Jump to content


should you want to be on a bad team?


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

cocobabygirl #1 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 15:17

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 10054 battles
  • 109
  • [WCTNT] WCTNT
  • Member since:
    11-21-2016
okay here I go, I have finally with the help of a bunch of great players in this forum have received advice to get my game a little better.  You need to get higher damage and experience to grow your win rate and also helps in all areas crew, tank equipment, etc.  I notice for me when I am on a bad team from the start it allows me to get more damage because of their poor playing skills.  If I'm on a great team they seem to outplay me and beat me to the damage first lol.  So what is better to have a better chance of farming damage when your team is not that good or just take the win which is mostly because your team unicum's carried you?  I know hopefully I will be good someday to swim with the better players but for now I'm just learning and understanding the advice that is giving.  I find my best damage and kills come in games that my team loses, unless I am upper tier which then seems to be a gimmie if you just do the basic's.  I have really improved these skills just by one simple advice of increasing my survival rate and boy was he right.  So what's better a good amount of damage and experience or winning a battle?  I wish both could be performed but for me not right now at my experience level,  but hopefully soon.  Thank you in advance for all your input :B

n00bfarmer #2 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 16:26

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 21 battles
  • 858
  • Member since:
    12-14-2017
I have watched some of those sponsored streams in twitch where the person is playing wot for the first time and it's amazing at the stupid things they do and then blame the game for it or make comments on how the enemy players always seem to have the advantage or are possibly "cheating". Well, they didn't say the word cheating but they were kind of implying it. I am not even talking about things like premium rounds or over powered tanks either. I saw a streamer wasting free xp to unlock the next tank and then having to play it stock, moving their crew to the next tank and not even re-training them because they stupidly wasted all their credits on things they didn't need. Their crew showed red percentages because of not being re-trained. Amazingly, they entered a battle with that crew and were surprised at how poorly their tank performed even after several people in chat warned against playing with a crew that is trained for another tank. You couldn't even help those idiots by telling them exactly what would happen...I remember being new at the game and I wasn't that good but I at least had the common sense to figure out you needed to train a crew for a tank or upgrade the modules to get best performance. If I wasn't sure about something, google takes like 10 seconds to find the information. Most of the mistakes those streamers were making were not "new player" mistakes, they were simply lack of common sense...

Edited by n00bfarmer, Aug 12 2018 - 16:26.


cloudwalkr #3 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 16:26

    Major

  • Players
  • 54304 battles
  • 4,778
  • Member since:
    04-05-2011

It's true, the better your team is...the harder to get your damage.  That's honestly why a lot of top players play solo so much.  When they platoon they have constant "competition".

 

as to any advice I might give you, if that's even what you're looking for, is to keep looking for improvement.  Keep working to be consistent.  The matches with really good teams, make sure you are in the action getting your share...but not dying.  If it's one of those games where your team is pretty bad, make sure you get the best hp trades you can and leave yourself as much possible late game hp as you can to help clean up.  That one is hard because if you notice I'm not saying camp in the back, which a lot of people think that's how you carry bad teams, but I'm saying be in the action getting constant dang but not losing hp.  It's hard to do well lol.

 

either way, great job improving and you're on the right track.  The more you start to "see" the more you grow.

 

Edit:  Not on my phone anymore lol.  The best advice I could give you in my opinion would be to find some other people that are improving at the same rate, if not a little better than you, and start platooning with them and actively work together in 3 man units.  It's honestly the funnest way to play this game if you ask me.  The trick is to find the right people that are competitive enough to want to improve, but at the same time chill and fun to be around.  I had a group of about 5 at one point...sadly they no longer play the game.  

 

Don't think I'm far behind them at this point...


Edited by cloudwalkr, Aug 12 2018 - 16:35.


_Katyusha___ #4 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 16:42

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 14225 battles
  • 810
  • [AWOO] AWOO
  • Member since:
    09-17-2016
I like more being in a good team, less ranting, lol. There is times the mission is to be among the best on your team (despite lose) so a bad team is the easier way to do it for the guy short of time.

