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Option to play battles with no artillery


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ruar #1 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:23

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We all know artillery is a hotly debated issue.  People love it, people hate it, and the class as a whole has been changed and redesigned more than any other class in the game.  Ultimately there will never be a happy medium simply because artillery works so much differently than every other class.

 

I think in the end the only way to keep both pro-arty and anti-arty players happy is to have the option to play matches with no artillery allowed in the que.  People who dislike artillery will be able to play against tanks without all of the animosity and frustration that artillery brings to a match.

 

People who like artillery will be able to play matches with artillery and this would even allow artillery to be made more fun since the people in those matches are the ones who have no problems adapting and adjusting to the artillery mechanic.  More than likely the cap will have to be removed which will allow even more artillery into the match which will cut down on the wait times for people who do enjoy artillery.

 

I haven't been able to find any downside to having a toggle option.  After all, the pro-arty people have assured us that the anti-arty are a minority of the players so there won't be that many people in the no-arty que.  In fact, the wait times will probably be longer since so few people actually dislike artillery.

 

So having a toggle is win/win for everyone involved.  



Iron_Soul_Stealer #2 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:26

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Can I have an option to play with no tank destroyers..?

 



ruar #3 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:34

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View PostIron_Soul_Stealer, on Oct 01 2018 - 02:26, said:

Can I have an option to play with no tank destroyers..?

 

 

I think some TDs are definitely needing some work, but for the most part the downsides to TDs make them balanced.  Making armor relevant by reducing penetration in general and balancing ammunition so high pen rounds do lower damage would go a long way to balancing TDs.  

 

However, if you could please have a TD discussion in a separate thread and try to stay on topic with this one.



HOTA_CHATON #4 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:38

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View PostIron_Soul_Stealer, on Sep 30 2018 - 19:26, said:

Can I have an option to play with no tank destroyers..?

 

 

This is a more worrisome and problematic issue than arty has ever been.  TD's are the new arty and need a very severe nerfing.  

dunniteowl #5 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:39

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I wouldn't mind a No Fast LTs, or No ELC-25s, or No I Don't Care Which Unit, so that I can tailor my game to my needs and desires instead of just playing the damn game the way it was designed.

 

Oh, wait.  No I don't.  I don't care.  I play the game and the game includes all these things, like them or not.  When I played old school board Mech Warrior, some folks complained about Clan Tech being OP or unfair.  You know what I told them?

 

It's in the game.

 

 

Same thing with what this game comes with.  You want a different game, go find one or make one.

 

 

I am so very tired of this attitude by so many that think, "I think the game should be like THIS, so I want it like that and if they don't then the game is wrong."

 

Now, OP, I'm not saying you are doing this.  Well, you are sort of, actually.  You are at least genteel about it.  So many others simply cannot hack the game as it stands and -- for some reason inexplicable, decide the Developers must have been wrong about what they intended and demand -- yes DEMAND -- it be changed.

 

I wish all those threats of, "If this won't change then I won't play no more," were acted upon.  The game and these forums would be so much nicer if folks could simply agree on this:

 

The game came this way and it's designed to be played this way.  

 

 

OvO



ClydeCooper421 #6 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:41

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TDs still require direct line of sight. arty does not. 

 

 

l'd actually like to see how long the queue times would actually be if there was a no arty option. 

 

It more than likely wouldn't work but i'm still curious as to how long exactly it would take



Iron_Soul_Stealer #7 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:42

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Sep 30 2018 - 20:38, said:

 

This is a more worrisome and problematic issue than arty has ever been TD's are the new arty and need a very severe nerfing.  

 

Yep, at least somebody here got my point.



ClydeCooper421 #8 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:43

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View Postdunniteowl, on Sep 30 2018 - 17:39, said:

I wouldn't mind a No Fast LTs, or No ELC-25s, or No I Don't Care Which Unit, so that I can tailor my game to my needs and desires instead of just playing the damn game the way it was designed.

