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Theory: there was an M6 variant with the T29 turret

M6 M6A2EI M6A2E1 T29

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Fanatyzm #1 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 21:55

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So, doing some reading and research on information provided about both tanks many months ago, there was a very vague statement on Wikipedia that says "T29 - late-war prototype heavy tank; early version turret and gun tested on M6A2E1 variant"

 

Could that possibly mean there was, for a short time, an M6A2E1 hull that carried the prototype T29 turret? It's actually plausible considering the turret rings are very similar, being 80" in diameter, or ~203.2cm.



FrozenKemp #2 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 22:05

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Maybe the turret on the M6A2E1 was a prototype turret for the T29?

US_3rd_Army #3 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 22:21

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You mean the M6A2E1?

 

It's in the game as a tier 8 heavy tank. It's not for sale at the moment.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Tank:A45_M6A2E1

 



Fanatyzm #4 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 22:38

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No, I'm aware, but, excuse this lack of professionalism, there was a bit of archived information saying that an actual T29 turret with the 279mm frontal armor was used. I'm not sure if I can cite this currently (ill be looking for stuff to cite this) From what I can vaguely understand, the turret was possibly mounted on the M6A2E1.

FrozenKemp #5 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 22:49

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If there was, I wonder if it's mentioned in Hunnicutt's Firepower

Fanatyzm #6 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 22:58

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View PostFrozenKemp, on Sep 19 2018 - 15:49, said:

If there was, I wonder if it's mentioned in Hunnicutt's Firepower

 

I've never read the book, but I'd be happy as hell to get my hands on it or a digital copy/PDF.

 

However, I am unsure if it would be mentioned, considering the tank sporting the T29 turret would most likely not even be considered a T29 or M6 prototype, just merely a test bed for the functionality of the turret, not the turret coupled with the hull.



MFGrant #7 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 23:00

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Note seems to indicate that could be the case.  I'm guessing they had a turret design ready before a hull was and probably used the M6 to give it a go.

Fanatyzm #8 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 23:02

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still more plausible and possible than the japanese heavy line, as much as i like that line.

 

the tank would be broken tho. there would be an issue with weight considering the T29 turret weighs less in-game, effectively making this beast insanely fast for having a ridiculous amount of armor. not to mention the height of the M6 hull would make it almost impossible for people to fight this thing from the front.



Fanatyzm #9 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 23:06

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so, that brings me to another idea: could there be a second US heavy line or could this be a reward tank?

i only say this because this thing, if anyone were to take favor to it, would be wayyyy too overpowered to be a tier VIII premium.

 

i can see it working as a tier IX or X. Mount it with the 120mm of the T34, or, for balance sake, mount it with an improved 105mm with decent pen for whatever tier its placed at.



Legiondude #10 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 23:09

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Firepower says that the M6A2E1 turret was designed for the T29, but there's no indication that it was accepted for the T29 project in the book. Shapeshifter was responsible for the revisions of the vehicle in game by gathering primary source data on the M6 family of vehicles, and this is his opinion on the turret

 

Emphasis added

 prototype of the T29 turret. Very very early written descriptions of the wooden mockup state it's basically an enlarged T26E1 turret. It went through numerous design changes as the months went on and just before production on the T29 it basically reads as looking more or less like the T29 turret. (no photos of these exist)

Armour changed numerous times as well from fairly thin for a heavy towards very thick.

Aug 1944
7.5 to 5 inch frontal, sides and rear 2.5 inches and 1 inch roof

Oct 1944
8 inch gun shield, 8 inch frontal and 4 inch sides and rear

Dec 1944
3.5 inch gun shield, ? frontal and 2.5 inch sides and rear with a 1.5 inch roof

March 1945 Decided to increase the armor basis of the turret and gun shield. Drawings of the thickened turret, gun mount shield and elevating mechanism have been released.

April 1945
Redesigned turret is based on a 4 man turret crew, Commander located in turret bulge on center line of turret (starting to sound like the T29 here in this status update)

May 1945
Situation report # 32 refers to the release of drawings covering a thickened turret gun mount shield and modified elevating mechanism. on completion of the turret assemblies for the two pilot vehicles it was found that the trunnion bearing friction was excessive. fixed by replacing with needle bearings before shipment for installation on M6A2E1

August 1945 Owing to the introduction of numerous changes and improvements in the design of the T29 heavy tank turret subsequent to the design and manufacture of the turret used on the M6A2E1 heavy tank, the two turrets are not now strictly comparable.

 

And thats just what I was able to dig up. They ended up mounting those thicker heavier gun shields which caused problems but no details on how thick that was on the M6A2E1 (more then 8 inches basis?) on firing tests done on one of the turrets (no idea which version) the turret front was up to 9 inches thick with an 8 inch rear. They don't mention the shield other then in the metallurgical report that a section was taken 6 inches from the curved edge that was 3.5 to 2 inches thick

 

 



Fanatyzm #11 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 23:15

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View PostLegiondude, on Sep 19 2018 - 16:09, said:

Firepower says that the M6A2E1 turret was designed for the T29, but there's no indication that it was accepted for the T29 project in the book. Shapeshifter was responsible for the revisions of the vehicle in game by gathering primary source data on the M6 family of vehicles, and this is his opinion on the turret

 

 

 

 

this is actually very valuable information, thanks for posting it!

 

what im getting from this is that there was a brief period of time in which the research and experimentation on both tanks was very hush-hush or, for some reason, undocumented or vaguely documented.

 

my theory is that the M6A2E1 hull was simply used to test the functionality and mechanisms of the T29 turret while functioning on a hull. if said test was done, it was most likely very short lived, considering how insignificant it is to the development of the tank itself.



Legiondude #12 Posted Sep 19 2018 - 23:17

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View PostFanatyzm, on Sep 19 2018 - 17:15, said:

 

this is actually very valuable information, thanks for posting it!

 

what im getting from this is that there was a brief period of time in which the research and experimentation on both tanks was very hush-hush or, for some reason, undocumented or vaguely documented.

 

my theory is that the M6A2E1 hull was simply used to test the functionality and mechanisms of the T29 turret while functioning on a hull. if said test was done, it was most likely very short lived, considering how insignificant it is to the development of the tank itself.

He's dug up a few gems in his searches

 

Like a consideration to mount a T26 turret assembly or a Firefly one on the M6 hull.

 

And then of course there's the hull design we see in game.



DVK9 #13 Posted Sep 20 2018 - 00:56

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Has more proof of being an actual tank than some of WG's wishful tanks.

I really want the Ratt (Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte) on it own separate heavy line with a crew of 40 and its own hospital.

Or give me my waffle back

 



Fanatyzm #14 Posted Sep 20 2018 - 20:47

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View PostDVK9, on Sep 19 2018 - 17:56, said:

Has more proof of being an actual tank than some of WG's wishful tanks.

I really want the Ratt (Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte) on it own separate heavy line with a crew of 40 and its own hospital.

Or give me my waffle back

 

 

Well, the E1 with the T29 turret isn't its own tank. It's just a test bed. It would be named something similar to "T29 Test Bed" or "T123 Test Bed" or the later turret design, "T136 Test Bed"

Fanatyzm #15 Posted Oct 18 2018 - 22:16

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still wanna see more american heavies





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