Pipinghot #5 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 17:02

    Major

  • Players
  • 25960 battles
  • 8,752
  • [IOC] IOC
  • Member since:
    11-20-2011

View Postcocobabygirl, on Aug 12 2018 - 09:17, said:

okay here I go, I have finally with the help of a bunch of great players in this forum have received advice to get my game a little better.  You need to get higher damage and experience to grow your win rate and also helps in all areas crew, tank equipment, etc.  I notice for me when I am on a bad team from the start it allows me to get more damage because of their poor playing skills.  If I'm on a great team they seem to outplay me and beat me to the damage first lol.  So what is better to have a better chance of farming damage when your team is not that good or just take the win which is mostly because your team unicum's carried you?  I know hopefully I will be good someday to swim with the better players but for now I'm just learning and understanding the advice that is giving.  I find my best damage and kills come in games that my team loses, unless I am upper tier which then seems to be a gimmie if you just do the basic's.  I have really improved these skills just by one simple advice of increasing my survival rate and boy was he right.  So what's better a good amount of damage and experience or winning a battle?  I wish both could be performed but for me not right now at my experience level,  but hopefully soon.  Thank you in advance for all your input :B

In terms of the amount of XP & credits you get, you've pretty much already answered your own question. The best combination of factors is when you win and you're in the top 1/3 of your team and you win. But, as you've already observed, that's hard to do when you're still learning and can't carry games a lot.

 

The problem is that you can't pick & choose your teams, so honestly it just doesn't make sense to spend much time thinking about this topic. You simply want to play your best each and every battle, and then let the chips fall where they may. If you end up carrying and reap lots of rewards that's great, but a single heroic battle doesn't do much for you in the long run. Even if you have a great battle on a x3 weekend and get a bunch of XP, it's still only one battle, and if you counter-balance that battle by screwing up and getting 0 damage the next battle then the great battle really didn't matter.

 

Your goal is to get more consistent as part of your improvement process. And in addition to the information others have given you, one good way to do watch what the good players on your team do. Did you die early? Start watching the good players and pay attention to how they're playing. Did you survive the whole battle, your team won, but you contributed very little? Watch that replay and see what the other players were doing that you weren't. Maybe you didn't assess the teams properly during the countdown, maybe you started off by going to the wrong part of the map, maybe you weren't aggressive enough, maybe... you get the idea. If you take time to watch good players it will help you improve.

 



dunniteowl #6 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 17:21

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 22242 battles
  • 4,591
  • Member since:
    09-01-2014

You know, there are times when it all makes a difference in how you look at things.  Losses, sometimes, you really can see them coming from across the map.  The Lemming Train that HALTS 1/4 of the way to their destination; the team that splits into two flanks and leaves no center element; the camping team with all but maybe three or four units sticking close to base; these are all pretty sure signs of a loss on the way.  Not 100%, mind you, but hey, this is data collected over time and has some weight behind it.

 

In a sure to lose situation, you do the best you can, hit as many times as you can, avoid being hit as much as you can and hope that some of that Luck rubs off on you this time.  In those moments where it is really stacked against you and you're doing well, you may really do some last minute damage.  This can really elevate your XP in a loss, but it can also potentially elevate your team to a win if you maintain this effective fighting level.

 

This is why I never give up, never surrender.  There's always that last RNG moment when you are sure to be blown up and sent to the garage and BOUNCE or MISS and you load up, fire and overcome a few more seconds.  It's always worth working up to the point you can't.

 

I do NOT do insane or even slightly above average damage for my units.  In most cases it's a bit low.  Even so, I am increasing my WR.  This is because I don't have to dominate the entire match, I just have to keep alive, keep plinking and doing that for the whole time.  I like to attempt to do at least 2x my HP in damage overall, but that is a hard mark to carry out many times.  Even so, you can really find yourself, when both teams are sort of low skill distributed, let's call it, on the pounding end of the damage or do the pounding.  In those moments where I and maybe two or three other units held a hotly contested flank, it is sometimes a bit of a surprise that the other side of the map is empty of my team.  All this means, besides the guys over there are gone, is that I wasn't paying enough attention to the overall situation.

 

Would me noticing this make a difference?  I think it does.  Seeing something coming and knowing when it will arrive can allow you time to bug out before it happens -- or setup an ambush if possible.   Maybe even both if you call attention to it on the mini-map.