 

Oh, wait.  No I don't.  I don't care.  I play the game and the game includes all these things, like them or not.  When I played old school board Mech Warrior, some folks complained about Clan Tech being OP or unfair.  You know what I told them?

 

It's in the game.

 

 

Same thing with what this game comes with.  You want a different game, go find one or make one.

 

 

I am so very tired of this attitude by so many that think, "I think the game should be like THIS, so I want it like that and if they don't then the game is wrong."

 

Now, OP, I'm not saying you are doing this.  Well, you are sort of, actually.  You are at least genteel about it.  So many others simply cannot hack the game as it stands and -- for some reason inexplicable, decide the Developers must have been wrong about what they intended and demand -- yes DEMAND -- it be changed.

 

I wish all those threats of, "If this won't change then I won't play no more," were acted upon.  The game and these forums would be so much nicer if folks could simply agree on this:

 

The game came this way and it's designed to be played this way.  

 

 

OvO

 

There are a lot of issues with this post.  

 

 

If you're favorite game has some issues, why in the heck wouldn't you try to get it fixed? 

 

 

l point back to the submachine gun meta in fortnite. They weren't necessarily broken, they were just bleh and Epic games listened to their community, nerfed them a bit, and fortnite is as successful as ever. 

 

moral of the story, when you listen to your playerbase, you create a successful, popular game that makes people want to come back. 



Haruhi_Suzumiya_ #9 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:46

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View PostHOTA_CHATON, on Oct 01 2018 - 02:38, said:

 

This is a more worrisome and problematic issue than arty has ever been.  TD's are the new arty and need a very severe nerfing.  

 

Yes, we should also nerf the heavy tanks with 750 and 650 alpha like the E-100, 60TP, and Obj705A while we're at it. We can't allow them to shoot us while they're in front, can't we?

VooDooKobra #10 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:48

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 18:34, said:

 

I think some TDs are definitely needing some work, but for the most part the downsides to TDs make them balanced.  Making armor relevant by reducing penetration in general and balancing ammunition so high pen rounds do lower damage would go a long way to balancing TDs.  

 

However, if you could please have a TD discussion in a separate thread and try to stay on topic with this one.

 

i think he is on topic because if you get an option to play without a particular class why cant i get one for classes i dont want to face.  like you said win win right?  boxes to limit who your opponents are in general a bad idea 

 

the idea of limiting another players ability to find games because you do not approve would only damage the game.  why not have a button so someone can see only players above a certain PR,  after all the sbmm crowd would love that right?  maybe mods/no mods.   lets see how long we can push the queue up before the game dies

 



Iron_Soul_Stealer #11 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:49

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View PostHaruhi_Suzumiya_, on Sep 30 2018 - 20:46, said:

 

Yes, we should also nerf the heavy tanks with 750 and 650 alpha like the E-100, 60TP, and Obj705A while we're at it. We can't allow them to shoot us while they're in front, can't we?

 

Again, can I have the option to play without the people that are always asking to remove a class of armour in this game..?

 

I thought my point was made 'loud and clear' earlier, but I guess not...:facepalm:

 



dunniteowl #12 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:55

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View PostClydeCooper421, on Sep 30 2018 - 19:43, said:

 

There are a lot of issues with this post.  

 

 

If you're favorite game has some issues, why in the heck wouldn't you try to get it fixed? 

 

 

l point back to the submachine gun meta in fortnite. They weren't necessarily broken, they were just bleh and Epic games listened to their community, nerfed them a bit, and fortnite is as successful as ever. 

 

moral of the story, when you listen to your playerbase, you create a successful, popular game that makes people want to come back. 

 

No, you are quite mistaken.  You're arguing that if you wanted, you could make the developers of Monopoly change the game because the player base asks for it.

 

No.  Doesn't work like that and, from the changes that have been made, it's not based on what you LIKE, it's based on whether or not the game is detracted by it, irrespective of your feelings.  

