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CommodoreHotDog #1 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 15:07

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I've been thinking about reducing the negativity in the game, and helping new players get better faster.  Here are a couple ideas: Sergeant's Medal (sergeants helping replacements) - platooning with a player with a 10% or greater lower win rate that your own.  You can accumulate medals to turn in for 100 Gold for 100 platoons.  This way you can reward better players for helping new players with game strategy.  I am thinking teaming with seasoned players would reduce frustration, keep players playing, reduce negativity.  Another idea is when you purchase a tank in the tank tree, you can watch a 1 minute video on the tanks strengths and weaknesses.    I would like to hear thoughts. 

I_QQ_4_U #2 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 15:21

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There's a crap ton of info out there to learn how to play the game better right now, if people don't want to make the effort then I doubt a 1 minute video is going to do anything. I've tried politely helping new/bad players in the past and overwhelmingly I get told to F off and that they'll play however they like. If someone legitimately asks me for help I'll do what I can but they can just keep being fodder and believing tinfoil nonsense.

xtc4 #3 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 15:26

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Have a +1. This is a creative and excellent idea. I hope that the powers take notice.

 

I might tinker. 10% difference seems a little steep; I might go for something like 5%. And we have to clarify whether we are talking recents or overall. I also might make the reward a bit better (250 gold for 50 platoons? 500 gold for 100 platoons?).

 

Again, one of the best ideas I have seen here in a long time.


Edited by xtc4, Aug 03 2018 - 15:31.


tod914 #4 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 15:30

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I suspect there are a lot of new players that don't frequent the forum.  Taking a new guy/gal under your wing is a good idea.  Mentor bonus would be nice a perk.  Doesn't the refer a friend program kind of do that?  +1 OP

Edited by tod914, Aug 03 2018 - 15:31.


F0R_M07H3R_RU5514 #5 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 15:31

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It's a nice idea, but lets be realistic.  We're past even trying to do this in real time, in game.

Suggestion: "Please don't take your light tank platoon to valley.  You negate the vision and mobility and put our team at a disadvantage"

Reply: "STFU - it's my tank and I play how I want.  I'm not going to go poof on center road so you can farm damage"

 

 



MacDaddyMatty #6 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 15:46

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Always a good idea to help people improve, so +1.


 

HOWEVER,

Most platoons don't work together.

So, you'd just see ppl XVM "platooning sniping" for the reward while adding nothing to the learning of the lower guy.


Edited by MacDaddyMatty, Aug 03 2018 - 15:47.


xtc4 #7 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 15:56

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View PostMacDaddyMatty, on Aug 03 2018 - 09:46, said:

Always a good idea to help people improve, so +1.


 

HOWEVER,

Most platoons don't work together.

So, you'd just see ppl XVM "platooning sniping" for the reward while adding nothing to the learning of the lower guy.

 

This is a good point. Obviously, there has to be communications between the platooned players for this program to be worthwhile. The OP's idea doesn't require communications, and I don't see how it could.

 

On the other hand, I'm betting that the vast majority of good players know about things like teamspeak and discord and would insist on communications during the platoon. So I don't see this as a major problem.

 



MacDaddyMatty #8 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:01

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View Postxtc4, on Aug 03 2018 - 09:56, said:

 

This is a good point. Obviously, there has to be communications between the platooned players for this program to be worthwhile. The OP's idea doesn't require communications, and I don't see how it could.

 

On the other hand, I'm betting that the vast majority of good players know about things like teamspeak and discord and would insist on communications during the platoon. So I don't see this as a major problem.

 

 

Perhaps adding that they have to be platooned for "X" ammt of battles?

Dynamic platoons are more likely to evaporate when one player dies.

Still would be rampant with abuse though.


 

Hrm...



I_QQ_4_U #9 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:06

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View Postxtc4, on Aug 03 2018 - 15:56, said:

 

This is a good point. Obviously, there has to be communications between the platooned players for this program to be worthwhile. The OP's idea doesn't require communications, and I don't see how it could.

 

On the other hand, I'm betting that the vast majority of good players know about things like teamspeak and discord and would insist on communications during the platoon. So I don't see this as a major problem.

