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SU-130PM: Russian Skorpion G?

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Avalon304 #41 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 02:26

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View Postramp4ge, on Sep 24 2018 - 18:14, said:

 

.35 is really good..

 

By comparison, the Pershing's in at .37 and it's one of the most accurate tanks on the US tree. .35 is the same as the M18 and nobody has ever called an M18's gun "inaccurate".

 

Most US vehicles are .37 or worse..

 

The US tier 8 TDs' 120mm is in at .38...

 

Yeah. "Not a sniper" my [edited]. 

 

 

0.35 is not "really good" its average at best. "Really good" is 0.31 or lower.

 

Its still not a sniper... and from the rest of the tanks stats... right now it looks to be worse than the Skorpion is every way that really matters except for alpha. Given that the Skorpion does indeed appear balanced by its tank curves, this tank actually probably wont be an issue. If the stats get buffed from here, then you can start worrying.

 

https://ritastatusre...tat-comparison/

 

EDIT: Infact... outside of its speed... it compare more to a 128mm Rhm. Borsig than it does the Skorpion. (And it still doesnt have a full turret).


Edited by Avalon304, Sep 25 2018 - 02:28.


The_Ice_Cream_Man_ #42 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 03:46

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View PostBEASTY_BUCKEYE, on Sep 25 2018 - 01:33, said:

Serge shouldn't we work on more balancing in the game?  No comrade all we need is more russian tanks.  And russian tanks have to be strong and out perform all tanks of there tier and higher haha.  But what about all the other powercreeped  tanks from other nation surge.  Sucks to be them comrade. muhahaha

 

i think its a sign WG largest player base the russian server is in decline also in population.  NA is competitive so they were not able to keep up with the various online games and new ones coming out constantly to keep interest to grow the NA player base.

 

I dont think quite got the reality Americans wanna play American tanks, and their lack of OP tanks comparitively to Russian OP tanks in terms of armor, alpha, pen and mobility created a disconnect with player base wanting to play American Tanks.

 

The reality is we dont need more russian heavy, med, and TD's lol.  But they constantly turn out new op russian tanks, and for the NA server they get sherman and pershing reskins to counter the new op russian tanks that have med tank mobility, heavy armor, high alpha and high pen.

 

And the devs responses to other nations getting tanks that currently exist or new ones is they dont wanna make fake tanks cuz the blue prints or prototypes dont exist and they wanna be historically accurate when asked why not put new tanks in the german tech tree, or even a new Canadian tech tree.



TheManFromKekistan #43 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 07:09

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View Postramp4ge, on Sep 24 2018 - 19:16, said:

 

It's not OP, people just play it more than any other tank by an enormous degree because reasons! 

 

I mean, if it was played 5,000 more games than the next highest, you might have a point. But it wasn't. It was played 90,000 more games than the next highest.

 

People played it because it was OP. Not because it was "perfectly balanced". 

 

Just a thought since the skorp has been on sale a zillion times but the defender only twice don't you think there might be a few more skorps in play than defenders so that there are more in the queue at any given time hence more games played globally? :bajan:

Striker_70 #44 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 11:35

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View Postramp4ge, on Sep 24 2018 - 18:16, said:

 

It's not OP, people just play it more than any other tank by an enormous degree because reasons! 

 

I mean, if it was played 5,000 more games than the next highest, you might have a point. But it wasn't. It was played 90,000 more games than the next highest.

 

People played it because it was OP. Not because it was "perfectly balanced". 

 

Yes people played it because of reasons already stated:

 

  • it's fun to play
  • it earns good credits
  • It's mistakenly thought of as OP
  • it's up for sale a lot

 

The amount a tank is played =/= how OP a tank is.  You tell how OP a tank is by looking at how much it artificially inflates/deflates a player's win rate, not by how much it's played.



Trauglodyte #45 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 14:34

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View Postdocroberts, on Sep 24 2018 - 21:18, said:

This is the article about the tank that was posted earlier . 

Today Wargaming is starting the closed test of a new Soviet Tier VIII Premium tank destroyer SU-130PM. An unhistorical vehicle based on the SU-100P light tank destroyer prototype.