 

So, this game was designed this way on purpose, with Arty.  Deal with it, because that's what WG has told you as well over the years.  It's in the game.  Deal with it and, sure, if there's a bug, a glitch, something game breaking, report it.  But it is NOT ABOUT YOU FEELING IT SHOULD BE THIS WAY.

 

Never has.  Never should be.  You don't like something bad enough and enough people agree, then maybe some changes can be made.  That said, this is one of those things that folks piss and moan about with no real factual argument that proves their point.  Not according to the Devs. They clearly indicated REPEATEDLY and CLEARLY that arty is here to stay.  They put it in ON PURPOSE and they WANT IT IN.  It's their game.

 

See where I'm coming from?  It's not about YOU.  It's not about ME.  Its the game as designed.  Play it or not.

 

 

OvO



ruar #13 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:56

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View PostVooDooKobra, on Oct 01 2018 - 02:48, said:

 

i think he is on topic because if you get an option to play without a particular class why cant i get one for classes i dont want to face.  like you said win win right?  boxes to limit who your opponents are in general a bad idea 

 

the idea of limiting another players ability to find games because you do not approve would only damage the game.  why not have a button so someone can see only players above a certain PR,  after all the sbmm crowd would love that right?  maybe mods/no mods.   lets see how long we can push the queue up before the game dies

 

 

Well, mainly because no other class of tanks has had so much controversy over the years.  Check any forum where they talk about WoT and you'll find thread after thread about how much people dislike artillery.

 

Then there's the fact artillery acts like no other class in the game.  Which creates a lot of animosity since it can shoot from behind cover which is something no other class can do.

 

I mean, I understand you think that by trying to dilute the player pool more you are making some kind of counter point to why artillery shouldn't be excluded, but your argument requires ignoring the fact artillery has created so much controversy.  Literally years worth of threads describing how much artillery is hated by thousands of players.

 

So yeah, nice try but the point still stands that because artillery is such a unique class and has created so much controversy it only makes sense to allow players the option to not play against a thing often described as "cancer".  Perhaps in a few years when there are tens of thousands of threads talking about how much TDs are different from other classes and how they are cancer then we could consider adding them to the opt out list.



Iron_Soul_Stealer #14 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 02:59

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View Postdunniteowl, on Sep 30 2018 - 20:55, said:

 

No, you are quite mistaken.  You're arguing that if you wanted, you could make the developers of Monopoly change the game because the player base asks for it.

 

No.  Doesn't work like that and, from the changes that have been made, it's not based on what you LIKE, it's based on whether or not the game is detracted by it, irrespective of your feelings.  

 

So, this game was designed this way on purpose, with Arty.  Deal with it, because that's what WG has told you as well over the years.  It's in the game.  Deal with it and, sure, if there's a bug, a glitch, something game breaking, report it.  But it is NOT ABOUT YOU FEELING IT SHOULD BE THIS WAY.

 

Never has.  Never should be.  You don't like something bad enough and enough people agree, then maybe some changes can be made.  That said, this is one of those things that folks piss and moan about with no real factual argument that proves their point.  Not according to the Devs. They clearly indicated REPEATEDLY and CLEARLY that arty is here to stay.  They put it in ON PURPOSE and they WANT IT IN.  It's their game.

 

See where I'm coming from?  It's not about YOU.  It's not about MEIts the game as designed.  Play it or not.

 

 

OvO

 

^..Yes, this.

 



dunniteowl #15 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:01

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Arty plays differently than any other piece in the game, so it should be removed is basically the biggest and most idiot laden argument used.

 

The Knight in Chess moves like no other piece on the board.  NONE.  No other unit can just jump over others and take an L turn, besides the Knight.  For all that, though, the knight is not that powerful WITHOUT the other pieces on the board, all of which operate on the same principles of straight line only travel, either diagonally or along a row/column.

