how can someone troll a forum? Isn't this literally where you are supposed to post thoughts & comments? DUH

 

It took you a whole 13 days to respond with that? Ouch. 

 

I know you said you can aim, but my experience with the tank says otherwise. It nearly auto-pens tier 9s and it has more than enough pen to go through most tier 10 easily. 

 

Just because you have a "feeling" that it needs more pen, doesn't mean it should. 



ACandieCaneKilling #12 Posted Aug 01 2018 - 16:42

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View PostJakeTheMystic, on Jul 31 2018 - 16:47, said:

 

It took you a whole 13 days to respond with that? Ouch. 

 

I know you said you can aim, but my experience with the tank says otherwise. It nearly auto-pens tier 9s and it has more than enough pen to go through most tier 10 easily. 

 

Just because you have a "feeling" that it needs more pen, doesn't mean it should. 

 

It took me less than 3 min to respond to you, I just never bothered to look at any comments til then.
As for the tank, of course it's my opinion, which is the only opinion I can have, since it's mine & I'm the only one who can have my opinion.

Your experiences may vary of course, I think that is a given.

 

I not only said I could aim, but I said I DID aim & I could see exactly where I hit the weak spots. So I am thinking, my feeling is just as valid as anyone else's for that matter as a feeling is nothing more than a thought.

It is more than likely to be an issue with tier X tanks & of course I'm generally talking about super heavies or tanks known to be difficult to pen but still, being dead on is just as it reads, DEAD ON TARGET, which is the point of this post.

As for it SHOULD or SHOULDN'T, I leave that up to the Developers as I simply wanted to make my experiences known to them, comment on my experiences since that is what this forum is literally for.

 

Can't understand why you seem to feel you should (or anyone for that matter) shame players who come here to express themselves regarding their experiences since that is what the forum is for, this particular one at that.

Why is it so important you belittle me by not suggesting, but absolutely chastising me on how I can't possibly be correct, good or whatever since nothing in the forum state's your personal opinion of me & such things should or does matter?

I am not here for YOU to decide if I am correct in my actions, or if I am good enough for you, or to please or be judged by you for anything I do, have done or will do in any way.

Why is it you feel you are the de facto expert in what you cannot possibly know anything about since you were not there, did not see the matches & more importantly, your opinion on something that actually occurred isn't relevant?

In fact, it isn't something you can comment on since it already happened (the fact my shells bounced despite well aimed shots on weak spots as indicated by my mod pack showing me where I hit precisely) as I am simply reporting my experiences, while NOT here for you to determine if such events occurred or not. They did cause I said so, your opinion or belief in them doesn't matter.

 

It reminds of when news agencies report a story & then ask their audience to comment to them on the matter in twitter or FB or whatever, as to why they think something happened.

All I can think is; who cares what anyone's opinion is regarding something that already happened; as if it will change if enough of the audience believes something different happened other than what really occurred.

If something happened, & happened for a reason, no one's opinion will ever change either of those things.

Makes me laugh (as well as baffles me) whenever anyone says to me; NO YOU DIDN'T, or that's not what happened, lol, when they can't possibly know themselves.

 

OH my, I hope my 4 min, 12 sec rant wasn't too many words for you to read?



Gang_Starr #13 Posted Aug 01 2018 - 18:33

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Amazing tanks that recently even got buffed. Watch Anfield's 50B 3Mark session video on youtube to see how to play those tanks effectively. 

pepe_trueno #14 Posted Aug 01 2018 - 23:37

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if anything all autoloaders penetration should be crap considering they can dump a lot of damage in a short period of time and tend to have more than enought mobility to find a good spot or run away during the reload

simba90 #15 Posted Aug 02 2018 - 01:25

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Both tanks perform fine when played properly.

Claiming that the tanks need pen buff because of your experience is akin to claiming that all nails need to have screwheads on them because your screwdriver doesn't put them in well.

Its never the tools, but the way they're being used.

Take Gang_Starr's advice and go watch some good streamers / youtube clips and see what you can learn.



leeuniverse #16 Posted Aug 06 2018 - 23:17

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I don't know about the tanks you're speaking of, but it's a common issue for many tanks of the game to have pen issues against armor that shouldn't be that strong in where/how they are shot, such as lower plates, flat turrets perfectly facing you, etc. etc.  Some guns just aren't given decent pen against some of the armor they face.

RC_1140 #17 Posted Aug 06 2018 - 23:33

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50b is amazing. Considering the rest of the gun stats AP has fine pen. Or credit grind and spam APCR if it makes you happy. 

ACandieCaneKilling #18 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 10:51

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View Postsimba90, on Aug 01 2018 - 17:25, said:

Both tanks perform fine when played properly.

Claiming that the tanks need pen buff because of your experience is akin to claiming that all nails need to have screwheads on them because your screwdriver doesn't put them in well.

Its never the tools, but the way they're being used.

Take Gang_Starr's advice and go watch some good streamers / youtube clips and see what you can learn.

 

so what your saying is, no tank has ever had pen issues, cause once a tank has had its settings created & enters the game, its perfect, & none have ever needed buffing??

