52 replies to this topic

[NeatoMan]

scHnuuudle_bop, on Sep 16 2018 - 19:01, said:

Pretty well every battle, there is some child complaining about someone camping. More than 1/2 of their subjects are in a place where they can contribute to the game and not die. But the abuse still pours in, more often than not, because the person ranting got killed and is just angry because they died. Anyone not moving to help them is a bad nasty camper.

I'd say the emphasis is on NOT DIE rather than contribute.

 

I'd prefer that new players start out yoloing, instead of camping.  It's far easier to turn a yoloer into a contributing player than it is to turn a camper into one.

[Boghie]

scHnuuudle_bop,

 

Block Quote

But...... there are plenty of players who move up, know the map, and know where they can "camp". That is pause or stop, to spot or shoot. If that pause is extended, to say 3 or 4 shots, they are "camping".

 

In general, this ^^^ is NOT camping.  Someone who moves to a spot where they can damage the enemy (early damage, then mid-game damage, then end-game damage) is not a camper.  If your gun becomes active (with a reasonable chance of success) before your teammates die than you are not camping.

 

Now, if that special someone is in a Heavy and is sitting 400m+ from the enemy and fires low percentage shots till the front line dies or wins is camping.  Part of a HTs job is to take fire and soak damage - that is where the Medium Tanks come into play.  If you find yourself in a Medium tank that is not shooting and not moving than you are camping.  If you are in a Light Tank that is not getting spotting damage and/or not causing hate and discontent than you are probably camping...

 

Or, as in this case, you just don't know what to do.

 

Ericmopar, you were confused not camping.  But, even confused you should always look to support your teams tanks.  When that IS-2 made his move you should have made yours.  Ok, you die (maybe).  But, that gives the enemy two angles to worry about.  Had that enemy killed off the IS-2 what was your plan?  You probably would have died in place in a 2 on 2 game.  Someone that hadn't watched your game would have thought you were slinking three layers deep and taking pot shots in your HT - a solid definition of camping.  Don't worry about the chat.  But, worry about the fact that you did not push when the IS-2 pushed.

 

 

 

[scHnuuudle_bop]

Boghie, on Sep 17 2018 - 01:31, said:

scHnuuudle_bop,

 

 

In general, this ^^^ is NOT camping.  Someone who moves to a spot where they can damage the enemy (early damage, then mid-game damage, then end-game damage) is not a camper.  If your gun becomes active (with a reasonable chance of success) before your teammates die than you are not camping.

 

Now, if that special someone is in a Heavy and is sitting 400m+ from the enemy and fires low percentage shots till the front line dies or wins is camping.  Part of a HTs job is to take fire and soak damage - that is where the Medium Tanks come into play.  If you find yourself in a Medium tank that is not shooting and not moving than you are camping.  If you are in a Light Tank that is not getting spotting damage and/or not causing hate and discontent than you are probably camping...

 

Or, as in this case, you just don't know what to do.

 

Ericmopar, you were confused not camping.  But, even confused you should always look to support your teams tanks.  When that IS-2 made his move you should have made yours.  Ok, you die (maybe).  But, that gives the enemy two angles to worry about.  Had that enemy killed off the IS-2 what was your plan?  You probably would have died in place in a 2 on 2 game.  Someone that hadn't watched your game would have thought you were slinking three layers deep and taking pot shots in your HT - a solid definition of camping.  Don't worry about the chat.  But, worry about the fact that you did not push when the IS-2 pushed.

 

 

 

 

And this is where the problem lies. 

A player who stops, anywhere, anytime, for any reason, for an extended period of time, is camping.

 

There are just more effective ways and places than others. 

 

Just as  there are effective ways of rushing forward, and there are ways, that are  not so much.

 

When I hunt campers, and I just love campers, delicious treats. It is not the player hidden in the back (not spotted, so I can't anyway). It is the hulldown T29, damaging and holding up my teammates. He is in one spot, say just over the crest of a hill. He has moved up, into that position, has backup so cannot be flanked easily. This T29, is just sitting there, up front, and has not moved except up and down the hill. He is camping there, and doing a fantastic job of it. This is the definition of camper.

 

Again I really like the El Halluf example. Either spawn, there are always a horde of campers, they rush a few meters to look over the valley.

Sometimes way way more than it seems is required. SO, if someone rushes down and spots all their campers, there are actually targets to shoot at, and the campers are useful. 

 

Say , someone rushes down, and only spots their brave soul rushing about down there. Well, the 5 TD's camping,  all shooting at one single enemy, along with their teammate down there are , simply put, bad campers.