A fully operational SU-100P unit passed the trials and was greenlit for service, but it never entered mass production. Two other versions were tested, SU-152P with a 152mm anti-tank gun and a self-propelled version also with a 152mm gun denominated SU-152G. The surviving vehicles can be seen in Kubinka Tank Museum.
The main difference between the game version and the completed prototype is the armament: in-game it boasts a more powerful 130mm cannon. Gameplay-wise, the SU-130PM is a compact vehicle with decent mobility, great camo and a hard-hitting gun with an alpha of 520 and a penetration of 243 mm with a standard round. You can hardly call this gun a sniper as its base accuracy is 0.35, but it still allows you to be effective at almost any distance.
The SU-130PM is agile enough to benefit from switching flanks and firing positions. Its top speed is 65 km/h but it’s attainable after a period of time and on terrain with good traction—off-road it doesn’t perform so well. The cruising speed of the SU-130PM is between 45–55 km/h.
The SU-130PM is very scantily armoured, has a small HP pool of 1100 points and a limited horizontal firing arc of 155 degrees. To survive in battle, you’ll need to rely on camouflage and using your mobility wisely. In resume, the SU-130P will be the Soviet version of the already in-game Skorpion G, but with better camouflage values.

Last but not least, you should note this will be the first turreted Soviet tank destroyer, possibly opening the doors to the introduction of a new branch of Soviet turreted tank destroyers. Until we can confirm this, we will have to wait and see what will turn out of this vehicle.

 

I read the article and I quoted it in my first post.  My issue is with the fact that it is "non-historical" and, point of fact, never existed with the 130 mm.  So, why create a fake tank when they could create the historical tank and put it at tier 7, like Krupp Steyer WT?  For that matter, say that they wanted to put it at tier 8, why use a 130 instead of the 122?  This just screams prototypical WG.

 

Now, I could be totally wrong on everything and this could turn into a tier 8 K-91 TD which, in turn, will be completely forgotten.  With their track record, I just worry about stuff like this.



docroberts #46 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 14:41

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View PostThe_Ice_Cream_Man_, on Sep 24 2018 - 18:39, said:

 

when it comes to other nations in game or not in game WG says they do not want ot make fake tanks.  This tank does not exist cuz it was never produced, but sits in the secret halls of the kremlin for high ranking party supporters to admire, it doesnt sit in kubinka museum, but its actually in warthunder.

 

they wont buff the grille 15 but they will make a russian grille 15 line reskin that is better.

 

Oh I know . I still wont touch my Freaking Grill after they took my WT . 50 thousand Russian tanks and new lines but  make all other lines and nations obsolete . 

VinnyI82 #47 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 14:44

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And still no t8 american td prem.  cool.

docroberts #48 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 15:23

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Sep 25 2018 - 07:34, said:

 

I read the article and I quoted it in my first post.  My issue is with the fact that it is "non-historical" and, point of fact, never existed with the 130 mm.  So, why create a fake tank when they could create the historical tank and put it at tier 7, like Krupp Steyer WT?  For that matter, say that they wanted to put it at tier 8, why use a 130 instead of the 122?  This just screams prototypical WG.

 

Now, I could be totally wrong on everything and this could turn into a tier 8 K-91 TD which, in turn, will be completely forgotten.  With their track record, I just worry about stuff like this.

 

One thing is for sure its just in the test server for now . But over all I myself don't care they bring out another preem tank . What I care about in this game is your forced pretty much to play one nation only . They have put in a Chinese preem in the shop . Selective release on the new French  . AT 15A is there but not to many people pay attention to that one . SU-122-44 is ok  , M-56 for the American line but there again who wants that thing . They need just to sit down and give all nations a good tier 8 across the board including Artys .. But I do think right off the bat the damage needs to be pulled back below 500 . And the pen on this is 243 witch is fine . Scorp is 246 I think . So essentially they are pretty close . But they need to add these in the shop permanently and not a selective sale . The main reason I play my Scorp over the 88 is very simple . I can do something with it and grind my crews . But with Tier 8 being bad these days Im not so certain about dropping to tier 7 and grind crews there instead . 