 

Keep at it and hang in there.  Some stuff will seem easy the first couple of times and then, all of a sudden, you just can't angle, get hull down or make the correct positioning for your tank and that map.  It happens.  That's when you simply do the best you can and follow the mantra:


Survive

Do Damage

Help Your Team

 

It's fun watching you progress as you play.

 

OvO



moon111 #7 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 17:50

    Major

  • Players
  • 30769 battles
  • 2,354
  • Member since:
    06-29-2013

I had used XVM for years.  Right off the hop, I'm deciding how to play based on information from XVM.

 

Without the bias of XVM, I'm working on reading the game for myself.  I'm more likely going to put myself into direct action immediately. 

Early damage is good damage.  I've supported much better players then myself and helped focus fire.  But tomatoes were left to rot, I

wasn't willing to help, to jeopardize my tank with them.  Now, it doesn't matter if the pub has 45% or 65%, if things are going bad, I'm out!

Bail.  Retreat.  Let the situation guide you.  In a lot of cases, you can go untouched as bad players are the ones taking the hits.

 

Think with XVM, bad teams had me preparing for the worst only.  It was a lazy way to play.



Tiocfaidh_Arla #8 Posted Aug 12 2018 - 19:13

    Staff sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 2465 battles
  • 367
  • [DIXIE] DIXIE
  • Member since:
    01-04-2015

View Postcocobabygirl, on Aug 12 2018 - 15:17, said:

okay here I go, I have finally with the help of a bunch of great players in this forum have received advice to get my game a little better.  You need to get higher damage and experience to grow your win rate and also helps in all areas crew, tank equipment, etc.  I notice for me when I am on a bad team from the start it allows me to get more damage because of their poor playing skills.  If I'm on a great team they seem to outplay me and beat me to the damage first lol.  So what is better to have a better chance of farming damage when your team is not that good or just take the win which is mostly because your team unicum's carried you?  I know hopefully I will be good someday to swim with the better players but for now I'm just learning and understanding the advice that is giving.  I find my best damage and kills come in games that my team loses, unless I am upper tier which then seems to be a gimmie if you just do the basic's.  I have really improved these skills just by one simple advice of increasing my survival rate and boy was he right.  So what's better a good amount of damage and experience or winning a battle?  I wish both could be performed but for me not right now at my experience level,  but hopefully soon.  Thank you in advance for all your input :B

 

You can't worry about the other 14. You need to be cognizant of what they do as that should also affect how you play your game. One bit of advice is don't rush in. Dead tanks don't do damage. I would focus on your damage and experience. Winning is not really in your control as you are only 1/15th of the equation. You can affect the outcome but it doesn't happen for most of us most of the time. Things that are important: Equip the proper gear for the tank you are playing, equip the proper consumables, and finally crew experience is very important for overall effectiveness. The crew experience affects every aspect of game play. Make sure that your crew are trained for the right tank you are in. Use your premium vehicles to train those crew. You will get additional credits and experience. When you start doing the damage of the HP's of your vehicle you will start having affects on winning battles. When you use your scout as a scout and spot the enemy without engaging until the proper time you will start having an affect on win rate. Unfortunately, due to the nature of how MM works, you will be put into situations that can't be won at all and there will be those that your team is so stacked that you may not even get damage. Find the right spots on the map. Use your tank's HP's wisely, i.e. learn when you should take a shot, and when you should back away.

 

You could write a bible on sage advice in this game. WHATEVER you do, don't listen to people who tell you to get gudder, they are just making fun of you.



Boghie #9 Posted Aug 14 2018 - 00:22

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 5568 battles
  • 538
  • [WCTNT] WCTNT
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

Well,

 

I wouldn't worry about it.  Personally, I like playing on teams that are good and matched to the opposition.  I like the close, well fought game.  Maybe my stats do dive a tiny bit, but we can all press the 'W' key and go to an appropriate spot.  Actually, I have noted that some folks seem to need a bit of time to find the 'W' key but that is a different topic for a different time.  Anyway, if on a good team just get one additional damaging shot and harass the enemy.  If on a bad team just try to survive a bit longer and get that shot.  On both kinda teams try to get better at reading both team compositions.  Little steps.



