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The "Province" Map..... It's actually a good map. Disappointed in its Removal.


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leeuniverse #1 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 09:20

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So, like most people, I always thought it was okay at low tiers, but at high tier it sucked.

However, after playing it for a while now at T8 and T10, I actually like the map, and think it's a good map.

 

Now, why would I say this?  Well, because to me what actually makes a map "good", is whether you can play "consistently well" on it with all classes of tank.

A bad map is one in which you can't play consistent on it, and/or it screws certain classes of tank.

For example, the removed map "South Coast" was actually likely the best-designed map of the game, reason being is because every class had at least 2 ways/directions to play and do so safely.  Not only that it allowed for different play styles.  If you liked to camp, you could, if you like to play forward you could, if you liked in between, you could, and do all of the above in a safe or effective position, and generally with more than one.

Of course, they removed South Coast apparently because of complainers that the map had effective camping positions, heaven forbid TD's and other campers could do well.  Anyway, it was a highly "consistent" map in design, thus I loved it.

 

Province, while it indeed isn't that "good" of a map design in best principles like South Coast, Redshire (the old Erlenberg (could be new Erlenberg if they put East/West hills back) ) etc. it is actually a "consistent" play map, which in fact makes it a good map, but sadly like South Coast, they are removing it because of the complainers.  It is sad to me that people can't learn the best positions and play of a map to play well and not complain.  For example with South Coast, it had absolutely great positions to play for every class, yet people complained.  It's just wrong.

 

Anyway, Wargaming is apparently removing it to show for no higher than Tier 7.  This is really disappointing.  I don't really play below T8 anymore, thus I'm going to again lose a map that I like, because again, I like maps that I can play well on no matter class.

 

Anyone else like me gotten past the initial "irritation" with the map, and actually like it's "contribution" to map variety and it's ability to be consistent?



_Gungrave_ #2 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 09:28

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Province is bad for high tiers because the view ranges there break it which was the problem with the original version. That combined with the increased cover and bushes leads to it being an even worse snipe fest than the old Province. If the map was actually bigger than the old version with hills spaced further apart where the tip of your view range only covered a small portion of the other hill then it would be fine. Problem is WG never actually made the map bigger because its still the same size as it was before. You may think its bigger but that is because they added the skybox around the map along with the exterior terrain to give a sense of scale. Its a simple map design trick to make a world/map bigger than it actually is.


Edited by _Gungrave_, Aug 11 2018 - 22:35.


xDroppinPlates #3 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 09:29

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I prefer maps where you don't need 4 different people on 4 different parts of the map to break the enemy teams camp without getting instantly killed.

 

South Coast wasn't horrible in any sense (unlike current Erlenberg, which I'd take Province over anyday) because you could actually break camps by yourself. 

I blame beach flank for people thinking it was a bad map.

 

As for the "best-designed map of the game," I prefer maps that don't have the majority of the map be completely unplayable, unless you want to instantly die of course.

 

I'd say Prok without arty is up there, but even then the hill and middle are completely dependant on one another to win either flank so idk.

Old Steppes was really great, new Steppes could be if there wasn't the braindeath TD spots on the 0 line..

 

Also I feel to need to point out there is a difference between complaining and trying to give feedback and have dialog.


Edited by xDroppinPlates, Aug 10 2018 - 09:56.


shinglefoot #4 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 10:22

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     Good riddance...

OctavariumDT8 #5 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 11:06

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I want Pearl River, Komarin, Hidden Village, Dragon Ridge, Highway, Northwest, Port, Sacred Valley, Severogorsk, South Coast, Swamp, Widepark and Windstorm back!!!!!!! 

 

Those were all good maps and just needed a little bit of tweaking and rebalance. Unlike [edited]Stalingrad and Kharkov which sucked [edited]and deserved to be removed.



Ewan_Wutarmee #6 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 11:06

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Province would be much better if the valley was 250-500 meters wider.