docroberts #49 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 15:42

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from todays test 

Penetration 243 / 320 / 65 (mm)
Damage 520 / 520 / 660 (HP)
Reload Time 11.99 (s)
Rate of Fire 5.04 (rpm)
Damage per Minute 2,621 (HP/m)
Concealment of Stationary Vehicle (%) 33.5 / 5.13 (%)
Concealment of Moving Vehicle (%) 20.1 / 3.08 (%)
View Range 360 (m)
Signal Range 730 (m)
Weight / Load Limit 24.00 / 27.00 (t)
Engine Power 400 (h.p.)
Specific Power 16.67 (h.p./t)
Top Speed / Reverse Speed 65 / 20 (km/h)
Terrain Resistance 1.151 / 1.438 / 2.877 (m/s2)
Accuracy 0.336
Aim Time 2.21 (s)
Aiming Circle Spread  
after Shot 2.877 ;)
on Turret Traverse 0.134 ;)
on Vehicle Move 0.221 ;)
on Vehicle Traverse 0.221 ;)
on Turret Full Speed Traversing 2.95 ;)
on Vehicle Full Speed Moving 13.71 ;)
on Vehicle Full Speed Traversing 7.59 ;)
Elevation / Depression +20 / -7 (deg)
Turret Traverse Speed 22.9 (deg/s)
Chassis Traverse Speed 36.0 (deg/s)
Tier VIII
Hit Points 1,100 (HP)
Hull Armour 20 / 15 / 8 (mm)
Turret Armour 15 / 6 / 6 (mm)


jamesdoz #50 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 17:35

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the td is better is every way then the skorpian- it has great camo almost e-25 like- 

jamesdoz #51 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 17:36

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Tier VIII
Hit Points 1,100 (HP)
Hull Armour 20 / 15 / 8 (mm)
Turret Armour 15 / 6 / 6 (mm)
Penetration 243 / 320 / 65 (mm)
Damage 520 / 520 / 660 (HP)
Reload Time 11.99 (s)
Rate of Fire 5.04 (rpm)
Damage per Minute 2,621 (HP/m)

 



jamesdoz #52 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 17:37

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Accuracy 0.336
Aim Time 2.21 (s)
Aiming Circle Spread  
after Shot 2.877 ;)
on Turret Traverse 0.134 ;)
on Vehicle Move 0.221 ;)
on Vehicle Traverse 0.221 ;)
on Turret Full Speed Traversing 2.95 ;)
on Vehicle Full Speed Moving 13.71 ;)
on Vehicle Full Speed Traversing 7.59 ;)
Elevation / Depression +20 / -7 (deg)
Turret Traverse Speed 22.9 (deg/s)
Chassis Traverse Speed 36.0 (deg/s)

 

Weight / Load Limit 24.00 / 27.00 (t)
Engine Power 400 (h.p.)
Specific Power 16.67 (h.p./t)
Top Speed / Reverse Speed 65 / 20 (km/h)
Terrain Resistance 1.151 / 1.438 / 2.877 (m/s2)


jamesdoz #53 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 17:38

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Concealment of Stationary Vehicle (%) 33.5 / 5.13 (%)
Concealment of Moving Vehicle (%) 20.1 / 3.08 (%)

 

View Range 360 (m)
Signal Range 730 (m)


Trauglodyte #54 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 18:06

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View Postdocroberts, on Sep 25 2018 - 15:23, said:

 

One thing is for sure its just in the test server for now . But over all I myself don't care they bring out another preem tank . What I care about in this game is your forced pretty much to play one nation only . They have put in a Chinese preem in the shop . Selective release on the new French  . AT 15A is there but not to many people pay attention to that one . SU-122-44 is ok  , M-56 for the American line but there again who wants that thing . They need just to sit down and give all nations a good tier 8 across the board including Artys .. But I do think right off the bat the damage needs to be pulled back below 500 . And the pen on this is 243 witch is fine . Scorp is 246 I think . So essentially they are pretty close . But they need to add these in the shop permanently and not a selective sale . The main reason I play my Scorp over the 88 is very simple . I can do something with it and grind my crews . But with Tier 8 being bad these days Im not so certain about dropping to tier 7 and grind crews there instead . 

 

I agree.  There is probably a good bit of unnecessary angst about it, and I'm included in that group, because it is Russian and the given fear of it being broken, because it is Russian.  We'll see, though.

 

-----

 

Edit:

 

On your test's camo values, is that with or without a net?

 

Aside from that, the new Russian tank beats the Skorpion out on:
 

  • Camo
  • Alpha
  • Reload
  • DPM
  • Soft Stats
  • Top Speed
  • Power/weight
  • Tank traverse speed
  • Turret traverse speed
  • Gun elevation

 

The Skorpion has:
 

  • Dispersion (means nothing)
  • Aim time

 

Looks like the fears were a given.


Edited by Trauglodyte, Sep 25 2018 - 18:11.


docroberts #55 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 19:31

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Sep 25 2018 - 11:06, said:

 

I agree.  There is probably a good bit of unnecessary angst about it, and I'm included in that group, because it is Russian and the given fear of it being broken, because it is Russian.  We'll see, though.