Not_Connery #10 Posted Aug 14 2018 - 07:54

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 6907 battles
  • 693
  • Member since:
    02-08-2017

View Postn00bfarmer, on Aug 12 2018 - 16:26, said:

I have watched some of those sponsored streams in twitch where the person is playing wot for the first time and it's amazing at the stupid things they do and then blame the game for it or make comments on how the enemy players always seem to have the advantage or are possibly "cheating". Well, they didn't say the word cheating but they were kind of implying it. I am not even talking about things like premium rounds or over powered tanks either. I saw a streamer wasting free xp to unlock the next tank and then having to play it stock, moving their crew to the next tank and not even re-training them because they stupidly wasted all their credits on things they didn't need. Their crew showed red percentages because of not being re-trained. Amazingly, they entered a battle with that crew and were surprised at how poorly their tank performed even after several people in chat warned against playing with a crew that is trained for another tank. You couldn't even help those idiots by telling them exactly what would happen...I remember being new at the game and I wasn't that good but I at least had the common sense to figure out you needed to train a crew for a tank or upgrade the modules to get best performance. If I wasn't sure about something, google takes like 10 seconds to find the information. Most of the mistakes those streamers were making were not "new player" mistakes, they were simply lack of common sense...

 

The only two sponsored WoT videos worth watching (that I've seen, anyway): 

 



cocobabygirl #11 Posted Aug 14 2018 - 14:04

    Sergeant

  • -Players-
  • 10054 battles
  • 109
  • [WCTNT] WCTNT
  • Member since:
    11-21-2016
Hate to ask but can someone explain the abbreviations on the battle result screen?  Next to winrate there is like two more with percentages and colors obviously showing better or worse than the average player of that battle or in general of that tank? I also use Aslains mod if that is where it roots from, I don't know.  I notice that Wargaming always puts something up and never explains it in easy terms that I get right away.  Maybe it's just me but I always have trouble finding where to go to find answers.  I mostly type in the question and hope google finds it in one of the forums.  I found a WOT manual but it seems to be outdated.  Tankopedia and other wargaming links help but wondering if there is another website or other area that could help me.

Boghie #12 Posted Aug 14 2018 - 14:16

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 5568 battles
  • 538
  • [WCTNT] WCTNT
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

Coco,

 

Those stats are from mods.  You will have to post a photo.  I see stuff like that on my QB game entry panels - but nothing post game.



memegene #13 Posted Aug 16 2018 - 15:43

    Captain

  • Players
  • 28951 battles
  • 1,250
  • [WONKA] WONKA
  • Member since:
    02-21-2013

Hi, if you find that you are doing damage late game on bad teams this has probably more to do with where you are playing in relation to your team. Basically your team was overrun and you farmed the reds as they did it. When winning you are too far back to support the push and therefor do less damage. 

 

watch a few of your replays and it will let you know. 



dunniteowl #14 Posted Aug 16 2018 - 16:28

    Major

  • -Players-
  • 22242 battles
  • 4,591
  • Member since:
    09-01-2014

You know, I would like to add one more thing.  About your title, OP.

 

No-one should 'wish' or 'desire' to be on a 'bad team'.  That said, when on one of those teams, remember to do your best.  Never give up just because it's looking grim and like a loss.  The last few days I have seen wins literally snatched out of my team's hands, most times by failing to exploit opportunity.  In short, when the team folds like a cheap auditorium seat, do your best to get to the stage, because it's time to perform.

 

Last night was a Draw in one match.  At-2 (T5 UK) in a T5-7 match on Live Oak.  I literally thought, "Wow, I'm going to be completely useless here.  Slow, low HP, open map.  Hmm.  City or Rail?"  Hadn't made up my mind till the counter hit zero.  Went rail.  Couldn't keep up.  Thought, "Maybe I can plink something on the 'wrong side' of the rail..."  Nope.