 

Now even worse, after the enemy below has been vanquished, or their scout is gone, and these same players still sit there, they go from bad campers to idiot campers.

 

The same players, same camping spot, three different outlooks. 

[Boghie]

A camper is an entity who cannot reliably shoot at the enemy till his allies are dead and/or overrun.

 

If you are not shooting, moving, or spotting you are camping.

 

 

 

Block Quote

When I hunt campers, and I just love campers, delicious treats. It is not the player hidden in the back (not spotted, so I can't anyway). It is the hulldown T29, damaging and holding up my teammates. He is in one spot, say just over the crest of a hill. He has moved up, into that position, has backup so cannot be flanked easily. This T29, is just sitting there, up front, and has not moved except up and down the hill. He is camping there, and doing a fantastic job of it. This is the definition of camper.

I don't know anyone who would call the above chap a camper.  Maybe some moron who died and thought he was the only one in the game and suddenly found the mini-map - but why try to decipher that guys comment.  This example even demonstrates a player who is using hull-down techniques aggressively.  This is an example of someone who moved to an effective firing position and is causing early game damage.

 

'Camper' is a derogatory term.  It is a slug who cannot reliably hit an enemy till the forward tanks are overrun.  Sometimes they are so safe that they cannot even aim at targets lit for them by the frontline tanks.  Additionally, if you are playing a decent HT, MT, or LT in an Arty or TD position you are a camper.  Sometimes they win, but the odds decisively go against them.  They are the slugs that can get lots of useless damage as they get swarmed.

 

It does not matter that they damage a few tanks end-game.  It really also doesn't matter that they get lucky and win a game by camping.  Had they been firing their gun, forcing the enemy to react to them, soaking up some damage, etc. then the team had a better chance of winning.  That single slug in the HT that snipes from the backline rocks in El Halluf is camping because the odds are that he/she is much, much more useful in the NW fight.  When that slug meanders to a TD rock and SitzKriegs it all the other tanks on his team are forced to adjust.  And, not in a good way.

 

Edited by Boghie, Sep 17 2018 - 02:12.

[NeatoMan]

scHnuuudle_bop, on Sep 16 2018 - 19:49, said:

And this is where the problem lies. 

A player who stops, anywhere, anytime, for any reason, for an extended period of time, is camping.

That's not how people have used the term camping in this game...  ever.  You are trying to drag definitions that people use in other games here.  It has never been used that way in WoT...   until you appeared.    Campers are bad and should feel bad.

[scHnuuudle_bop]

NeatoMan, on Sep 17 2018 - 02:12, said:

That's not how people have used the term camping in this game...  ever.  You are trying to drag definitions that people use in other games here.  It has never been used that way in WoT...   until you appeared.    Campers are bad and should feel bad.

 

Okay, I agree to disagree, and it is only a definition.

 

I hate to mention it, as it always draws ire.

The developers of the game, state, the role of a certain is to discourage camping. 

So, do you think they are taking about  the people hiding up front and fighting, or the players hiding in the back doing nothing?

It is clear, that the developers are referring to the first definition, of the "good campers".  Just as many gamers do, yes it has negative connotations, but there are 2 forms, and one is a good tactic and the other not so much.

Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Sep 18 2018 - 00:35.

[BEASTY_BUCKEYE]

Definitions of camping.   

1 Being useless not supporting team movement.

2 Not shooting the enemy tanks or spotting 

3 Hiding in the back on full hp till team is dead not shooting or doing any thing really 

4 Taking a position and sitting there the whole game and not advancing from there. 

   

[Boghie]

scHnuuudle_bop, on Sep 16 2018 - 20:36, said:

 

Okay, I agree to disagree, and it is only a definition.

 

I hate to mention it, as it always draws ire.

The developers of the game, state, the role of artillery is to discourage camping. 

So, do you think they are taking about  the people hiding up front and fighting, or the players hiding in the back doing nothing?

It is clear, that the developers are referring to the first definition, of the "good campers".  Just as many gamers do, yes it has negative connotations, but there are 2 forms, and one is a good tactic and the other not so much.

 

No bro...  It is a common joke that arty is 'the camping-prevention unit'.  It is called </sarcasm>.  

 

Someone actively holding or attacking on a flank by definition is NOT camping.  Think about what the word 'camping' implies.  It means laying out a blanket, unwrapping a good steak sandwich, popping the cork on a bottle of wine, and espying the fauna and wildlife through your opera binos.  Thus, if you are sitting the red line and the only time your gun comes into play is when one or both flanks are blown you are camping.