JakeTheMystic #7 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 11:27

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Better to listen to the masses and make them happy than to ignore them and lose players as a result.

 

I personally still dislike the map at higher tiers, getting spotted constant from across the valley makes it nearly impossible to move without getting sniped. But its still terrible map design considering a whole 1/3 of the map is unplayable (if your insane enough, you can go down in the valley and get shot from all sides.)

 

I only have a few memories of Serene Coast, but most of them are bad. The 1 was was relatively flat and open, basically a suicide-yolo rush to see who can get the furthest without dying. The 0 line was effectively the same except for a few indentation to hide in, but that made them prime arty targets. Both bases were surrounded with ledges and bushes for tds to hide behind. So effectively, whoever got spotted first loses. 

 

At least it wasnt as bad as current-day fisherman's bay or erlenberg, those are basically unplayable. 



Lesser_Spotted_Panzer #8 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:07

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View Postleeuniverse, on Aug 10 2018 - 03:20, said:

So, like most people, I always thought it was okay at low tiers, but at high tier it sucked.

However, after playing it for a while now at T8 and T10, I actually like the map, and think it's a good map.

 

Now, why would I say this?  Well, because to me what actually makes a map "good", is whether you can play "consistently well" on it with all classes of tank.

A bad map is one in which you can't play consistent on it, and/or it screws certain classes of tank.

For example, the removed map "South Coast" was actually likely the best-designed map of the game, reason being is because every class had at least 2 ways/directions to play and do so safely.  Not only that it allowed for different play styles.  If you liked to camp, you could, if you like to play forward you could, if you liked in between, you could, and do all of the above in a safe or effective position, and generally with more than one.

Of course, they removed South Coast apparently because of complainers that the map had effective camping positions, heaven forbid TD's and other campers could do well.  Anyway, it was a highly "consistent" map in design, thus I loved it.

 

Province, while it indeed isn't that "good" of a map design in best principles like South Coast, Redshire (the old Erlenberg (could be new Erlenberg if they put East/West hills back) ) etc. it is actually a "consistent" play map, which in fact makes it a good map, but sadly like South Coast, they are removing it because of the complainers.  It is sad to me that people can't learn the best positions and play of a map to play well and not complain.  For example with South Coast, it had absolutely great positions to play for every class, yet people complained.  It's just wrong.

 

Anyway, Wargaming is apparently removing it to show for no higher than Tier 7.  This is really disappointing.  I don't really play below T8 anymore, thus I'm going to again lose a map that I like, because again, I like maps that I can play well on no matter class.

 

Anyone else like me gotten past the initial "irritation" with the map, and actually like it's "contribution" to map variety and it's ability to be consistent?

 

These are my sentiments exactly. I have played this map in different classes and different tiers, and have always found something fun to do on it.

So disappointed they are reducing it to lower tiers.



_Gungrave_ #9 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:10

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View PostLesser_Spotted_Panzer, on Aug 10 2018 - 12:07, said:

 

These are my sentiments exactly. I have played this map in different classes and different tiers, and have always found something fun to do on it.

So disappointed they are reducing it to lower tiers.

 

Its only being reduced to tier 4 through 7 where the view ranges don't break that map.

F0R_M07H3R_RU5514 #10 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:16

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I think it has the potential to disproportionately reward the hard core camping play-style.  I don't have any data or heatmaps, but that's just my gut feel.  A couple of well-positioned STRVs (for example) can farm entire teams from essentially one position, in two attacking directions.

_Brew_ #11 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:19

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Province is fantastic for completing missions.  I wouldn't have been able to complete my LT-14 without it.  Where else are you going to be able to solo spot 10+ enemy tanks camping in bushes while your team unloads on them?

Staz211 #12 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:53

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View PostF0R_M07H3R_RU5514, on Aug 10 2018 - 06:16, said:

I think it has the potential to disproportionately reward the hard core camping play-style.  I don't have any data or heatmaps, but that's just my gut feel.  A couple of well-positioned STRVs (for example) can farm entire teams from essentially one position, in two attacking directions.