 

Made it to the last bridge, this group and I almost caught up.  By then I had managed a few shots that did something.  I pinged at that point to show the city had been wiped and we needed to go back.  I turned and went back.  Two others turned, the other two kept going.  One beat me back to our cap and got spots on two Red Tanks.  He got a shot off and disappeared.  I fired from where I was on the move.  I hit!  Then hit again! and again.  Then he disappeared, too.  Then another spot from the TD at cap already and he disappeared eight or nine shots later (they were tier VIIs and I was a tier V and I hadn't pressed 2 yet)  My rof in the AT-2 is insane compared to T7 units.  I was back far enough (knock wood my slow beauty, knock wood) that they didn't spot me and my team mates already at cap provided something that made them just charge heedless into them.

 

So I shot them. Again.  And again and again.  Next thing you know, I have three kills.  Suddenly it's not 9 to 5 it's 4 to 6 and it's not looking so hopeless again.  Happy hour's just around the corner.  I get whomped by arty and back-stabbed by their LT one after the other.  Repar and Health, bam bam bam and my teamies come to the rescue and take him out, thanks SPG.  Another TD comes to cap and its the SU100.  I'm thinking, "Oh, I am SO Screwed."  I got over the rail at an angle by the trains (to avoid arty) and out in the total open, fired round after round after round into that guy, hit 2 and did it some more, hit 3 and did it twice, hit 1 and did it four more times.  (My record shows 41 total hits with 13 actual penetrations for this match out of 47 shots fired)

 

He was done.  I couldn't believe it!  In my AT-2 no less!  Now it was two to two and we headed forward.  The Med tank left hiked it forward and he got their other TD, but the Grille got him.  One to one with four minutes left.  Against a Grille and I had 41 HP left.  I went to his cap and looked for him.  I made it to cap at 1:48s and kept going, looking, not enough time to cap, I had to kill, die or draw.

 

It was a draw, but I bounced like 1380 damage and dealt out something like 1483.  I "lost" and it wasn't a "bad" team, however, from some perspectives a lot of mistakes were made on both sides and I really got lucky.  Luck is something to be thankful for -- and then you do your best not to waste it by doing something stupid.  I managed to not do anything really stupid that match and ultimately turned what was going to be a loss in a 'useless' tank on a 'poor' team in places to a One to One Draw down to the very last second, literally.

 

You never hope or want to be on a bad team, but if you are, you should be hoping you aren't the reason.  Man I was SO HOPING I wouldn't be the reason and last night, most matches, i was NOT.  I lost more than I won last night, but I did well more than I did not and that is fine with me.  Some of those other team members on the Red side were simply amazing when viewed from 9fps.

 

Hope that when the team is bad, you can do more than sit at the bottom of that heap.  Never hope to be on a bad team.

 

Gl, HF & HSYBF



Boghie #15 Posted Aug 17 2018 - 21:34

    First lieutenant

  • -Players-
  • 5568 battles
  • 538
  • [WCTNT] WCTNT
  • Member since:
    04-10-2016

Coco,

 

You do not want to be on a bad team.  You want at least one player in the skirmish you are taking part in to know what he/she is doing.

 

 

By the way, this feels right.  More right as the thought experiment gets more realistic.  Remember the battle on Steppes we just had where I took my Rudy to the 'LemmingRush' berms.  Our better players had good positions underneath and were doing the Lords work, but I could do three things:
 

  • I gave the enemy an additional angle of worry
  • I stopped the easy flex to this skirmish.
  • And, I could pling at wounded tanks.
     

They did the work, I just supported.  I did not get much damage, but the damage I inflicted killed tanks.  And, those two good players took advantage of what little I provided and made good on it.  And, after a few of the enemy died it became a rofl-stomp as our eastern flank rolled up the west.

 

You don't want a team of Baddies, you want players that know intrinsically how to take advantage of the edges available.  In our case the Pudel and the Tiger controlled the engagement.  That creates a skirmish win which then results in more skirmishes - and now, if you are aggressive, you get more damage, a higher Wn8, and a better WR.



Soltau_Womble_ #16 Posted Aug 20 2018 - 15:53

    Corporal

  • Players
  • 12336 battles
  • 59
  • Member since:
    02-05-2013

You need to be good to carry a game.

You generally want both teams to be poor to average that increases your input.

Terrible own team just gets u slaughtered faster

Terrible Red team means your own team players achieve more on average thus reducing your input

I'm a huge XVNM user.. 1 reason to improve my input as much as possible it just helps keep track or overall performance. Spot more. hit more learn more by living longer.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users