 

OP thought the commenter was calling HIM a camper.  He was calling his team campers.  And, he was wrong.  Now, OP kinda camped end-game.  Maybe he thought it was smart to hang back because he seemed to be targeted - but, as soon as his teammates pushed he had to push.  He was camping at that moment - but, not in a true camper way.  He was just confused.

Edited by Boghie, Sep 17 2018 - 02:51.

[Ericmopar]

Kliphie, on Sep 16 2018 - 05:32, said:

Your team was very passive during the cleanup phase at the end but nearly everyone was a 1 shot to them so it was understandable.  The issue was that when the reds were getting lit, none of you were in good positions to take shots. 

 

I'm guessing you either weren't playing when Pilsen was in the game or have forgotten it's layout.  You wasted nearly half of your gold rounds attempting to shoot through 50-meter thick buildings.  

 

 

 

In the months I've been playing, I could count on one hand the number of times I've been on that map. IE I'm not sure what walls are pennable and what aren't yet.

I can't vouch for my team mates, but was blind as a bat. At the end of the match, I was clearly being spotted by the TC on the other side of the map, but I couldn't see and shoot him, unless one of my team mates lit him up.

As far as the TD and the Heavy that was near the red cap, both would have easily one shot me if I came out of my hole without backup.

I was trying to spot by sticking just my gun up, but I didn't have enough spotting range, even when the binoculars were activated.

Edited by Ericmopar, Sep 17 2018 - 04:38.

[Ericmopar]

I wasn't confuse. I was a easy one shot. I did come out with the team mate to the left of me when Only the KV-1S was left and I did get one more shot in, but my team mate backup up and I lost the ability to take a second shot. With the bloom on that KV-1 I wouldn't have hit that KV-1S if I was actually moving.

Most of the tanks I kept running into, like the tiger, had more than enough pen to kill me in no time, so yeah, I was playing around trying to distract him mostly while my team when to the right and got behind him. 

I was down in the canal with one shot remaining on my HP and was trying to stick my gun up and sit still and light up the remaining two reds. If I had played aggressively I wouldn't have lasted half the game.

If I got to play Pilsen more, I'd have a better idea of what I can shoot through and what I can't.

 

 

Edited by Ericmopar, Sep 17 2018 - 04:30.

[Ericmopar]

As far as these other responses. I learned the hard way not to "push" when two tiers down, move up and try to pop a shot in yes, but just moving up with tanks two tiers higher results in much potatoing and no XP for the crew.

I was keeping the reds occupied to the best of my ability. It's like the Tiger in the Warehouse, I couldn't take it on directly, but I could take popshots at it while my team to the right, I saw them there, could get behind with some bigger guns and defeat it from the rear.

 

[scHnuuudle_bop]

Boghie, on Sep 17 2018 - 02:49, said:

 

No bro...  It is a common joke that arty is 'the camping-prevention unit'.  It is called </sarcasm>.  

 

Someone actively holding or attacking on a flank by definition is NOT camping.  Think about what the word 'camping' implies.  It means laying out a blanket, unwrapping a good steak sandwich, popping the cork on a bottle of wine, and espying the fauna and wildlife through your opera binos.  Thus, if you are sitting the red line and the only time your gun comes into play is when one or both flanks are blown you are camping.

 

OP thought the commenter was calling HIM a camper.  He was calling his team campers.  And, he was wrong.  Now, OP kinda camped end-game.  Maybe he thought it was smart to hang back because he seemed to be targeted - but, as soon as his teammates pushed he had to push.  He was camping at that moment - but, not in a true camper way.  He was just confused.

 

well I go with the definition that is used in every shoot em up game I have ever played, and the same as the developers of this game use, as well as a number of players of this game.

years ago during the COD popularity,  the sniper was a reviled player, because they "camped", well that is their precise role, most would set up, right at spawn, so they both defended their base and were able to also support forward players. This was the first time I saw these negative comments. SOme non snipers would do the same, but could not meet the long shot criteria, therefore their only role was to protect the base, and no other contribution. Thus the term "base camper", and its negative reputation.

Look it up, edit wiki if you wish, does not change it, a camper is slang for someone who, "sets up camp" or "sets up a tent" in a bush or behind a rock, and uses that "camping spot" to his and the teams advantage.

 

Yes, there is every game, and in every battle where someone snivels about campers. they are either misunderstanding the term, and using its subset, a spawn camper, or in almost all of the cases, just a wanker who thinks another player should have helped him,  and not stayed where he was.

 

A camper is a player who for whatever reason, stays in the same place for an extended time. whether or not this player contributes, has nothing to do with term "camper"

 

Mr Mopar, you and your team in the replay did a fine job, at the end, it was just a player who was cranky, because no one followed his demands.