 

I once parked my STRV 103B just outside the Eastern spawn and didn't move for the entire match right up until the very end when it was just mop up of the last tank or two. 

 

I did 6800 dmg. 

 

The map is obscenely broken, and greatly rewards hard camping. I can't stand it. 



GenPanzer #13 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:55

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It is kinda funny how the community complains about corridor maps and/or they want variety, yet then complains about 1 map that allows for 1 type of playstyle, as if all the maps are like this and this one is the worst. Even if there are 2 maps that play the same, if they are different enough from the other maps, isn't that what everyone should be wanting? I mean, we have city maps for brawling, we have open maps for flanking, we have camping maps for ambushing,  and we have combinations of those. Why is this bad? It can be frustrating, but what part of this game isn't?

SkaerKrow #14 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:56

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Yeah, I’m in the same boat as the OP. Province originally seemed pretty awful, but by merit of it actually having spots for all classes I’ve actually found myself enjoying it a lot more than I thought that I would. We’ll meet again at Tier VI, I guess.

V_A_C_A #15 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 12:58

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I loved to play on Province.
It was my school map, understanding the difference of paced shots versus rapid fire, and also how to lead target.
At that time I didn't know about the crew training, skills, etcetera.
People says that is a "camp fest", but that extra time "camping" gives you (as a beginner) chance to understand more the strategies of flanking, reading the map, using creativity considering the game mechanics.

I'm telling this, now, but considering as a "newbie" on the game, you need time to adjust to the game, and this map is one of the best for it.

About the "best designed map of the game", my personal choice is Malinovka. The only thing that I think needs a rework (not only in Malinovka, but also in Prokhorovka) is the increase of the width of the ramps to the top of the hill. As an arty player, any attempt of Heavies / Heavy TDs / slow targets to climb the ramps and being spotted, they can't escape the splash radius (and stun), because there's not enough room to escape. If there's more room for maneuvers, those tankers have more freedom to move / hide.

I understand that Prokhorovka is considered an "arty fest", but it's a kind of balance when you consider that an arty on a city map is almost "out of the game" (mind the high tiers arties, with only the exception of CGC and its high shell trajectory arc). Open maps balance City maps (considering artillery).

I remember playing South Coast ONLY ONCE, and when I was on a tier 2 arty (the old and now retired T57) and platooned with a tier 3 arty (M7 Priest). I've killed a tier 5 tank, and people on the global chat told "hey, he killed a tier 5 using a tier 2!"
I liked that map, but I lack more experience on it to make a fair judgement.

(Sorry for my english - not a native english speaker)

CynicalDutchie #16 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 13:45

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It's a terrible map, there is only effective play you can make on this map: cross to the other side and push the enemy spawn. Every other tactic fails miserably.

ThePigSheFlies #17 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 13:53

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the fact that some folks have found out a way to "do well" by doing the same thing over and over on a map doesn't make it a good map.

 

elevate your game, and learn to do well on any map that requires reading the flow of battle and flexing and you'll start to build a hatred for maps that literally MUST be played the same way over and over and over.  and that's exactly what Province is.  One literally never sees a battle there work in a clockwise flow...  ever...

 

trash map period.



NeatoMan #18 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 13:59

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Just look at the heat map for it on vbaddict;  only one way up for the attack.

Verblonde #19 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 13:59

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I like Province (quite apart from anything else, it has a lot more height variation than most other maps, calling for a refreshing 3D thought process), but because of the smaller size, it probably isn't best suited to high tiers (rather like Mines, for example); so long as it stays in rotation for low-mid tiers, I won't be excessively upset.

__WarChild__ #20 Posted Aug 10 2018 - 14:28

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I play mostly heavies.  At Tiers 8 and above, you better camp and you better camp early and well because trying to get to any other position can lead to instant death.  The map is very pretty and I don't mind it at lower tiers, but they are absolutely doing the right thing with this move.




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