 

 

One of the reasons I stopped random grouping in games about 15 years ago is I found it quite common for bad players to not use voice chat so there's no point at all in being in a group if you can't communicate. Overwhelmingly, good players do use it because they want to be good. There's no way in hell I'll play a game in a platoon while trying to type in chat to a platoon mate what he needs to do and not do. By the time I type 'Do' when trying to say 'Don't sit in the open on that hill', he'd be dead.

Zeds_Tank #10 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:10

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View PostI_QQ_4_U, on Aug 03 2018 - 09:21, said:

....I've tried politely helping new/bad players in the past and overwhelmingly I get told to F off and that they'll play however they like....

I'm thinking that's the burden you bear for an all-caps troll name.
Once they got to know you as a helpful team player, I'm sure they would see past it. 
:p

But yeah, lack of easy in-game communication options, it likely would not work.
 


Edited by Seth_VonLiopod, Aug 03 2018 - 16:11.


Evil_Putin #11 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:15

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Good idea and interesting way to implement it, but I think you are being overly drastic in terms of skill discrepancy between the mentor and the mentee and i would start with players closer to your own skill level, i.e. +/- 5%, that are looking for a small bump in their tanking skills. Why would I say that? Well, from personal experience. I've mentored many players in the past - from random pubbie tomatoes to players with higher stats than me that were looking to improve strategically (I called close to 2k CW battles for top 10 clans and countless TCs/SHs/skrimms in the past so I did caller/strat trainings for friends and their clans). I won't talk about players that are already good and total newbies with under 2k battles as those require different approaches as opposed to your average 46%er with 15k battles. I.e. good players need a specific skill improved and their training is geared for that. Newbs are easy because they know very little and haven't yet formed poor habbits - you can easily mold their playstyle to something decent. That said, there are 2 major issues I've encountered with the average potato mentees. First, players that are perform SIGNIFICANTLY worse than you - those with 10%+ discrepancy that you are aiming for - will have a hard time understanding what you do and why from merely observing and listening to you. They need to learn a whole lot more than what they gain from casual platooning. That segways into the second issue: it takes quite a lot of time to break bad habits and teach a baddie to perform well. I.e. it won't happen after a 10 battle session or even a 100 battle session. The player being mentored might pick up a few things here and there from that experience, but to truly turn things around you'll have to consistently take that person through various maps, tanks and battle scenarios. Unfortunately, most of us don't have the luxury of spending that much time on complete strangers. More so, doing something so long term and have the mentee get frustrated and bail or simply move on to another game is beyond frustrating because of all the time and effort you literally wasted. Hence, I suggest aiming for players closer to 5% discrepancy, at least to start with, as it will be much easier for both of you to get into the process and there is a bigger chance that your effort won't go to waste.  

MacDaddyMatty #12 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:15

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Here's an idea...

An "OK TO PLATOON" badge that anyone can put next to their name.

That way someone looking for help with a mission, or just wanting to dynamic platoon for the bonus, knows at a glace who they can send an in-game invite to.


Edited by MacDaddyMatty, Aug 03 2018 - 16:16.


Mfezi #13 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:28

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An excellent idea, but, as has been pointed out, offering your services in-game is not the way to go. Maybe a pool of 'mentors' who are online be made available and those wishing to make use of the service, select from this pool. Then at least you know that the 'mentee' (don't even try to look it up! :)) is intrested!....

 

 

P.S. Who would have thought!....

 

I assume you are asking for a word for a person guided by a mentor. "Student" or "pupil" perhaps, but they have the implication of teaching. Perhaps "acolyte" or "disciple", though the latter implies devotion, and is used for follwers of a religous leader. Mentee is indeed "modern" and not widely used.Feb 8, 2012

 


Edited by Mfezi, Aug 03 2018 - 16:32.


Evil_Putin #14 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:33

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View PostMfezi, on Aug 03 2018 - 10:28, said:

An excellent idea, but, as has been pointed out, offering your services in-game is not the way to go. Maybe a pool of 'mentors' who are online be made available and those wishing to make use of the service, select from this pool. Then at least you know that the 'mentee' (don't even try to look it up! :)) is intrested!....