Ignore them, you and your team played the game well. Continue to err on the side of caution , rather than the desire to rush about. 

Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Sep 17 2018 - 04:43.

[The_Pushok]

wth, why you keep shooting at walls? It was like you were a bot, only worse. Do you have a mental disability?

[ARCNA442]

And in this thread we see an arty apologist derail an valuable discussion with a new player in a vain attempt to redefine a word to make his favorite class sound less broken.

[scHnuuudle_bop]

ARCNA442, on Sep 17 2018 - 04:59, said:

And in this thread we see an arty apologist derail an valuable discussion with a new player in a vain attempt to redefine a word to make his favorite class sound less broken.

THe only thing derailing the thread is the misuse of a very common term.

I argue nothing about arty, as  a matter of fact, you are the first one to use the term, you really are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. The definition is pretty simple, as it is in common use for years and is even the online definition in every place you can look. 

 

If you want a childish argument about a class of tanks in the game, then take your juvenile posting elsewhere.

 

If you have something to add to a conversation go ahead, but  this is just a personal attack.

 

And the definition used defends nothing, do you even read these threads, or are you one of the children who just leap in whenever a word they dislike appears.

Edited by scHnuuudle_bop, Sep 17 2018 - 05:17.

[NeatoMan]

scHnuuudle_bop, on Sep 16 2018 - 22:37, said:

well I go with the definition that is used in every shoot em up game I have ever played,...

You are in WoT now.  those definitions do not apply.  Nobody has ever considered anything else outside of being useless as camping.

[Hurk]

ARCNA442, on Sep 16 2018 - 20:59, said:

And in this thread we see an arty apologist derail an valuable discussion with a new player in a vain attempt to redefine a word to make his favorite class sound less broken.

NeatoMan, on Sep 17 2018 - 03:55, said:

You are in WoT now.  those definitions do not apply.  Nobody has ever considered anything else outside of being useless as camping.

yes, lets change the english language to suit our needs instead of using proper words. 

how about, learn proper definitions instead and stop being dense about it. 

 

taking a largely static position on the map is camping. 

sitting behind a rock, useless, is not camping. its being useless. 

sitting at base and waiting for the match to be decided by everyone else to get some pot shots as the enemy rushes over you is not camping. its being useless. 

 

to help you transition to proper english, use the term "back camping".  people camping in the back, out of combat. which is different than camping, IE taking up an actual location of value. 

 

 

oh, and its not an arty apologist trying to derail anything. its someone relaying what the devs already said to you again. its not the devs fault that you are ignorant of the proper use of the language you speak. 

Edited by Hurk, Sep 17 2018 - 16:41.

[NeatoMan]

Hurk, on Sep 17 2018 - 10:36, said:

yes, lets change the english language to suit our needs instead of using proper words. 

how about, learn proper definitions instead and stop being dense about it. 

 

taking a largely static position on the map is camping. 

sitting behind a rock, useless, is not camping. its being useless. 

sitting at base and waiting for the match to be decided by everyone else to get some pot shots as the enemy rushes over you is not camping. its being useless. 

 

to help you transition to proper english, use the term "back camping".  people camping in the back, out of combat. which is different than camping, IE taking up an actual location of value. 

 

oh, and its not an arty apologist trying to derail anything. its someone relaying what the devs already said to you again. its not the devs fault that you are ignorant of the proper use of the language you speak.

 

<video>

 

Fair enough, but it's use in WoT has almost exclusively been limited to the useless kind of camping.  You never hear anyone get congratulated for doing a good job of camping.

 

As far as that video, he states arty's purpose is to prevent turtling as a team tactic, i.e. to prevent the massing of armor.  That's not quite the same as the individual camper. 

[Hurk]

hes the same guy that said "arty exists to counter camping". hes now rephrasing it due to exactly the problem  we have here on the forums, which is a misuse of camping....

so now hes misusing turtling (which is actually several players camping in mutual support) 

 

if we can change the basic to "back camping" then everyone will be on the same page and people will stop misquoting and responding with the whole arty doesnt counter camping it causes it crap. 

 

arty doesnt counter back camping and in fact, many players will back camp due to arty. this is a good thing, it means arty is doing its job and suppressing the enemy. 

[Flarvin]

scHnuuudle_bop, on Sep 16 2018 - 17:39, said:

The term is misused and has 2 different definitions. 

 

You need to know the definition used by your audience. Regardless how many actual definitions the term might hold. 

 

On this forum, camping means bad camping.