 

-----

 

Edit:

 

On your test's camo values, is that with or without a net?

 

Aside from that, the new Russian tank beats the Skorpion out on:
 

  • Camo
  • Alpha
  • Reload
  • DPM
  • Soft Stats
  • Top Speed
  • Power/weight
  • Tank traverse speed
  • Turret traverse speed
  • Gun elevation

 

The Skorpion has:
 

  • Dispersion (means nothing)
  • Aim time

 

Looks like the fears were a given.

 

In the end it's typical WGing at it's funniest . I think my STRV beats this on camo though . Cause its 57.03/11.92 and overall rating with vents Bia , and 2 guys with camo its at 862 total . They did say the mobility would be cut down on soft terrain . But in the end this thing has a turret and that's all the advantage that it needs . But yes it needs to be brought down in comparison in lines of the scorp . Scorp is tall and narrow , STRV is short and flat . This things looks right in between the two . Depends on the model when they are finished testing and adjusting . 

Trauglodyte #56 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 19:35

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View Postdocroberts, on Sep 25 2018 - 19:31, said:

 

In the end it's typical WGing at it's funniest . I think my STRV beats this on camo though . Cause its 57.03/11.92 and overall rating with vents Bia , and 2 guys with camo its at 862 total . They did say the mobility would be cut down on soft terrain . But in the end this thing has a turret and that's all the advantage that it needs . But yes it needs to be brought down in comparison in lines of the scorp . Scorp is tall and narrow , STRV is short and flat . This things looks right in between the two . Depends on the model when they are finished testing and adjusting . 

 

It had worse camo than the Strv but slightly (SLIGHTLY) better cam than the Skorp, I'd be happier.  That and hitting the reload.  Bigger gun needs to fire slower than the Skorp's 128.  The combination of those two is going to be really bad, if unchanged.  But, hey, that's why they have the test server (to ignore us until we complain about it so much that it is never sold again and plagues the servers forever OR they pull a 268 v4 on it - betting on the former, since this will be a limited release premium versus a tech tree tank).

gmotoman #57 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 19:40

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As long as SU-130p blows up as nicely as the SkorpG when I hit it with HESH I have no issues.

docroberts #58 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 19:40

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Sep 25 2018 - 12:35, said:

 

It had worse camo than the Strv but slightly (SLIGHTLY) better cam than the Skorp, I'd be happier.  That and hitting the reload.  Bigger gun needs to fire slower than the Skorp's 128.  The combination of those two is going to be really bad, if unchanged.  But, hey, that's why they have the test server (to ignore us until we complain about it so much that it is never sold again and plagues the servers forever OR they pull a 268 v4 on it - betting on the former, since this will be a limited release premium versus a tech tree tank).

 

LoL Exactly lol 

docroberts #59 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 19:42

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View Postgmotoman, on Sep 25 2018 - 12:40, said:

As long as SU-130p blows up as nicely as the SkorpG when I hit it with HESH I have no issues.

 

I was thinking Arty might be getting one shots again instead of stun with 20 mills of armor . 

Avalon304 #60 Posted Sep 25 2018 - 22:14

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View PostTrauglodyte, on Sep 25 2018 - 10:06, said:

 

Edit:

 

On your test's camo values, is that with or without a net?

 

Aside from that, the new Russian tank beats the Skorpion out on:
 

  • Camo
  • Alpha
  • Reload
  • DPM
  • Soft Stats
  • Top Speed
  • Power/weight
  • Tank traverse speed
  • Turret traverse speed
  • Gun elevation

 

The Skorpion has:
 

  • Dispersion (means nothing)
  • Aim time

 

Looks like the fears were a given.

 

I mean... Gun elevation is pretty irrelevant.

 

The Skorpion has higher power to weight (which is better). (and with the same terrain resists the Skorpion will still accellerate faster).

 

The relaod is so minor it literally doesnt matter.

 

The DPM is mainly from the high alpha.

 

Top speed is mostly irrelevant as neither tank regularly reaches it, especially off road.

 

The difference in softs stats is so minor it literally doesnt matter.

 

The traverse speed difference are minor, and not really relevant.

 

And the 130PM doesnt have a full turret, which is obnoxious in any tank, but especially in TDs. The 130PM is still just a worse Skorpion that gets an alpha bonus.







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