Basically you are saying, the developers don't need to get feedback from players about their experiences with their tanks cause everything is perfect & in all cases, it's the players.

OK I gotcha.

Good thing you were here as I was getting worried about how much of this forum was being completely wasted as no issues were ever legitimate.

I feel so much better now that I know every tank that sucks or doesn't perform is my fault.

 

I wonder how come during my testing, when I lined my tank up beside 2 others of the same tank, it didn't pen 3 out of 4 shots almost half of the time at 90 degrees into the side of the same tank into the same weak points.

I guess that would be me too cause according to you, the developers don't need to read that, or see it, cause it's not the tank, it's me.

You're a freaking genius.

 

Oh wait. (I think to myself) Am I being too sarcastic here? NAWWWWWWWW.

He won't even notice, cause of the level of stupidity he has going for him. Everything is awesome. Someone should write a song about that. I bet it would be catchy.



simba90 #19 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 20:47

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View PostACandieCaneKilling, on Oct 01 2018 - 09:51, said:

Basically you are saying, the developers don't need to get feedback from players about their experiences with their tanks cause everything is perfect & in all cases, it's the players.

 

The developers need feedback. They just don't need feedback from people that don't know what they're talking about.

 

View PostACandieCaneKilling, on Oct 01 2018 - 09:51, said:

I wonder how come during my testing, when I lined my tank up beside 2 others of the same tank, it didn't pen 3 out of 4 shots almost half of the time at 90 degrees into the side of the same tank into the same weak points.

I guess that would be me too cause according to you, the developers don't need to read that, or see it, cause it's not the tank, it's me.

 

See, now you're getting it.

Learn to aim better. The tank is perfectly fine now since the gun depression/elevation buff from several patches ago. Just learn to put yourself in the right place at the right time and you will find yourself doing more damage and winning games.

 

Or not, and keep failing your way to the 50b. Makes no odds to me. The less talented the autoloader players there are the easy time I have. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 


ACandieCaneKilling #20 Posted Oct 09 2018 - 02:50

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View Postsimba90, on Oct 01 2018 - 12:47, said:

The developers need feedback. They just don't need feedback from people that don't know what they're talking about.

 

 

See, now you're getting it.

Learn to aim better. The tank is perfectly fine now since the gun depression/elevation buff from several patches ago. Just learn to put yourself in the right place at the right time and you will find yourself doing more damage and winning games.

 

Or not, and keep failing your way to the 50b. Makes no odds to me. The less talented the autoloader players there are the easy time I have. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

I see you're still as dumb now as you were the first time you read my post & responded with some nonsense talking about a subject matter that I wasn't talking about.
You see, I didn't say anything about NOT hitting the mark. In fact, I was specifically talking about hitting the mark dead on target, exactly where I should hit it, & many times over & it bounces & doesn't pen far too often.

You see, this statement shows that what I was talking about has nothing to do with my aiming my gun, as I am a fairly good shot. But rather, it is you who failed to read and/or comprehend what was in my post.

So perhaps you should go back to school & learn to grasp the content & subject matter of a sentence & then perhaps...

just learn to put yourself in the frame of mind & first work out what the subject matter was in the post in the first place and you will find yourself understanding more content & subject matter before you know it.

 

In case you still cannot comprehend the content & subject matter of my post, I shall dumb it down for you:
1) I mention the shells often bounce when aimed directly on their mark, dead on, spot on, exactly on target, which of course would be a known weak spot on the target tank.

2) My post not only TELLS you this fact, but also indicates for the most part, I know the majority (if not more) of the weak spots on the tanks I am shooting at.

3) It goes on to say, I am well aware of said tank works & its gun handling capabilities & do quite well with it.

4) However, it also mentions specifically that said tank, unlike most other tanks I have in my garage (all 210 of them,) do NOT have this same issue when aimed at the exact same spots on the same tanks as I have done a side by side comparison.

5) It also states more than once, this has nothing to do with my aiming as the shells I am discussing, all fall on their intended targets which are the same weak spots other tanks I own & use land their shots to pen the enemy tanks.

6) Suffice to say, if you understood the content & the subject matter was not about my aiming as I mention several times, this has nothing to do with aiming, you wouldn't bring up nonsense about how I need to learn to aim when aiming was never a part of my post to begin with, in other words, no one was talking about aiming at that was stated to be accurate & not a factor.

7) Since you were not there to watch my demonstrations, while others were, this does not negate the fact they are real & I felt WoT should get some feedback on this regarding the specific issues I have been having with this tank.

 

To surmise: When the content & subject matter are about the pen/bounce aspects of the tank in question & not about aiming, why would you continue to go on and on about something no one was talking about?
If you were told a plane crashed & burst into flames due to a mechanical failure would you assume the pilots of the plane needed to take flying lessons or would you accept what you read & that it a mechanical failure since you just read this info?

Or would you lecture the pilots on how they can't fly a plane? The flying was already established, so that wasn't a topic for discussion.

As in this case, the aiming wasn't the issue, since the shells were hitting their marks dead on. The subject matter was about shells bouncing despite that fact.

So responding to anything else was just a waste of your time & mine. Learn to see the content & understand the subject matter & then comment on that.






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