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Beating the Horse....XVM ruins perspective

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OLDIRTYBOMBER #21 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 18:22

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View PostQuisicalGod_GW, on Aug 04 2018 - 07:23, said:

 As it does not account for player actions or decisions. This applies to the game as well, it may feel as though it is stacking very skilled players against very bad players, but one bad choice from one person, skilled or unskilled, can affect the entire game. We have all had this happen at one point or another. 

 

 

Do you think the player with 45% wr 300 wn8 for 14k+ games got that way by SOMETIMES making bad decisions? Maybe just mechanically bad? Who knows why but statically this player is likely to continue to play the same way.

Sure maybe they sold their account recently or could actually start to improve but when your in game as bottom tier and your top tier heavys start the game in TD spots from the back of the map is this STILL surprising to you AFTER seeing their current STATISTICS?  When they are all stacked on 1 team i wonder what happens? The better players are first to the best spots and dumping on your team of bots, wow shocker, maybe consider flanking :trollface:

 

 



spud_tuber #22 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 18:42

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View PostFractured_Raptor, on Aug 04 2018 - 02:12, said:

I don't see why XVM is even allowed. WarGaming said that unless the information is readily available to a player in the battle ... it's illegal. To my knowledge you can't just look at the match and tell who is what color, not without that mod. So are they being hypocrites? 

The info is theoretically obtainable another way.  The bar is in general not "readily available", it's "having no other way of knowing".   

 

Similarly, the bar isn't "provide no advantage", it's "provide no unreasonable advantage" with "unreasonable" determined by WG and "reasonable" allegedly going on their "add to vanilla when there are resources to do so" list. 

 

This of course means that there is a lot of grey area that is at WG's discretion.  But to use the modding community as unpaid UI and feature developers as WG does, this is grey area is necessary. 



_Jayzilla #23 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 21:14

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View PostChristojojo, on Aug 03 2018 - 22:37, said:

 "..IT tells me who to aim for..."

 

This reasoning right there is why it is a very bad system. 

 

The argument is very simple:

 

If Wargamming had its own in-game system similar to XVM then people would not have much issues with it.

 

But having to download a THIRD party program that is not supported by Wargamming itself for a player to have information that is not readily available for the every player, then the program is a cheat. Advantages that a third party program like XVM provides is available to only those who have access to the program, not something the regular World of Tanks client provides. Where does it say in the beginner's tutorial that XVM is a good program to download? Nowhere! 

 

XVM diminishes individual competitive game play. It punishes those who yearn for dynamic game play and reinforces bad habits simply because some players will shoot a certain type of player over another. For ones who are convinced that XVM is similar to real warfare as also being asymmetrical also forget the gaming aspect of Wargamming, that some people should have all the advantages afforded to them over others simply because it is the closest thing to war they may find themselves in.



TheCobraChicken #24 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 21:45

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View PostChristojojo, on Aug 04 2018 - 06:37, said:

XVM is not for short minded players. IT is a helpful tool. IT tells me who to aim for and who not to  trust on my team. 

 

And people like you are why XVM should be limited to your team only. Instead of allowing the 3 clickers on the other team to focus whoever has the highest stats. .i..



_Gungrave_ #25 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 21:51

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View PostBavor, on Aug 04 2018 - 18:16, said:

 

The old XVM win percentage was pretty accurate if you looked at the data over hundreds or thousands of battles.  I don't know if anyone analyzed the new win chance mod yet which is just the difference in WN8 between the teams.

 

Accurate or not Its still a tool for idiots because many treat it like its religious scripture thinking that is how the match will turn out before its even started..

Flarvin #26 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 22:23

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View PostTheCobraChicken, on Aug 04 2018 - 15:45, said:

 

And people like you are why XVM should be limited to your team only. Instead of allowing the 3 clickers on the other team to focus whoever has the highest stats. .i..

 

So what is the chance that 3 arty on one team, will all be running xvm? 

 

I only seen about 1/3 if the players on average ran xvm, when I tracked it. That does not sound like those 3 red arties happen all that much. 



DrWho_ #27 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 22:31

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View PostFlarvin, on Aug 04 2018 - 22:23, said:

 

So what is the chance that 3 arty on one team, will all be running xvm? 

 

I only seen about 1/3 if the players on average ran xvm, when I tracked it. That does not sound like those 3 red arties happen all that much. 

 

Is there perhaps a function in XVM that automatically sends a team message when there's a high ranked player present ?

Flarvin #28 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 22:36

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View PostDrWho_, on Aug 04 2018 - 16:31, said:

 

Is there perhaps a function in XVM that automatically sends a team message when there's a high ranked player present ?

 

Never seen anything like that in battle. Have you? 



Flarvin #29 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 22:43

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I have seen players claim a match is a lose for all kinds of reasons, many without xvm. The same for players suiciding. 

DrWho_ #30 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 22:52

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View PostFlarvin, on Aug 04 2018 - 22:36, said:

 

Never seen anything like that in battle. Have you? 

 

No never and I even use XVM myself. There must however be a reason why some people feel they're being XVM sniped ..... ?

Flarvin #31 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 22:57

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View PostDrWho_, on Aug 04 2018 - 16:52, said:

 

No never and I even use XVM myself. There must however be a reason why some people feel they're being XVM sniped ..... ?

 

Truthfully, because people have cognitive biases. 

 

Same for players claiming they get ammo racked more or get more bad teams. And many other claims. 



DrWho_ #32 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 23:00

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View PostFlarvin, on Aug 04 2018 - 22:57, said:

 

Truthfully, because people have cognitive biases. 

