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Gun Penetration


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Katamariguy1 #1 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 06:12

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Which matters more, the maximum or the minimum penetration?

Accidental__God #2 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 06:14

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View PostKatamariguy1, on Sep 11 2011 - 06:12, said:

Which matters more, the maximum or the minimum penetration?

Always assume you'll get below the minimum, so use that to make the decision.

BigJimJack #3 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 07:23

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I still have no clue about this.  For example just now I shot a E8 in the lower glacis from 25 meters with the 88/56 on my VK3601 and didn't pen.  Even with the min my shot should have gone through..meh me thinks it is just luck of the draw sometimes.

DerJager #4 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 08:09

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The devs fucked up converting the german penetration data over to soviet standards. And since they're Belarussian (and Russian by extention) its probably safe to assume something fishy is going on with the German tanks because of Opperation Barbarossa.


So plan on anything that hits you penetrating your armor, and most of your rounds bouncing. It will leave you pleantly supprised when things go like they did in real life.

Trolling.
1 day RO.

|Sadukar09|

Katamariguy1 #5 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 11:19

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Hmmm. Seems the penetration stat shows different ammo types, not max/min.

K4rn #6 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 12:47

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LOL l2wiki :P

The stats show avererage penetration of 2 or 3 differnet shell types.

LightStriker #7 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 13:59

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My T25AT with 198mm of penetration doesn't penetrate the 120mm front plate of a Lowe. Actually, happens sometime to not penetrate from all side. (Not penetrating the front turret of a VK3001 P twice in a row made me rage and die)
My KV-3 with 175mm of penetration, I almost always penetrate Lowes.

Can't penetrate the front of a KV
The front of a Ram II
The side of a KV-3

ARRRRRRGGGG!!!

aznnoodle727 #8 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 14:03

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My friend and clanmate always tells me its all about the PENETRATION. It's not strictly meant for WoT, either.

:lol:

Elepole #9 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 17:15

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The higher it is, the best it is. Penetration is the only stat who really matter since you'll always get in high tier battle, with tank with lot of armor.


View PostLightStriker, on Sep 11 2011 - 13:59, said:

My T25AT with 198mm of penetration doesn't penetrate the 120mm front plate of a Lowe. Actually, happens sometime to not penetrate from all side. (Not penetrating the front turret of a VK3001 P twice in a row made me rage and die)
My KV-3 with 175mm of penetration, I almost always penetrate Lowes.

Can't penetrate the front of a KV
The front of a Ram II
The side of a KV-3

ARRRRRRGGGG!!!

bad luck, with the T29 (same gun) i penetrated everything.

Ruckex #10 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 18:55

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Some very fishy things happen in this game with penetration rolls.  I've had 200+ penetration rounds fail to penetrate the flat side of an M7 Priest from 80m.  Even on the worst penetration roll, my shell has enough velocity and penetration to go through ten of those tanks stacked side by side.  There's literally no way the math works out if it worked as they claim.  I must assume there are a few serious flaws in the server side calcs.  It doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, it's very obvious that something is FUBAR.

LightStriker #11 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 19:18

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View PostRuckex, on Sep 11 2011 - 18:55, said:

Some very fishy things happen in this game with penetration rolls.  I've had 200+ penetration rounds fail to penetrate the flat side of an M7 Priest from 80m.  Even on the worst penetration roll, my shell has enough velocity and penetration to go through ten of those tanks stacked side by side.  There's literally no way the math works out if it worked as they claim.  I must assume there are a few serious flaws in the server side calcs.  It doesn't happen all that often, but when it does, it's very obvious that something is FUBAR.
I've been under the impression that your shells has a random % of just failing.

Ruckex #12 Posted Sep 11 2011 - 19:33

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View PostLightStriker, on Sep 11 2011 - 19:18, said:

I've been under the impression that your shells has a random % of just failing.

That would certainly explain a few of the really bizarre instances, like the one I describe above.  I always comment to my buddy in voice chat about the shoddy workmanship of the ammunition factories.  No standards these days, I tell ya.   ;)

GenPanzer #13 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 16:35

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So, the question I have is which is more important when evaluating a gun. Damage or Penetration? I've tried searching the forums (not very hard, I admit) and haven't found anything substantial. The reason I ask is I am seeing some tier 5 guns with hellish damage, but not much in penetration compared to tier 4 guns with descent numbers in both. Which stat should I be considering more? I know there is more to look at in evaluating a gun, but these two stats have me a bit baffled. Thanks.

ethics_gradient #14 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 16:41

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There is no minimum penetration figure.  The numbers are for armour piercing rounds, premium rounds, and high explosive rounds.  The actual penetration takes into account the relative angle of the armour in two (possibly three) axis to determine deflection, as well as thickness of the armour vs. the diameter of the shell.  Another very important factor is the skill of your crew (I think).  I understand that unless you have a 100% crew, you are not going to see the max penetraion figure that you see in the technical specs . . . specifically, I believe that you need a 100% gunner, and possibly a 100% commander, though I may be corrected on that point.  Last, you have to hit the other tank in the first place, and there is an accuracy factor associated with each gun.  I believe that 0.30 deviation is the benchmark for whether you have a good sniper gun.