 

A similar undertaking took place on wotlabs forum a few years back - good players and unicums could list themselves as mentors and folks looking to improve could leave an application to be mentored. That program did quite well, but is dead now afaik because most of the mentors are retired from the game or only play occasionally. 

Mfezi #15 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:38

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View PostEvil_Putin, on Aug 03 2018 - 17:33, said:

 

A similar undertaking took place on wotlabs forum a few years back - good players and unicums could list themselves as mentors and folks looking to improve could leave an application to be mentored. That program did quite well, but is dead now afaik because most of the mentors are retired from the game or only play occasionally. 

 

That's the crux - having enough enthusiastic mentors!....

dunniteowl #16 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:45

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I think this is a Good Concept™.

 

I also think, for a Mentor Badge or Trainer Badge (maybe Drill Sergeant) the Platoon should be engaged PRIOR to entering the match.  This will help to limit those 'spur-of-the-moment' platoons by folks for nothing more than attempting to 'game' the mentoring system in poor faith.

 

Also, perhaps there should be a "Pool" of Mentors, which would require the Mentor to submit some sort of indicator (and have some recognizable emblem/icon highlighted [like those Kewl Campaign badges before a player's name, or the Sheriff badge] on their name/unit) from which potential Trainees might pick.

 

Clearly, for something like this to work, actually WORK, there has to be some set of agreed upon by definition conditions for this program that make sense.

 

10% is TOO HIGH a demarcation.  You really should be able to platoon and mentor with anyone as a mentor that is at least 4-6% higher than your self.  It doesn't sound like a lot, however I can assure you, the difference between me at 48.23% and me at 54% is truly like night and day.  There is a 'bridge, gap or divide,' if you will, where just a 2% difference in WR equates to a literal Magnitude of difference in understanding what's going on IN the game.

 

So perhaps the cap should be a minimum of 4% difference and no upper limit,  because why would you?

 

WG would have to buy into this idea as well, which, honestly is going to be your single hardest sell.  I think, though, that if some members of the Community stood together in agreement that this was a good idea, that it was a plan that was mostly worked out and needed a few bits of spit and polish from the WG Staff and it would fly, then you would have a really good shot at having something like this implemented.

 

We all like to say, "How hard would it be," when we talk about making such a small change.  So before anyone talks about coding issues, let's first make sure the idea is sound enough for them to commit that sort of time to it.  This means:

 

A clear aim and objective that can be measured in some manner by the current data set.  I think this is pretty much the basis of the OP's idea, so; check.

 

A set of rules by which the program MUST operate to be successful.  This is pretty much what's going on right now, developing the concept into something we can all use and agree to use a certain way.  WIP.

 

Presentation in official form to WG after the idea is pretty well fleshed out as much as possible.  TBD

 

 

Great Post, OP!  +1

 

OvO



Evil_Putin #17 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 16:51

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View PostMfezi, on Aug 03 2018 - 10:38, said:

 

That's the crux - having enough enthusiastic mentors!....

 

Tough one nowadays as many good players have left the game. Plus, many got burned spending countless hours on ungrateful pubs and start cursing profusely as soon as they even hear the word "mentor". Frankly, I wouldn't do it these days unless it was for a good friend.  

Mfezi #18 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 17:07

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View PostEvil_Putin, on Aug 03 2018 - 17:51, said:

 

Tough one nowadays as many good players have left the game. Plus, many got burned spending countless hours on ungrateful pubs and start cursing profusely as soon as they even hear the word "mentor". Frankly, I wouldn't do it these days unless it was for a good friend.  

 

Maybe if the incentive is there?

 

I was thinking of putting my name up for mentoring - as they say about a subhect..... "If you can't do it then teach it and if you can't teach it then examine it!"..... :)

 



I_QQ_4_U #19 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 17:08

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View PostSeth_VonLiopod, on Aug 03 2018 - 16:10, said:

I'm thinking that's the burden you bear for an all-caps troll name.
 

 

Not sure how it's a troll name, I made it because I knew that there would be lots of raging lunatics in  F2P PvP game, which ended up being far worse than I imagined so it's paid off in spades. It's in caps because I is always in caps, QQ doesn't work as qq and U for aesthetics.

_War_Lock #20 Posted Aug 03 2018 - 17:24

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Seems to me like there are some really good ideas here




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