 

Same for players claiming they get ammo racked more or get more bad teams. And many other claims. 

 

Are you suggesting that this could all be in their minds ?

Surely not ?

Flarvin #33 Posted Aug 04 2018 - 23:04

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View PostDrWho_, on Aug 04 2018 - 17:00, said:

 

Are you suggesting that this could all be in their minds ?

Surely not ?

 

Yes. Why couldn’t it be?

 

Plenty of medical evidence supporting it. 

 

Anytime those players get fired on by arty, they assume it’s xvm sniping until proved otherwise. 

 

I have been accused of xvm sniping, when I didn’t even have xvm installed. 

 

Not claiming xvm sniping never happens, just its far less frequent than claimed. 



_Jayzilla #34 Posted Aug 05 2018 - 00:07

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Did I just read a person having a conversation with him/her self?

NeatoMan #35 Posted Aug 05 2018 - 00:31

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View Post_Jayzilla, on Aug 04 2018 - 15:14, said:

View PostChristojojo, on Aug 03 2018 - 22:37, said:

 "..IT tells me who to aim for..."

This reasoning right there is why it is a very bad system.

 

That was the reason most unicums gave for using it when XVM first came out, before it achieved widespread use.   They used it to see who the other good players were on the other team, so they could pay attention to them.  This was back in the day when unicums were more dispersed throughout clans, and not readily identifiable by their clan tags.  It was fine while only they used it, but now that XVM has reached a larger audience, who are using it for the same purpose unicums said they used it for, unicums don't like all the extra attention.     Unicums are now screaming for its removal, mainly because they can now get by without it since most unicums have coalesced into fewer clans. I have no sympathy,...  you reap what you sow.

 

As far as cheat mod, by those standards most non-cosmetic mods are cheats, since they pretty much all automate information like XVM does.  You have to remember that you used to be able to get player stats simply by clicking on player names on the team roster during battle, so when XVM came out, it wasn't providing any information that wasn't already available in game.



DrWho_ #36 Posted Aug 05 2018 - 01:06

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View Post_Jayzilla, on Aug 05 2018 - 00:07, said:

Did I just read a person having a conversation with him/her self?

 

I often have conversations with myself as it's easier to get intelligent answers that way but never in public

DrWho_ #37 Posted Aug 05 2018 - 01:06

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View PostFlarvin, on Aug 04 2018 - 23:04, said:

 

Yes. Why couldn’t it be?

 

Plenty of medical evidence supporting it. 

 

Anytime those players get fired on by arty, they assume it’s xvm sniping until proved otherwise. 

 

I have been accused of xvm sniping, when I didn’t even have xvm installed. 

 

Not claiming xvm sniping never happens, just its far less frequent than claimed. 

 

I thought by now you would have picked up the sarcasm in my posts

Christojojo #38 Posted Aug 05 2018 - 01:38

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View Post_Gungrave_, on Aug 04 2018 - 01:55, said:

Just implement the option to make stats private while in a match and have it set to private by default. If that is done then XVM becomes unreliable because good players can keep their stats private to prevent any XVM focus/sniping and bad players can potentially avoid any sort of stat shaming.

 

 

Generally stats are good when used as a metric to gauge how well you're playing the game but it should stop at that. I think they should have no involvement in battle whatsoever and its not like they're needed. I've played with XVM years ago and vanilla for the past 3 to 4 years and it doesn't take long to know which player/s I should be weary of based upon how they play,

 

NAme a professional sport that does not use stats to scout the other team

Christojojo #39 Posted Aug 05 2018 - 01:43

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View PostTheCobraChicken, on Aug 04 2018 - 15:45, said:

 

And people like you are why XVM should be limited to your team only. Instead of allowing the 3 clickers on the other team to focus whoever has the highest stats. .i..

 

Get thicker skin. Like i just said above name a professional sport that  doesn't use scouted stats of the competitors. Because you use your clan and your money and  talent ot beat me at every chance you can means I am supposed to stand there and not use things to my advantage. I personally hope your thin skinned ego is artied every game so you are useless. :) Good morning

Pipinghot #40 Posted Aug 05 2018 - 02:28

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View Post_Jayzilla, on Aug 04 2018 - 15:14, said:

But having to download a THIRD party program that is not supported by Wargamming itself for a player to have information that is not readily available for the every player, then the program is a cheat. Advantages that a third party program like XVM provides is available to only those who have access to the program, not something the regular World of Tanks client provides. Where does it say in the beginner's tutorial that XVM is a good program to download? Nowhere!

It's not a cheat for one simple reason, WG says it's not a cheat and they own the game. We can debate for weeks and months about whether it's "fair" or "unfair", but the discussion here is not about fairness it's about cheating. The simple reality is that neither your personal preference nor mine decides what is cheating, WG decides that and they say that XVM is allowed.

 

All mods are, by definition, third party programs and most of the major games allow mods, which is followed by those games deciding which mods are cheats and which are allowed. And WG allows XVM, therefore you are wrong if you call it a cheat mod.

 

You also need to consider that almost all of the best features in the vanilla GUI were originally introduced by mods, and then WG added some of the best and most popular mod features into the game. If it wasn't for mods the game client would still be primitive (and frankly pretty awful), mods are the reason that the GUI has improved as much as it has.

 

Anyone who is playing an MMO on the internet in 2018 needs to know about mods, or learn about them, because they are a standard feature of modern gaming. If people don't want to bother with mods that's their choice, but failing to be aware that mods exist and are available is simply part of the learning curve of gaming on the internet. If people want to play games without mods they're more than welcome to play solo games.







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