 

I know!  Let's get rid of the Knight!  It's not like the other units and so violates the game physics.

 

What utter crap, however, this is exactly what is being proposed with regard to arty.  It operates differently.  Oh MY GOD it should be removed it's so wrong to have that!

 

What utter crap.

 

 

OvO



ruar #16 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:02

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View PostIron_Soul_Stealer, on Oct 01 2018 - 02:59, said:

 

^..Yes, this.

 

 

Please note that my suggestion does not remove artillery from the game.  It just allows a minority of the player base to have more fun because WG has never been able to make artillery both fun to use and fun to play against.

nuclearguy931 #17 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:02

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I want the option to play without lights.

ruar #18 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:03

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View Postdunniteowl, on Oct 01 2018 - 03:01, said:

Arty plays differently than any other piece in the game, so it should be removed is basically the biggest and most idiot laden argument used.

 

The Knight in Chess moves like no other piece on the board.  NONE.  No other unit can just jump over others and take an L turn, besides the Knight.  For all that, though, the knight is not that powerful WITHOUT the other pieces on the board, all of which operate on the same principles of straight line only travel, either diagonally or along a row/column.

 

I know!  Let's get rid of the Knight!  It's not like the other units and so violates the game physics.

 

What utter crap, however, this is exactly what is being proposed with regard to arty.  It operates differently.  Oh MY GOD it should be removed it's so wrong to have that!

 

What utter crap.

 

 

OvO

 

I really don't understand why you are so upset.  The knight is balanced in a way artillery never is, but you seem to ignore that fact.

 

And honestly, what do you lose out if I choose matches that don't have artillery.  Can you at least answer how it effects your game play.



Iron_Soul_Stealer #19 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:03

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View Postdunniteowl, on Sep 30 2018 - 21:01, said:

Arty plays differently than any other piece in the game, so it should be removed is basically the biggest and most idiot laden argument used.

 

The Knight in Chess moves like no other piece on the board.  NONE.  No other unit can just jump over others and take an L turn, besides the Knight.  For all that, though, the knight is not that powerful WITHOUT the other pieces on the board, all of which operate on the same principles of straight line only travel, either diagonally or along a row/column.

 

I know!  Let's get rid of the Knight!  It's not like the other units and so violates the game physics.

 

What utter crap, however, this is exactly what is being proposed with regard to arty.  It operates differently.  Oh MY GOD it should be removed it's so wrong to have that!

 

What utter crap.

 

 

OvO

^..Outstanding 'chess/wot' analogy!  ...:rolleyes:

 

 



VooDooKobra #20 Posted Oct 01 2018 - 03:07

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View Postruar, on Sep 30 2018 - 18:56, said:

 

Well, mainly because no other class of tanks has had so much controversy over the years.  Check any forum where they talk about WoT and you'll find thread after thread about how much people dislike artillery.

 

Then there's the fact artillery acts like no other class in the game.  Which creates a lot of animosity since it can shoot from behind cover which is something no other class can do.

 

I mean, I understand you think that by trying to dilute the player pool more you are making some kind of counter point to why artillery shouldn't be excluded, but your argument requires ignoring the fact artillery has created so much controversy.  Literally years worth of threads describing how much artillery is hated by thousands of players.

 

So yeah, nice try but the point still stands that because artillery is such a unique class and has created so much controversy it only makes sense to allow players the option to not play against a thing often described as "cancer".  Perhaps in a few years when there are tens of thousands of threads talking about how much TDs are different from other classes and how they are cancer then we could consider adding them to the opt out list.

 

yet there has been a lot of controversy about seperating skill levels and mods.  so my question stands why shouldnt they get the fair play they want in a game like those who dont want to play with arty?  games do not in general put limiters in their code unless the player can create their own server.  since that is not the case i dont see them working here. 

 

after all it is win win with limiters right?


Edited by VooDooKobra, Oct 01 2018 - 03:08.





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