Bottom line, get your crew to 100%, hit the bad guys on the side, and don't hold your breath that you're going to get 100% hits/penetration.

Hope this helps.

Sickocrow #15 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 16:43

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View PostGenPanzer, on Sep 12 2011 - 16:35, said:

So, the question I have is which is more important when evaluating a gun. Damage or Penetration? I've tried searching the forums (not very hard, I admit) and haven't found anything substantial. The reason I ask is I am seeing some tier 5 guns with hellish damage, but not much in penetration compared to tier 4 guns with descent numbers in both. Which stat should I be considering more? I know there is more to look at in evaluating a gun, but these two stats have me a bit baffled. Thanks.


The stats generally go like this;

Penetration with normal ammo   \  Penetration with Premium ammo   \  Penetration with HE ammo
Damage with normal ammo  \  Damage with Premium ammo  \  Damage with HE ammo

You do get some guns that only fire HE, so they only get two stats.  A normal HE stat and premium HE (HEAT) stat

GenPanzer #16 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 16:52

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View PostSickocrow, on Sep 12 2011 - 16:43, said:

The stats generally go like this;

Penetration with normal ammo   \  Penetration with Premium ammo   \  Penetration with HE ammo
Damage with normal ammo  \  Damage with Premium ammo  \  Damage with HE ammo

You do get some guns that only fire HE, so they only get two stats.  A normal HE stat and premium HE (HEAT) stat

I understand how the numbers are listed. My question is which overall numbers are important: Penetration or Damage? Meaning, will I cause more damage to a rival tank using a gun with a higher overall damage value (which kinda makes sense) or with higher overall penetration value? Assume everything else is equal between the two guns being evaluated.

Gumberto #17 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 16:59

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Quote

I understand how the numbers are listed. My question is which overall numbers are important: Penetration or Damage? Meaning, will I cause more damage to a rival tank using a gun with a higher overall damage value (which kinda makes sense) or with higher overall penetration value (assume everything else is equal)?

I think you're going for what is better; high damage, unsatisfactory penetration vs moderate damage, better penetration.

I think no penetration = no HP damage.

GenPanzer #18 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 17:10

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View PostGumberto, on Sep 12 2011 - 16:59, said:

I think you're going for what is better; high damage, unsatisfactory penetration vs moderate damage, better penetration.

I think no penetration = no HP damage.

I have had penetration shots ("That went right through") with no HP reduction. I have had Critical Shots ("Critical Hit"), which I think are also penetration shots, with no HP reduction. I have shots that didn't penetrate (I'm guessing with "Nice Shot") that cause HP reduction.
So what is Damage then? Damage has to be damage, which causes HP reduction, right? Penetration, should also cause HP reduction, because how did you penetrate without damaging something? There should be a big hole where you penetrated, right? The question still remains unanswered? Which is better when evaluating a gun; Damage or Penetration?

Gumberto #19 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 17:24

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View PostGenPanzer, on Sep 12 2011 - 17:10, said:

I have had penetration shots ("That went right through") with no HP reduction. I have had Critical Shots ("Critical Hit"), which I think are also penetration shots, with no HP reduction. I have shots that didn't penetrate (I'm guessing with "Nice Shot") that cause HP reduction.
So what is Damage then? Damage has to be damage, which causes HP reduction, right? Penetration, should also cause HP reduction, because how did you penetrate without damaging something? There should be a big hole where you penetrated, right? The question still remains unanswered? Which is better when evaluating a gun; Damage or Penetration?

Critical shots = some module or crew has been damaged/destroyed or injured/killed.
Critical shots does not mean HP damage.

I'm pretty sure that zero penetration means that no HP damage will happen.
The shell penetration shows up as a range... some minimum to some maximum. (With the average shell penetration being the [min + max / 2]) If you're maximum penetration doesn't breech the armor - even on the backside of the tank - go in the opposite direction. FAST.

I guess it's a flavor thing... would you rather have a better chance of doing some damage, ... or a possibility of doing a lot of damage?

The part that stumps me is "that went right through" and no HP or module dmg. Let me know if you get this one ironed out.

captking #20 Posted Sep 12 2011 - 17:32

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Its all a Roll of the dice...

There is a +-25% spread of the penetration value.  
There is the LOS of the armor you are hitting
There is the "It just bounce because"
There is the Penetrating shot that is absorbed completely by the radioman.
There is the Zero Damage Penetrating Shot
There is the Critical Hit Zero Damage